Using figure-8 ribbons as drum overheads / room mics

[dubrichie]

alrighty,

i just got a pair of Coles 4040 and would like to hear from others who have gotten good results with figure-8 ribbons as drum overheads and room mics.

i have very little experience with ribbon mics to date, these are my first actually.

i mainly record various flavours of rock / roll but do the occasional folk / trad / choral work.

assuming a good room, good kit and good player, what kinds of placements / techniques have you found give good results and for what kinds of sound / vibe?

would you go for a lot of gobos around the kit to tighten it up, or let it breathe as much as possible?

any particular concerns with ceiling height / shape, beyond the universal that is?

would you pair one ribbon with a nice LDC? omni? cardioid?

i also have a pair of u87s (InnerTube Audio modified) and a pair of Gefell M300s on hand in case anyone has stumbled upon a particularly great combination of these kinds / styles of mics for the stated drum micing applications.

i really just want to plug them in and hear how they handle a good set of cymbals and a chunky, sweet, smackin' snare drum!

thanks,

[Matt_Weston]

I've got a pair of Peluso ribbons that I've used as drum room mics quite a few times.

I tend to go for a spaced pair about 4 feet apart and 4 feet up from the ground. They seem to be great for picking up the drums so I like to get a little more cymbal in them so that I can add some compression to them and make the cymbals seem to last longer and sound thicker and less harsh.

I tried them as overheads once but didn't like them as much as my 2247LEs. But for the right song I'm sure they could bring about a nice texture.

Matt

[MBishopSFX]

While I have put the Coles to lots of other uses, I never cared for them on drum overheads. I much prefer the AEAs or Royers in that spot. DPA 4006s, too! The Coles just don't seem to have the detail I'm looking for as a drum overhead.

Figure-8s are quite useful in controlling pickup from elsewhere on the kit. They reject side pickup far more and with less "color" than a cardioid in the same spot. The active opposite side of the mic pointed up into the room can add some nice size to the kit sound. Adjusting the distance between mic to cymbals also adjusts the relative amount of room into the mix. Think of it as a wet/dry mix.

[warhead]

How low the ceiling is, and how that ceiling / room might be treated would dictate preference for me.

War

[andychamp]

I recently did the following setup:
- Royer 121 over the snare (about 2 drumstick-lengths)
- Neumann103 by the floor tom
- Mojave MA200 front of kit

The room was quite big, with the ceiling about 4-5 meters high. No gobos, nice air.
I panned the MA200 center, the 103 left and the 121 right, which made the kit realy sound wide.
I particularly loved how I could heap loads of high shelf onto the 121, so the difference to the 103 wasn't as pronounced, and it never got harsh. Plus it lifted out the hihat a bit more, in a nice way. Ribbons are cool for adding air.
After that I decided that I need a second 121!

[artnoiser]

Originally Posted by warhead

How low the ceiling is, and how that ceiling / room might be treated would dictate preference for me.

War

Same here.

Had to record a band in a smaller, pretty live room with puh-retty low ceilings, used 2 ribbons as overheads, and later found myself organizing a weeklong party (just me tho) just to figure out what the hell to do with the cramped room sound in the overheads.

artnoiser

[dubrichie]

thanks for the replies,

anyone else?

[u b k]

Originally Posted by MBishopSFX

The Coles just don't seem to have the detail I'm looking for as a drum overhead.

i've found the 4038 is exceptionally cool in mono if i'm deliberately going for a darker, vintage drum sound... think 60's vintage more than 70's.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[warhead]

UBK, I know the 4038 was used on X and Y and Z drummers back 4 decades ago, but I don't get its place in the market now. I tried to like the 4038, but every single source I tried it on during tracking, another mic (R84 if I was going for ribbon sound) beat it every time.

The 4038 couldn't handle loud guitar cabinets, was woofy on the bottom and added its own bit of distortion.

On voice, the 4038 had a bit of a bump seemingly right smack dab in the sibilant range, yet lacked the extended top of the R84. It peaked lower in the highs and rolled off quicker up top in other words. A tad woofy whereas the R84 would get BIG on the bottom in a smoother way. A small beef, but the highly magnetic grill casing would pull my Stedman filter onto it causing a big "klang!" when I least expected it.

On drums they were fine, but still lacked the extended top of the R84. The low end was a tad more exaggerated on the 4038 and it delivered more kick etc. That bump I perceived in the 4k-7k- range pronounced the bell on the ride a bit more vs the R84, but then lacked any sheen any further up top.

So I gave up on the 4038.

I believe you own R84's also, what am I missing about the 4038?

War

[Grizzly]

I think you can't beat the 4038 in some very specific cases, like recording a 5-strings banjo (truely amazing on that !), a nylon stringed guitar (if you need it to sound larger than life), a bandoneon, sometimes cymbals or horns, all of those in close-miking...

I never use them as room mics - in that case I'd rather take the R-84...

Anyway, my two 4038 get used very often here, although I'm aware that you've got to like their unique sonic personality pretty bad before you decide to pick them up in the mic locker !...

Olivier.

[joninc]

you guys are nuts.

the coles is easily the best drum room mic i have ever heard. hands DOWN.

agree with the mono overhead thing too - very beatlesy.

yeah it's dark and i love it for that reason. less midrangey than a r121 in the room.

great with loads of compression - brings out the kick and snare and doesn't kill me with cymbals.

also on some vocalists it rules. pairs really nicely with a tg2.

great on abrasive strident stuff - strings, tambourines, glock/xylophones.. i don't like it much on electric guitar - go figure.

[marty lester]

i tried 2 royer 121 mics in Blumlein (sp?) config in front
of the drums...from about 10 feet out to about 2 feet
out, around 3 or 4 feet up from the ground. very
very nice. very very roomy though...as expected.

since i only have 1 royer now, i've been using 2 414's
in fig-8 the same way...which is nice but not quite
as nice as the 2 royers. i bet the Coles would rule
also...wish i had a couple.

marty.

[nobtwiddler]

I use a Royer SF-12 over the drums all the time.
For lots of different music, and it's just is amazing~!

And then another SF-12 as a room mic.

They usually are my first choice for both positions.

[richgilb]

Ribbons seem to have got more popular since the last post on this thread.

I am thinking of buying a pair the cheaper of 2" ribbon mics with the hope that I will get a bigger smoother drum sound than I do with condensers. But there is still not too much talk of ribbons as drum overheads.....am I part of a resurgent trend?

Are there tons of people out there now using ribbons as drum overheads?

[cubehead]

Originally Posted by nobtwiddler

I use a Royer SF-12 over the drums all the time.
For lots of different music, and it's just is amazing~!

And then another SF-12 as a room mic.

They usually are my first choice for both positions.

Agreed with Nobtwidler although I did learn it from him! hahaha.. my mentor! I will add that a pair of Beyer M160s are amazing although they are not figure 8.

[naturalkinds]

Just had great luck using a mono Royer as my crush mic about four feet in front of the kit in a mid-sized live room, aiming slightly downward at the drummer's head height.

Another engineer at our studio had a pair in Blumlein config, right above the drummer's head. That sounded great, too.

I don't see how you can go wrong with Royers for overhead or room purposes, whether you use them mono or stereo. (Especially in the context of other close-mic techniques.)

[naturalkinds]

Originally Posted by richgilb

Are there tons of people out there now using ribbons as drum overheads?

I work at a large studio, and can say that I have only seen a single kit miked this month without a ribbon on it. (RCA 77 seems to be the first choice for mono ribbon overhead miking.)

[Aaron Miller]

I really like the R-121 about 4-6 feet in front of the kit about 3-4 feet off the ground. It just kills in that spot in both rooms (one medium and live, one small and dead). Is this where you would be placing the 4038? How does it compare there?

[swinxx]

Now i just use a Rca 44 as mono overhead, a beta52 as bassdr and a beyer m160 as snare. For room a m/s akg 414 as stereo and/or a u47 as mono room.. Great

[MickeyMassacre]

I just did a session with coles as side address for drums, instead of overtop thru some neve 1073's a few weeks ago and am having fun with them.

[emptyman]

I did my last record using Fathead II's in Glyn Johns setup, with just the snare and kick close-micd.

Smooth and vintage-y; definitely NOT modern-sounding...but very cool man