Surround

[Henrik]

So what do you guys think - will all records be mixed in 5.1 a couple of years from now?

[Killahurts]

All mine will be.

[mwagener]

mine too...

[Tim L]

What about being listened to in 5.1.... When do you think the majority of listeners will be 5.1 capable?

[strauss]

what do you think of the current state of the 5.1 mixes for pop, rock, r'n'b/hiphop?

The few releases I have listened to didn't impress me much for this type of music. It really lost the punch and impact I got from the stereo versions.

[Dave Martin]

Nah - a number of my clients barely understand stereo. Besides, they're are too cheap to buy the other speakers to hear a surround mix at home...

[studjo]

I'm really a bottom feeder but I wish I could install a surround set up and charge for it.
Michael did a great rock record in 5.1 and everytime I hear the stereomix I'm missing something.
Why should you loose punch in 5.1 - you can keep it "quite stereo" and only play occasionally with the surround speakers. I think we have a lot to learn doing surround but for me it would be a nice challange.

But I guess it takes a while till all consumers are going to put 6 speakers in their living rooms.

Jo

[strauss]

I guess we're still at the early phase of surround mixes like it used to be with stereo in the past when they panned the stuff all over the place.

I think the biggest problem with surround would be the translation. Most folks I know who own a surround system, (which is vey few compared to those who don't!), have a home cinema set with speakers the size of auratones and something like an 8" sub.
Even if they managed to put all the speakers in the same room, they could still easily mess it up with the bass managment, or the adjustmenst of the center or the surround speakers!

I think the consumers need some sort of an educational campaign from the record company's if they want this to pull off.
I sure would love to see more surround music production going on besides all those concert releases.

btw what rock record were you referring to which Michael did?

[studjo]

Michael sent me a copy of "Le Roi". I don't know whether the band is still called like that. I believe they had some troubles with the rights of the name.
As far as I remember it was planned and produced as a full surround porject from the get go. So it's really interesting to see a full surround project and not surround as an after-thought. The stereo mix is actually the "compromise" (although really good).

Jo

[jazzius II]

Originally posted by Henrik
So what do you guys think - will all records be mixed in 5.1 a couple of years from now?

No

[ProfessorFrink]

The reality is that most people are still listening to music in the car or on a system that can't even give a good STEREO image (i.e. computer speakers, boomboxes, whatever's piped over the loudspeaker at work etc.) Those with surround systems are unfortunately encaptured by low bass, pierceing highs, and the ridiculous overuse of panning in hollywood these days just to make the "surround" qualities apparent to people who really don't give a damn so long as Neo kisses Trinity in the end. Anyhow, i'm getting off topic. My point is, no, i don't believe the general public will appreciate or even notice records in surround any time in the near future.

...Not to say that we shouldn't try to do it anyways.

[DirkB]

Well, it is about the song and the music and even though most people are at least listening to stereo, how money are really listening to the stereo image? How many are actually hearing the great stereo panning things you did?

Joe average listens to the song, the singer and has a feel for the beat (or not). Surround in my opinion doesn't add much. It could become bigger if it becomes a affordable options in cars...

My guess is that in the next 5-10 years it's gonna be the norm for anything movie related (which it is already) and we're going to see more DVD-releases from artists (live concerts f.e.). But I think stereo is to stay...

Greetings,
Dirk

[Drumsound]

As cool as surround is, i don't see it becoming the industry standard for music. It can be a really cool creative tool. I had the pleasure of sitting at Michaels' console to listen to some of the Le Roi mixes and they arre awesom! I just don't see radio and end users embracing surround.

[studjo]

Originally posted by DirkB


Joe average listens to the song, the singer and has a feel for the beat (or not). Surround in my opinion doesn't add much. It could become bigger if it becomes a affordable options in cars...

But you could say the same about the mix quality. How many people realise that something is mixed with a good engineer - compared to a not so rich mix?
I got a cheap 5.1 system installed and don't like to watch movies in stereo anymore (the sound isn't actually better than the stereo system). The surround movies grab me emotionally more than a stereo movie.
Couldn't the same be applied to music?

Just thinking out loud - btw I don't believe that surround will take over the music market anytime soon.

Jo

[DirkB]

Studjo wrote:

But you could say the same about the mix quality. How many people realise that something is mixed with a good engineer - compared to a not so rich mix?

Well, people have been treated with great mixes all their lives, so they've grown accustomed to it. Joe Average cannot appreciate a flabby low-end or harsh highs or a singer that's out of tune or ...

But even that seems to be changing. Now, with a lot of kids listening to mp3's, rough mixes on demo's with serious problems are accetable, cause they're used to hearing it sounding crap through their laptop anyway. Ok, this is not Joe Average, but it's there...
People will always appreciate a great sounding record, I just believe 3 more speakers isn't adding much, although it can be great.

My guess is stereo is going to be the music norm untill a real breaktrough in speakertechnologie happens. F.e. intelligent speakers that adjust to the room and the position of the listener.


Greetings,
Dirk

[Henrik]

Thanks for chiming in, all of you!

The reason I'm asking is because I'm just about to start building a small commercial studio. I had a studio design consultant in, and he thought the smallish control room I had drawn was OK for stereo, but impossible for surround. Problem is, the whole place isn't too large, and if I make my control room larger, it make the recording space rather tiny.

Anyway, don't know about how the market looks in your countries, but I must tell you a thing that pretty much made the decision for me: Yesterday I got some junk mail from a large TV/radio/hifi chain. When I browse through it, I realize that for very little money, one could get a set of surround speakers, and a DVD player that also could play CD's (and even CDR's with mp3s). This was just a little more than one of those horrid micro stereos.

So why wouldn't people get that setup, and both use it for watching films and playing records? And if they start playing records on that system, why wouldn't there be an increasing demand for 5.1 mixes of music as well?

I don't know. But I think I will go with the larger control room. The musicians will just have to keep their guitars out of each other's faces...

Best to all,
Henrik

[DirkB]

Henrik,

I think going for the larger control room is a goof idea anyway. Nowadays, in a overdubb situation, only at guide- or basic rythmtracking several musicians are playing together, after that, it's mostly one performing.

If the control room is crammed, with al the equipment etc. and multiple people, that's bad. Most part of the time you're gonna spend is in the CR, so make it as large as possible/sensible. For the live room, I would make it large enough so you can track drums and get some room mic's happening...

Good luck,
Dirk

P.S. what are the dimensions of CR and RR you're planning?

[Henrik]

Originally posted by DirkB
Henrik,

I think going for the larger control room is a goof idea anyway. Nowadays, in a overdubb situation, only at guide- or basic rythmtracking several musicians are playing together, after that, it's mostly one performing.

If the control room is crammed, with al the equipment etc. and multiple people, that's bad. Most part of the time you're gonna spend is in the CR, so make it as large as possible/sensible. For the live room, I would make it large enough so you can track drums and get some room mic's happening...

Good luck,
Dirk

P.S. what are the dimensions of CR and RR you're planning?

Hey Dirk,
Thanks for your input!

Well, I mostly see myself recording "real" bands, and I'd very much like to offer the possibility of recording all at once. This is something that is really missing in other studios that hold a similar price point to where I want to be. Plus I really like to keep the musicians out of the CR... But I think I'll be able to make things work after all. The CR will be about 4x4,7 m (12x14 ft, yanks), and in my original plan it was 3x4 (9x12 ft).

The RR is sort of a really whacky triangle and with the large control room it will have roughly the same dimensions, only divided by 2.

Cheers,
Henrik