Which Drum Bus Compressor for Pop & R'n'B writing studio

[Puresonics]

(Sorry for the short story)
We write all forms of pop music for the UK, the drums of which are either programmed samples or come from DFH or the like (ie. are not a live drummer)
The tracks we submit have to ‘sound like a record’
So we’re gradually building our gear/skills to do that the best we can
So this is for ‘our use only’ rather than a commercial studio venture

We’re ‘deskless’ using ProTools on an HD3 Accel rig
I want to use as much analogue as possible when tracking and on inserts of our Aurora 16 when mixing, rather than staying ITB

So far our mix bus is
Apogee DA16X – Folcrom – Neve 1073DPD - Neve8803 – Smart C2

We’ve also got
Distressor x 2 (which sit on the drum bus at present)
MC77
CL 1B

Plus Lunchbox pairs of Eisen Neveish, E27 and 550b

We want a drum bus compressor with an attitude rather than transparency, plus a side chain input or side chain filter to let the bottom end through

So far our thoughts have run to
C2 (get another one)
API 2500
Drawmer 1968
Something Chandler – TG1 ? (but no side chain on Chandler stuff ?)

Please, before you suggest it, I’ve searched the forums (a lot) but what I read on High End is a lot of info for rock studios, and the other forums tend to go LoFi or plug-in. And I know you’ll say get loads in to check out and listen to. I will when I’ve narrowed the field some what.

So, any views on these or have we missed an obvious candidate to add to the arsenal

Thanks - Lee

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Puresonics

Please, before you suggest it, I’ve searched the forums (a lot) but what I read on High End is a lot of info for rock studios, and the other forums tend to go LoFi or plug-in.

I just have to say that i smile when i read comments like this.

The compressors have no preference on what style of music is put through them. It could be classical or jazz, hiphop or Progressive house.

Its really up to the user to maximize its use in what ever setting is called for.

Basically what i am trying to say is that they all can work for the job that you require. Its really up to you to choose if its to your liking for the given task. I think the only caveat is that one can work better for one song than another and if you only have one you are stuck.

These days i like using 3 different buss comps for getting a real nice analog"drumpush" when mixing in Ptools. One to fill out the drum tones and thicken it, another to give me the 100-150hz bump and if needed another to give me 60hz. Similar to what i would do on an SSL console.

And they are all different.

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I just have to say that i smile when i read comments like this.

The compressors have no preference on what style of music is put through them. It could be classical or jazz, hiphop or Progressive house.

Its really up to the user to maximize its use in what ever setting is called for.

Basically what i am trying to say is that they all can work for the job that you require. Its really up to you to choose if its to your liking for the given task. I think the only caveat is that one can work better for one song than another and if you only have one you are stuck.

These days i like using 3 different buss comps for getting a real nice analog"drumpush" when mixing in Ptools. One to fill out the drum tones and thicken it, another to give me the 100-150hz bump and if needed another to give me 60hz. Similar to what i would do on an SSL console.

And they are all different.

And you're not telling what they are?
C'mon Thrill!

[Puresonics]

Thanks for the patronising reply Thrill.

As you say, one can use various compressors, sometimes one after another, on many different styles of music.

The various styles of music have a character.

The various compressors have a character.

I am asking the good people of this forum, from whom I've learned a good few hints and tips to give me some pointers on compressors with a character that might be worth checking out, having outlined the job I wanna do with them in as simple terms as I could.

I thought that was reasonably simple.

If I'm wasting peoples time then don't bother typing replies

Thanks - Lee

[Jesse Skeens]

Hey Lee check out Steffen's custom built units at diygallery.de | gallery

Makes a really nice SSL4000 comp which is great on the drum buss for electronic stuff.

[MIKEHARRIS]

Lets make this easy...get a 2500 to start

[TinderArts]

The new Tonelux comps are quite something.

[nikkei]

Hi Puresonics

I totally understand your frustration...so I hope this will help.

After a LOT of searching and reading on this forum, I ended up picking up not one, but three stereo comps.

And honestly, they all kick butt.

I got the TubeTech CL2A, which is a GREAT comp for 2 mix bus as well as guitar bus. It's amazing how far you can push this thing without audible pumping too! Really shines on natural sounding mixes/songs.

Got the SPL Kultube...this thing is another monster. It's super easy to use, and can get things sounding really in your face thanks to the Tube Harmonics knob..don't use too much!

And last but not least, after alot of studying up on GSSL's and the like, I ended up picking up a Dramastic Audio Obsidian.
This is a ridiculous unit. I love it. The HPF button makes sure that the kicks and basses come through, so the comp can focus on the other material.

I've included a little 8 bar loop (Garageband drum loop) . I'm using a conservative setting on the Obsidian. It's 'on' every 2 bars. Starting from bar 3.

You can put it on your drum bus...But just imagine how this thing sounds on your Stereo Bus.

nikkei

Originally Posted by Puresonics

Thanks for the patronising reply Thrill.

As you say, one can use various compressors, sometimes one after another, on many different styles of music.

The various styles of music have a character.

The various compressors have a character.

I am asking the good people of this forum, from whom I've learned a good few hints and tips to give me some pointers on compressors with a character that might be worth checking out, having outlined the job I wanna do with them in as simple terms as I could.

I thought that was reasonably simple.

If I'm wasting peoples time then don't bother typing replies

Thanks - Lee

[nikkei]

Here's the apple loop. The one before is something I put together in Logic.




nikkei

[u b k]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

The compressors have no preference on what style of music is put through them.

but i'll bet YOU have a preference on which compressors you use for the job at hand .

to the OP, of the ones you listed, the 2500 is gonna have the most character and excitement. don't get another C2; in fact, use the C2 on the drum/bass buss and the 2500 on the whole mix, you'll probably like the tone of your song a lot better.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Roc Mixwell]

I like a pair of Crane Song Trakker’s for this kind of application. I have found that they are incredibly flexible for R&B and Hip-Hop production, as well as just about every other style of music. You can achieve many different types of compression. I like the optical or “clean” setting if my goal is for more transparent tone. This setting works amazingly well for vocals and GTR’s. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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The Trakker can be very aggressive as well, throw it in the Vintage VCA mode and adjust the attack to about 100 ms with a steeper knee shape. I like to use it on the drum buss to control the overall dynamics and to give the part some personality. There is something that it does to the snare that just makes my jaw hit the floor every time. It works really well for back up vocals as well. There is an endless amount of settings that will work for vocal applications. <o:p></o:p>
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I find that is really works well for the close drum sound, also know as the “DEAD” drum sound. It does something magic to the overheads. It is one of those units you would have a hard time finding a source that won’t sound awesome at any setting.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
The Trakker is linkable and does have a side chain input, which is very useful for creating that Fairchild 670 type texture. You would use an EQ to cut 80 cycles with a Q about an octave wide to increase that bottom end “girth”. <o:p></o:p>
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Mixwell<o:p></o:p>

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Puresonics

Thanks for the patronising reply Thrill.

As you say, one can use various compressors, sometimes one after another, on many different styles of music.

The various styles of music have a character.

The various compressors have a character.

I am asking the good people of this forum, from whom I've learned a good few hints and tips to give me some pointers on compressors with a character that might be worth checking out, having outlined the job I wanna do with them in as simple terms as I could.

I thought that was reasonably simple.

If I'm wasting peoples time then don't bother typing replies

Thanks - Lee

I wasn't being patronizing.


I was just trying to state that no one compressor is the best, the fattest or the right one for a drum buss,guitar buss,vocal buss,mix buss etcetera.

And you prefacing by saying that most of the posts here are generally from the views of rock or lofi engineering has no context or meaning. Engineering is engineering and you coming up with good sounds depending on the genre is based on your skills not the gear. A C2 will work for both R&B and rock based on the skills of the person using it.

That's what i meant by the music has no choice or preference. That's all.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by patrox247

And you're not telling what they are?
C'mon Thrill!

Does it really matter?

It changes from song to song, production to production.

I am not a "future" guy. People who buy gear for things they will do in the "future".

I am also not a "preset person" either. You know engineers that use the same gear in the same way all the time, for the same sounds for every song or production.

I am more of a "moment" guy.

I live and work hard to maximize and capture the feeling that day, in that instance, for that song, or how i feel in that "moment".

The gear i've amassed over the years is this kind of mentality. You know gear that helps me get from point A to point B the easiest, funnest and in style in the "moment".

The people in this business that made the biggest impact on me were those kind of people. And these are the people that have made those classic timeless albums. Its not a popular way to work these days since the Mcdonalds way of working seems to dominate things. You know bring the project in and turn it out right away with a bland & faceless sonic stamp.

[noizemakerz]

Im using a API 2500 and it is pretty versatile, Used it on smooth R&B and Edgy Reggeaton with great results.

[redroom]

I love the SSL buss comrpessor for RnB Pop music but my favorite is the Audio & design Compex.

Another compressor I really like is the Oram Sonicomp really smooth sound

[robot gigante]

Drum bus compressor with attitude? Chander Zener. It has a sidechain switch to sidechain out the lows w/ switchable frequencies. You can use it for different things but everyone I know that has heard it on drums has really loved it for that application.

I agree not to get another C2- give yourself some options.

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Does it really matter?

It changes from song to song, production to production.

I am not a "future" guy. People who buy gear for things they will do in the "future".

I am also not a "preset person" either. You know engineers that use the same gear in the same way all the time, for the same sounds for every song or production.

I am more of a "moment" guy.

I live and work hard to maximize and capture the feeling that day, in that instance, for that song, or how i feel in that "moment".

The gear i've amassed over the years is this kind of mentality. You know gear that helps me get from point A to point B the easiest, funnest and in style in the "moment".

The people in this business that made the biggest impact on me were those kind of people. And these are the people that have made those classic timeless albums. Its not a popular way to work these days since the Mcdonalds way of working seems to dominate things. You know bring the project in and turn it out right away with a bland & faceless sonic stamp.

I am interested in how you use multiple buss comps in tandem to achieve the effect you're going for. I've never used buss comps to shape freq response on program material, and I am rather curious about your methodology as it relates to this technique.

[Pereds]

API 2500... its a killer...

[Puresonics]

Guys

Thanks for all your suggestions - I'll check out every one when getting my audition list together

Sorry for giving you a hard time Thrill !

Any more with any more ideas - bring it on

Regards

Lee

[rlsoundsystem]

try a 33609

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by Puresonics

(Sorry for the short story)
We write all forms of pop music for the UK, the drums of which are either programmed samples or come from DFH or the like (ie. are not a live drummer)
The tracks we submit have to ‘sound like a record’
So we’re gradually building our gear/skills to do that the best we can
So this is for ‘our use only’ rather than a commercial studio venture

We’re ‘deskless’ using ProTools on an HD3 Accel rig
I want to use as much analogue as possible when tracking and on inserts of our Aurora 16 when mixing, rather than staying ITB

So far our mix bus is
Apogee DA16X – Folcrom – Neve 1073DPD - Neve8803 – Smart C2

We’ve also got
Distressor x 2 (which sit on the drum bus at present)
MC77
CL 1B

Plus Lunchbox pairs of Eisen Neveish, E27 and 550b

We want a drum bus compressor with an attitude rather than transparency, plus a side chain input or side chain filter to let the bottom end through

So far our thoughts have run to
C2 (get another one)
API 2500
Drawmer 1968
Something Chandler – TG1 ? (but no side chain on Chandler stuff ?)

Please, before you suggest it, I’ve searched the forums (a lot) but what I read on High End is a lot of info for rock studios, and the other forums tend to go LoFi or plug-in. And I know you’ll say get loads in to check out and listen to. I will when I’ve narrowed the field some what.

So, any views on these or have we missed an obvious candidate to add to the arsenal

Thanks - Lee

Hi again Puresonics!

Compressor for drum buss with attitude, you're UK based like me so try the tfpro P38. Not over expensive in the UK and very good on the drum buss. I've got one, not great on everything but I do like it on the drums. Quite like it for tracking bass too.

Regards

Steve

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by patrox247

I am interested in how you use multiple buss comps in tandem to achieve the effect you're going for. I've never used buss comps to shape freq response on program material, and I am rather curious about your methodology as it relates to this technique.

It really depends on the tracks that i am given. I've noticed when working with sampled drums you need to spank them a little bit more ITB than you would OTB if you want them to have a real analog type signature. I am big fan of parallel processing and have worked this way for years.

What i noticed is lots of my clients are fans of the mid 90's hiphop drums(my favorite era as well). You know fat, hard, large all of the stupid adjectives. In order to get that sound you need a culmination of analog distortion and compression. Usually the console or tape gave you some already but we know when working ITB the console gives you none. So what i tend to do is build it accordingly in stages. First stage is the thick and wide stage, then the bump & knock stage and finally the bottomn stage. And like on the console carefully monitoring how much headroom i have when adding all of this up.

Don't get me wrong i don't always do this. I prefer when all that is needed is one stage. That usually means that sounds are there already. But for the days when you have to work it you do whatever it takes.

(And one last thing this works for rock,dance, and pop drums as well).

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

It really depends on the tracks that i am given. I've noticed when working with sampled drums you need to spank them a little bit more ITB than you would OTB if you want them to have a real analog type signature. I am big fan of parallel processing and have worked this way for years.

What i noticed is lots of my clients are fans of the mid 90's hiphop drums(my favorite era as well). You know fat, hard, large all of the stupid adjectives. In order to get that sound you need a culmination of analog distortion and compression. Usually the console or tape gave you some already but we know when working ITB the console gives you none. So what i tend to do is build it accordingly in stages. First stage is the thick and wide stage, then the bump & knock stage and finally the bottomn stage. And like on the console carefully monitoring how much headroom i have when adding all of this up.

Don't get me wrong i don't always do this. I prefer when all that is needed is one stage. That usually means that sounds are there already. But for the days when you have to work it you do whatever it takes.

(And one last thing this works for rock,dance, and pop drums as well).

So are you creating seperate mults which are individually treated?

[D.A.S.]

I love the Mercenary 1968 on my drum buss - it has such a lovely punch and is comparativly cheap.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by patrox247

So are you creating seperate mults which are individually treated?

Yeah basically.

Its just something i've done since the 80's and its always stuck. It allows you to compress/EQ things hard and stress certain parts of the sound without it affecting the main sound.

Of the 3 stages probably the middle stage for me is the one i use the most common.

[Puresonics]

OK guys

Tried the API2500 and sold it

Any other thoughts or options

Lee

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by Puresonics

OK guys

Tried the API2500 and sold it

Any other thoughts or options

Lee

I think I may have seen your ad in SOS. So the 2500 did not work out?

I think you should try the Neve 5043 and give it a go. I know others that have replaced the 2500 after trying the 5043. So you never know.