How to get that big lo-end distortion sound on vocals?

[tobymusic]

Hey y´all!

Every once in a while, I find myself looking for something to help give vocals or a bass that big bottom end, sort or a low end distortion or exciter, just without actually increasing lo frequencies on that signal. Sort of that bottom end sound a vintage Neumann adds to a voice.

I actually have a hard time getting that effect using plug-ins. Amp simulators (i have Waves GTR and Amplitube 2) change the sound too much. I can get a signal into that direction using a UA LA610, but maybe some engineers out there have something better for that. I also have a TLA-100A and a Thermionic Culture Phoenix, but both sound too clean for such a "drastic" treatment. The Summit is pretty cool though, even in extreme compression, while the Phoenix makes a certain sound, but also gets a little dull.

Anybody knows what I´m talking about?

Toby

[tobymusic]

Oh - i forgot to ask - is anybody having experience using the Thermionic Culture "Culture Vulture"? I wonder how that works on the bottom end only?

Take care,
toby

[bhp]

Try the Summit TPA 200B mic pre.
by turning down the output and pushing the input
you go from clean to saturated to full on distortion.

I'm not sure of the exact sound you looking for, but this pre has a wide range of sounds.
It can then go into your TLA 100.

[Absolute]

The reason it is too drastic is because your probably applying it to the original signal

Apply it to a mult and carve out the part of the signal that is too drastic for you and mix whats good back into the original.

[Edge]

I use a bbe sonic max with big bottom (hardware) or try the waves maxxbass plugin (software)

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by tobymusic

Anybody knows what I´m talking about?

Toby

Its called a Pultec EQ with the right compressors mixed in through a Neve channel.

[jbuntz]

You can make a mic sound like a U47 with an amp sim? I've had it wrong all along! If you can hear distortion of a neumann, it's not functioning right.

[u b k]

i confess i have no idea what you're talking about. examples?


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[MichaelPatrick]

Aphex 230 has a bottom fattener that doesn't synthesize. It augments what's there, especially with male voices.

It's designed for radio. I use mine for voiceovers, audiobooks, radio spots, and so on. The phase rotator and big bottom are both useful. I don't use the gate but I have used the compressor, lightly. For spoken-word gigs it makes setup easy and gets consistently reliable results.

If anyone's ever used one on a singer I'd sure like to know how it worked out.

[Stiff]

Can you give us a proper example? Artist or song perhaps?

[tobymusic]

Originally Posted by jbuntz

You can make a mic sound like a U47 with an amp sim? I've had it wrong all along! If you can hear distortion of a neumann, it's not functioning right.

He he, a nice misconception! Of course you can hear "distortion" of a vintage Neumann, just compare it to a - say TLM103. Only that this kind of distortion is rather called "sound".

Thanks so far for the ideas guys, I really appreciate that. I should try the trick with the Summit preamp, I can imagine how it might work!

I wonder so far no compressors have been mentioned that would supply a strong color to the signal.

Toby

[tobymusic]

Originally Posted by Stiff

Can you give us a proper example? Artist or song perhaps?

It´s tough to give a proper example on a finished records, because you never know what stages the signal ran through until the final mix, but a good example might be the "duet" of Robbie Williams and Frank Sinatra - "It was a very good year" on his album "Swing when you´re winning". If you compare the sound of Robbie Williams´voice to that of Frank Sinatras´, you could get an idea of what I´m talking about. And both singers have probably been recorded using the same microphone - either an U47 or an M49.

Toby

[picksail]

There are a few people who know this technique. Those who do probably worked for/with this major mixer at some point.

From what I recall, it was quite simple; feed a Pultec into a TubeTech CL1B. Supposed to be a pretty euphonic style of distortion. I haven't witnessed it myself, but have subconsciously heard it on many of my favorite records.

For distortion, I'm a major proponent of 'abusing' the output gain of an 1176. I do a similar thing in the box.

Sometimes if I really want to dirty-up a vocal, I'll set-up a mono bus with a SansAmp and a Waves L1. I'll send the vocal out post fader to the distortion buss and add as necessary. If I need a little more 'low-end harmonic', I'll insert a Phoenix Dark Essence plug-in to the track.

[LarryClutch]

Picksail, would you mind explaining what you mean by "abusing" the output gain on an 1176?

Thanks

[FatStudio]

HAY

I use the culture vulture exactly for this.
I use it like this MIC-->NEVE 1072-->LA2A-->CV-->APOGEE A/D
The CV has a nice soft distortion that makes a vocal sound up front and close.

I sometimes use a SM57 for its body ,if EQed it can give a very good result !

[84K]

Originally Posted by FatStudio

HAY

I use the culture vulture exactly for this.
I use it like this MIC-->NEVE 1072-->LA2A-->CV-->APOGEE A/D
The CV has a nice soft distortion that makes a vocal sound up front and close.

I sometimes use a SM57 for its body ,if EQed it can give a very good result !

where do you run the bias on the cult vult?

[CorkyTart]

OhmForce Ohmicide. You can't get any better. Go try it... http://www.ohmforce.com/HomePage.do

[redrue]

Easy.

Get a Wunder CM7 and plug it into
a Seventh Circle N72... no EQ necessary.

enjoy.

[FatStudio]

Originally Posted by 84K

where do you run the bias on the cult vult?

I usually use T plus 0.6 (on the meter) or P1 0.4 on the meter .
The T is softer and fat ,the P1 is crunchier

[salomonander]

really all about the mic. and how you use proximity effect.
it also helps a lot if you run it through a 1073 - helped me at least.
.....it might also be just a little bit about the voice :-)
if you're trying plugins i suggest you look into the colortone. i had decent results abusing the v72 preset to get that low-mid harmonic distortion

[greyskull]

'puts flame hat on'

sansamp does the trick nicely if you blend it back in with the original signal,on an aux maybe with a filter to avoid phasing

[dubrichie]

im pretty sure i know what youre talking about.

ive gotten it in spades by driving the input of a 1073 WAY up into "grit" land, rolling back the output.

it was with a Brauner mic, VM1 i think (or else the VMA) and yes, using proximity to great effect.

singer also belting it out with gusto.

it can be very tempting to overdo it though, and if thats the kind of thing the artist is going for they will always want you to push it more, but be careful!

you dont want to find out later that the golden vocal take is just that bit to dirty overall to be rescued in the mix. no. we dont want that. but stranger things have happened.

[tobymusic]

Thanks for the ideas, guys.
The 1073 trick should work with the line input on a mix situation, too, right? I´ll try it next week, I have a 1073 DPD though, but it does have an output trim. We´ll see.

What about the LA-2A - any special ways to get tons of colour from that one?

Toby

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by tobymusic

Thanks for the ideas, guys.
The 1073 trick should work with the line input on a mix situation, too, right? I´ll try it next week, I have a 1073 DPD though, but it does have an output trim. We´ll see.

What about the LA-2A - any special ways to get tons of colour from that one?

Toby

The 1073 alone won't do it.

And the trick is not running it back through the line but through the trannies on the mic input if it needs a little neve girth.

There are no tricks to an La2a. It either works or it doesn't.

[dubrichie]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

There are no tricks to an La2a. It either works or it doesn't.

two knobs.

the loudness and the goodness.

apply discretion to taste!