SHOULD I BUY? - SSL 6000 E...for $22,000?

[theother]

Originally Posted by knightsy

Well that sounds like the best strategy for keeping them away while you mix!

Let a couple of farts out every now and then and it would be an easily controllable situation.

That might explain why mixes from smaller rooms tend to come out better!

[sawhorse]

for the record... My SSL 4056 E/G+ runs non-stop and costs about as much to run as my 'fridge. The HVAC for a well lit control room housing the SSL costs more, for sure.

[The Byre]

Concidering the 4056E pulls nearly 3kW and costs about 50 Cents an hour to run where you live, you must have a VERY big fridge!

[lb9000j]

maintaining will b a shit show, however, if u have a good relationship with a "real" tech, and have deep pockets, roll the dice my dude

[theother]

Originally Posted by lb9000j

maintaining will b a shit show, however, if u have a good relationship with a "real" tech, and have deep pockets, roll the dice my dude

why? what exactly is it that's going to cost you? a friend of mine has a 35 year old B-Series and has certainly no deep pockets.

You don't have to be technical minded to find a broken IC that sits on sockets and replace it. All it needs is a screwdriver. For example if the EQ doesn't work there are only handful of IC's on the EQ card. So you swap them around until you find the culprit. Job done. No tech needed.

The parts are so cheap it's no more than 1$ per IC, I guess $10 at the most. The best SSL tech in England charges about $600 a day. And a whole day is what I approx needed in a whole year.

I paid less than $1000 to have all my EQ cards recapped.

You can always have bad luck and blow a power supply etc. But they are also pretty cheap and quick to fix. Not different than on any other sub $10,000 desk.

I little more expensive it gets if you blow computer parts. But that never happened to me in the last 5 years.

It really depends how good you take care of the desk. Do you have it properly cooled? The machineroom protected against short power cuts, overheating etc?

Clean, dust-free PSUs and desk,... it all makes a difference.

What you have to get used to though with SSLs is that you come in in the morning and something isn't working.
If you are under a lot of pressure this can get to you. There is always something small that needs to be fixed. A lamp here, a switch cleaned there, an IC changed somewhere else.
The reward is an instant sound gratification and a smile on your face when your hear your mix.

[FastVinny]

Hey everyone,

Nice thread, enjoyed the read. I have been a Tech working on SSL's for 6 years now and agree with most of these posts. A couple days every 6 months ago just for maintenance and cleaning is everything and will keep any catastrophic failure away. Dust and heat are your biggest enemies, keep your stuff clean. Other than that you will have some caps that will go bad and maybe replace some op amps. If you buy a board that has seen better days and don't take the time to have a Tech bring it up to spec. before you start booking sessions (which is way too common) then yeah, you will have more issues with it. It's like buying a vintage car, all it needs is some oil and love from time to time. If you are spending $10k - $30k per year in repairs, this board was either not properly commissioned in the facility, or you have a hired a crook to be your Tech. You would be better off buying a second console to use for parts for that kind of money and have spares for everything.

@ Tino - it sounds like you did everything right when you bought your console. More people need to do the same thing and take their time.

Toft makes great products, don't get me wrong. But for just a few more $$$$$ you can get an SSL. 90% of all records that we hear from day to day were produced on these consoles and nothing can compare. Consoles have gotten ridiculously cheap nowadays.

The only problem with SSL's is the computer. It is getting harder to repair the cards due to the fact that many of the chip sets are obsolete and not manufactured anymore. If you do some research you will find NOS on ebay or other places on the Web but stocks will eventually run out. Thanks to ROHS, most of these components became obsolete by law. SSL stopped making their J Series consoles because they contained to much Lead in the PCB's and didn't meet Environmental standards. The computers are also not easy to work on. Having an experienced Tech is everything when coming to maintenance and repair. An EE will not have the "I've seen this before" knowledge that makes all of the difference. At this point you are basically paying someone to learn a new system before they can work on it.

All of that being said, best of luck to everyone. And SSL's are really not that hard to take care of, and make sure you are getting your information from a reliable source.

[Danny Zuko]

take the 22k and get a full hd protools setup with accel cards and such and a c24 or eqiv to run it...

Probably 10k all in tops, mac pro obviously :P

[Alex Breaux]

Originally Posted by Danny Zuko

take the 22k and get a full hd protools setup with accel cards and such and a c24 or eqiv to run it...

Probably 10k all in tops, mac pro obviously :P

Yeah... No.

[Umlaaat]

Originally Posted by Alex Breaux

Yeah... No.

lol

[knifetheglitter]

wow, way to bring it back from the dead. i actually did end up with a c24 and hd 3 accel. **** that board.

[Demonslave]

Originally Posted by bachconnelly

Hey ALL,

Just my .02 cents... I have worked at a University with an SSL 4000 series G+ and I will say that if you are planning on doing multiple projects simultaneously, TR is a MUST! Also, these desks will require a ton of work just to maintain their working condition. We have invested about 10,000-30,000 a YEAR to keep ours happy. Also, if the temperature or humidity isn't PERFECT about 90% of the time, they tend to fail FAST.

On the flip side, they sound awesome and are a hell of a lot of fun to work with! So its up to you. Personally, get some great outboard gear, great converters and great microphones and you will have a smokin sound without the console.

D-

Really 10-30k a year? That sounds off.....lol

[Demonslave]

I have seen ssl prices that are really high....too high.....and some too good to be true, I wouldn't pay more than 20k for an ssl without a computer.....i was about to buy 4040e with no computer.....it was only 20k and some yuts got to it before I did.,...just my .02

[Purple]

Originally Posted by knifetheglitter

wow, way to bring it back from the dead. i actually did end up with a c24 and hd 3 accel. **** that board.

I'm interested to know - is your C24 and HD set up in the room you were originally talking about? And is the business running sustainably? If the answers are yes then I'm guessing you made the right decision about leaving it. Any regrets or were you just getting a bit excited about the opportunity at the time?

[logicll]

I want a deal like that!!!!

[tko]

Originally Posted by FastVinny

Hey everyone,

Nice thread, enjoyed the read. I have been a Tech working on SSL's for 6 years now and agree with most of these posts. A couple days every 6 months ago just for maintenance and cleaning is everything and will keep any catastrophic failure away. Dust and heat are your biggest enemies, keep your stuff clean. Other than that you will have some caps that will go bad and maybe replace some op amps. If you buy a board that has seen better days and don't take the time to have a Tech bring it up to spec. before you start booking sessions (which is way too common) then yeah, you will have more issues with it. It's like buying a vintage car, all it needs is some oil and love from time to time. If you are spending $10k - $30k per year in repairs, this board was either not properly commissioned in the facility, or you have a hired a crook to be your Tech. You would be better off buying a second console to use for parts for that kind of money and have spares for everything.

@ Tino - it sounds like you did everything right when you bought your console. More people need to do the same thing and take their time.

Toft makes great products, don't get me wrong. But for just a few more $$$$$ you can get an SSL. 90% of all records that we hear from day to day were produced on these consoles and nothing can compare. Consoles have gotten ridiculously cheap nowadays.

The only problem with SSL's is the computer. It is getting harder to repair the cards due to the fact that many of the chip sets are obsolete and not manufactured anymore. If you do some research you will find NOS on ebay or other places on the Web but stocks will eventually run out. Thanks to ROHS, most of these components became obsolete by law. SSL stopped making their J Series consoles because they contained to much Lead in the PCB's and didn't meet Environmental standards. The computers are also not easy to work on. Having an experienced Tech is everything when coming to maintenance and repair. An EE will not have the "I've seen this before" knowledge that makes all of the difference. At this point you are basically paying someone to learn a new system before they can work on it.

All of that being said, best of luck to everyone. And SSL's are really not that hard to take care of, and make sure you are getting your information from a reliable source.

@ Fast Vinny

Hey there I have the only 4000G in NZ (ex Real World Studios) so techs are thin on the ground. What do you suggest doing every 6 months or so. Any suggestions are appreciated very much.

TKO
STL Audio.

[Showcase]

I feel there is much missunderstanding regarding the SSL´s

We have a 4056e/g w +G computer, running 24/7, we turn off all channels and leave the center section and computer running at night, as suggested by a well knowned SSL tech, the console stays alive, air conditioner doesnt have to work hard to cool the room down, saves alot of money!

And as mentioned before, there´s little you cant do yourself on the channels/center, its built like an old volvo Get the manuals, replace some caps here and there, IC, Op amps, some FET´s and 90% of the problems is solved.

What I would suggest doing once in a while is to bring in a SSL tech to check the center section, and to confim that everything is running ok across the console, at least 1 time a year! They always find something

We`ve spent a 1000 dollars a year on the console in maintainance incl SSL techs, and have no problems, so I dont understand why anyone have to put 10-30k a year, that is just absurd!

[phatbeatstudio]

I wish to god I read your thread before now. I saved for what seemed forever then when I finally had the cash I chicken sh#t out because of horror stories and people flat out scaring me away from buying a console. Easily the single biggest dumbest music decision I have ever made.

[cinealta]

I've been offered three different 4Ks between $20K & $25K (including cabling & patch bays) but all three had sketchy computer status. Either the computer was broken, missing or working but didn't have certain cards (eg "graphics" card?) What scared me was sourcing and procuring old SSL computers and the wide range in potential cost (up to $10K was one estimate I received). I already understood to estimate another $10K for commissioning (in addition to fixing/getting a computer).

[Showcase]

Just of curiosity, is it hard to find SSL consoles with working computers?

Dont think you should have any problems find one i.e here http://www.recycledaudio.co.uk/consoles00.php if you live in europe!

[Rune Rask]

Ive had my 4032E for about a year now, i have spent about 1000$ on tech work.
It was the power supply and some missing buttons here and there.
All cables and soldering ive done myself.

I paid about 27.000$ for the console which where in a really nice condition, and 2.000$ for the relocation, the movers had to pull the entire window frame out of the apartment I live in, and use a crane to pull it up on the 1 floor.

Getting that console is the best decision ive ever made in my music career, ive been ITB since 1998 were i startet up until 2011, so with all respect i know my way around the daw, with most tips n tricks.
There is absolutly no substitute for a real console, all "console" and "tape" plugins ive ever bought or tried, are mostly just adding noise and/or distortion,
which is just a cool mojo kinda side effect, you actually are trying to keep at a minimum on the board, the best thing about the console is the dynamic headroom you get, when you split your daw premix across the board.

Just love it

best

Rune

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by phatbeatstudio

I wish to god I read your thread before now. I saved for what seemed forever then when I finally had the cash I chicken sh#t out because of horror stories and people flat out scaring me away from buying a console. Easily the single biggest dumbest music decision I have ever made.

It's more that you didn't have the first clue about installing it. But hey...assuming you've still got the cash, go get one now - no-one's stopping you!

[sage691]

Originally Posted by Rune Rask

Getting that console is the best decision ive ever made in my music career, ive been ITB since 1998 were i startet up until 2011, so with all respect i know my way around the daw, with most tips n tricks.
There is absolutly no substitute for a real console, all "console" and "tape" plugins ive ever bought or tried, are mostly just adding noise and/or distortion,
which is just a cool mojo kinda side effect, you actually are trying to keep at a minimum on the board, the best thing about the console is the dynamic headroom you get, when you split your daw premix across the board.

Just love it

best

Rune

Yeap, yeap !

I feel exactly the same way about my Trident Series 80 after coming from ITB.

[Joe Haze]

Vintage/modern hardware (check)

Tape machine (check)

SSL (no, no , no) $$$$

[mata_haze]

once you go OTB you never look back...this is for sure!

Mattia.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by mata_haze

once you go OTB you never look back...this is for sure!

Mattia.

You are aware of just how many top, formerly lfac mixers are now working itb, right?!

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on which is best, merely pointing out that one viewpoint is strongly contrasted by others in the opposite direction.

[Joe Haze]

I think that "top" guys that work ITB mix albums tracked well, through a good fronted.. And how many actually mix all ITB? (no HW inserts).

[mata_haze]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

You are aware of just how many top, formerly lfac mixers are now working itb, right?!

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on which is best, merely pointing out that one viewpoint is strongly contrasted by others in the opposite direction.

I totally agree with you on this, we all have to fight with BUDGETS and TIME first and foremost, as music is not longer business but an elite job.
I just think that most people will react like me when they go from ITB to a desk and be surprised how differently your approach to the music is, I think in a more "organic" way, I am not longer looking at the screen, I am listening.
mine was more a "feeling" reply than anything else. each one has his own work flow and method.

I tend to agree with Joe Haze on the front end side of things, the producers/engineers I worked with they all use a LOT of gear in the recording stage.

Mattia.

[Rune Rask]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

You are aware of just how many top, formerly lfac mixers are now working itb, right?!

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on which is best, merely pointing out that one viewpoint is strongly contrasted by others in the opposite direction.

With all due respect for top formerly OTB mixers, i think most of them went ITB due to economic devaluation in the music business.
Some of them use summing boxes for stem groups, like the chandler mixer or neve 8816 ect.

[sage691]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

You are aware of just how many top, formerly lfac mixers are now working itb, right?!

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on which is best, merely pointing out that one viewpoint is strongly contrasted by others in the opposite direction.

Yeah, I know -- we've had this discussion before, haven't we ?

How many of those "top guys" came from a LFAC/OTB background ? 99.99999% ?

Yeah, so they have a reference point from which to make their ITB decisions. This is COMPLETELY overlooked by the ever growing cult of newbie "I can too because so and so is ITB now" know-it-alls who haven't a clue.

I have had the good fortune to sit down a few times with platinum credit engineers who were mixing a project ITB due to constraints. One in particular had a database of certain tracks from previous old sessions he would pull up for the specific purpose of reverse engineering that heavily processed OTB track in the ITB domain. I was stunned to see how there would be 6 different plugins inserted on a single (main vocal in this case) track, all being tweaked by ear to match that older OTB track. Without that older track he would have been driving blind and would have no starting point.

But it's different OTB on a LFAC with great hardware. That stuff teaches you what a great sound is and that's an education that is very, very valuable !

Again it's called a REFERENCE POINT ! Something that 99.999999% of people working ITB lack.

[psycho_monkey]

yesyesyes, I agree with most of this I was just playing devil's advocate to people making blanket statements.....

Some switch to ITB methods for economics...not all.

The point about knowing how to do it "analogue" to have a reference point is an important one.