Ribbon Mics - Any general "pros" and "cons" when comparing them to non ribbons?

[perx]

I am beefing up my relatively modest (so far) mic collection since the amount of vocal sessions will increase alot during the next couple of months.

I came across some ribbon mics and just thought I´d ask fellow Gear Slutz on the pros and cons of using ribbons compared to other types of mics.

Anything special to think about when buying one? Any characteristic sound that comes out of these or what?

I dont know much about ribbons, never tested one either - so appreciate any good feedback!

Thanks!

[Grizzly]

Just make sure you've got the right mic pre to fit your ribbons mics (a lot of gain required) but once you're set with that, you're gonna be in recording heaven, at least in my world...

I highly recommend the AEA R-84 for vocals recording purpose...

But I must admit I'm a freakin' absolute Ribbonslut (when I can, I record entire songs with nothing but ribbon mics) so take my advice carefully !...

Good luck,

Olivier.

[Recording David]

The first thing to notice with ribbons is that they do not have the hyped top end that condensers usually have. So initially they sound dull. But they take EQ like a champ in most cases. So my advice would be to make your decision after EQ rather than on a raw test. And yes, you need lots of quiet gain.

I love ribbons.

[mosrite]

My opinions:

A good ribbon will have a lush and rich midrange with a rolled off HF.

They can be perfect in some applications. I found them most useful in recording elements that might otherwise sound a touch harsh. They are stella on anything metal; Brass, cymbals, tambourines...

They sound fantastically regal on electric guitar amps too. Compared to a 57 they just sound more expensive.

They were also more forgiving on a sub standard acoustic guitar that I was recording.

Things I didn't like them on were close miced strings. They sounded a bit closed and congested.

Because of their natually mellow nature they can be perfect for anything where you require a softer focus.

To my ears they can lack a clarity that a good condenser like a Schoeps will give you (and a Schoeps wont have that nasty harshness or peakiness that a lot of condensers are guilty of).

Their fig.8 pattern can be very useful and is arguably the best pattern to use in a poor acoustic (as a result of the planes of null practically cancelling out parrallel surfaces). Beware though that a fig.8 pattern exhibits a wicked proximity effect (that can be used to effect of course).

I sold my Coles 4040 to get Schoeps condensers. I believe the Schoeps suits what I am recording more but, if money was no object, would have kept the 4040 and added to it.

Davids comment about the clean gain is very valid. They are gain hungry and will show up a sub standard preamp immediately.

since the amount of vocal sessions will increase alot during the next couple of months.

And on vocals they can give you something that no condenser can. A completely different vintage sound. Can work a treat and is a great addition to your colour pallette so if you already have a bunch of good LDC's then go for it.

[perx]

good feedback so far.. Keep em coming folks..

Another question: Which ribbon mics you prefer the most?

Since I subscribe to most magazines, I came across the Sontronics Sigma review in sound on sound.. Which (after I read the review) seem like a great mic to enter the "ribbon realm".

Keep in mind the work I do with microphones is 90% vocals. So any ribbon I get should be as well suited as possible to work with that.. ;-)

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Recording David

The first thing to notice with ribbons is that they do not have the hyped top end that condensers usually have. So initially they sound dull. But they take EQ like a champ in most cases. So my advice would be to make your decision after EQ rather than on a raw test. And yes, you need lots of quiet gain.

I love ribbons.

To build on that good tip.... as they ARE different sounding, perhaps why not do your EQ on the monitor side (or after the recording) because whats the point in using pliers to twist in eq to make a ribbon mic sound just like the condenser mics you are used to?

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by perx

Since I subscribe to most magazines, I came across the Sontronics Sigma review in sound on sound.. Which (after I read the review) seem like a great mic to enter the "ribbon realm".

They have very attractive appeareance, but if you want to enjoy a nice sweet sound, I would very much advise you to look at AEA range instead (for example). R88 (stereo) is great. So is R84. I had a pair of Sigma here to try - hence my sincere advice .... But YMMV, of course ...

[warhead]

Originally Posted by perx

Another question: Which ribbon mics you prefer the most?

Overall I have found the AEA R84 ribbon to excel at more things, adding just the right amount of vibe, and still possessing a sweet top end response as well. The voicings front to back are just so perfectly different from each other as well. Nothing has ever knocked it off the top of my mic collection, and I get to use a lot of ribbons.

The R84 kills in every way I want a ribbon mic to perform.

War

PS: Of course the best mic is always the mic that matches the source.

[D.A.S.]

Here is a good article by Bob Crowley of Crowley and Tripp microphones that should get you started into ribbon mics: Myths of Ribbon Mics
Personally, I am a ribbon man - Coles, RCA and C&T are my favorites. The latter especially because of their great tone and robust built.

[Zwinter]

Originally Posted by D.A.S.

Here is a good article by Bob Crowley of Crowley and Tripp microphones that should get you started into ribbon mics.

Speaking of Crowley and Tripp, their mics are excellent on vocals, especially the Studio Vocalist (as hinted by the name). I really like this mic because I think it has some condenser like qualities, especially with the top end. With some ribbon mics I find them too dark, which makes a vocal sound dull. However, ribbons also smooth out the mid-range of a harsh singer, so it's a trade off. The Studio Vocalist walks the line of being a bright ribbon, not as bright as a condenser, while still having the mid-range I am looking for. So I find vocal maintains the top end I am looking for so I don't have to EQ is later, like I do with other ribbons.

[PhatStax Drums]

In addition to high input GAIN, you need high input IMPEDANCE for ribbons, in my opinion.

The AEA TRP preamp has insanely high input impedance, which means it does NOT load the ribbon. Your ribbon will sound more like a condenser does because of this, in all the GOOD ways, without the harshness that some of them can exhibit (hey, I've never been lucky enough to have a Coles 4040 and then switch to a Shoeps...wow....).

The high input gain even improves the bass and treble response because the ribbon is not nearly as loaded by the preamp's impedance.

If you can afford another mic pre at around $700 for a stereo mic pre, I would very seriously consider that mic pre for your ribbons.


ALSO........don't hot plug your ribbon mics, ever. They'll probably be okay (as long as phantom isn't on when you do it), but even so it will at least gradually stretch the ribbon, best-case.

You don't hot plug ANY mics, anyway, right? Cool.

Phantom won't necessarily hurt the mic, AS LONG AS the mic cord and the rest of the circuit has not faults, but, just don't use phantom, it's not necessary and it can possibly magnetize the mic transformer (I forget about when that actually happens, it might only occur if there's a fault with phantom)...in any case, just avoid that and under no circumstances hot plug with phantom on.

If you happen to hot plug a few times, you'll probably be okay, if the mic sounds okay, then it's okay (although if the transformer was magnetized, the mic will sound different).

Don't carry the ribbon mic around/move it around, without a plastic bag or other CLEAN wind protection over it. You can even just put your hand up to and/or around the mic temporarily (they're pretty immunce from minor humidity exposure, the element being aluminum) for short, gentle moves around the studio, if you're too lazy or rushed to put a bag over it.

Most ribbons can take loud VOLUME, but not MOVING AIR....so...for example, you can mic a kick drum, but use a pop filter (and put it on a different stand so the filter doesn't vibrate the mic, learned that the hard way, duh), and still, don't use a ribbon mic real close to the moving air of a bass drum (as in inside the drum, some people have done this but I'd just use a dynamic for that or condenser) but outside the drum even fairly close, is cool, IF you use a pop filter.

Don't expose it to any surface with iron filings, the magnets will pick it up.

For the same reason, there can even be tiny amounts of iron in the atmosphere/particles.....keep the mic covered when not in use, certainly for any extended period (you probably do anyway).

Try to store the mic with the ribbon vertical to help prevent it from sagging and stretching (although I own some 50-year-plus Altec 639 ribbons that certainly weren't stored with the ribbon vertically, and they sound just fine).

[billgennaro]

if your main use for a ribbon is vocals you owe it to yourself to try the crowley & tripp studio vocalist. i find the r84 to be a great "all around-er" but the studio vocalist has that little presence peak at 4-5k that is great for vocals. its an more expensive mic, but its beautifully constructed.

bill

[PhatStax Drums]

I know this is the high-end forum, but on the other end of the spectrum, if you're on a budget (well under $200), the Nady RSM-2 has a large ribbon and, for the money, has a very nice, warm, fat sound that would probably be worth a try on vocals. Perhaps you might want to order Lynn Fuston's comparison CD and check some ribbons out for yourself on that. I'm not sure how many ribbons are compared on that.

Heresy perhaps in this forum but the RSM-2 has a larger, looser ribbon than the Royer R-121 and so might sound nice, big, and mellow compared with the Royer, and the artifacts that the internal windscreen introduces in the Nady actually can sound flattering as opposed to the increased realism of the Royer.

There are more and more ribbon models to choose from these days, though, just my limited 2 cents, and I'm by no means an expert on tracking vocals (or anything, really). Heh.

[perx]

ok, I managed to locate a dealer for the Crowley & Tripp mics..

Will take a closer look at that..

BUT.. What "worries" me is that not only from this forum but in other places - SOME people talks about the "handling" of the ribbon mics like they are the worlds most fragile babies..

I mean.. I usually handle ANY kind of high end pro audio with upmost care - but it seems there are so many things to think about when handling a ribbon that just that part could make it all a headache..

Are they really THAT Fragile? Are there really that many things to think about before plugging in and using a ribbon??

When reading on the Crowley and Tripp page for their vocalist Mic, it seems they claim its pretty solid.. (just an example..)

I simply dont want to get a mic if There are 20 diffirent EASY ways to have it messed up and broken....

The crowley and tripp vocalist mic sure look tasty though.. YUM! ;-)

[warhead]

Treat a ribbon with care at all times, but they're not as fragile as many make them out to be. I literally kicked my AEA R84 over on a boom stand, all the way to the ground...and it did not affect the mic. Not suggesting anybody try this of course, but man I figured I was done for and everything was OK. Wind blasts are your biggest enemy as mentioned above.

If you're looking for a condensor like ribbon, another alternative would be the new BLUE Woodpecker. Really amazing mic, but certainly not a classic ribbon sound if you're going for that.

War

[billgennaro]

ribbons are not that fragile, but with that being said, there are two very important criteria for their proper care.

1- never blow into a ribbon, always use a pop screen when singing into them, do not leave near open windows and doors. sudden air gusts and plosives can stretch the ribbon quickly.

2- either put them away when not in use or cover them with a plastic bag if you leave the mic on a stand. they have strong magnets in them that attract iron particles in dust. over time this can build up inside the mic and cause problems.

aside from that they are quite stable. at any rate, try and audition one before you make any purchase. take a little time to "learn" how to use them as they take a slightly different approach than condensers. its well worth it!

bill