High end 2 channel A/D converters

[dannywild]

Of the following 2 channel A/D converters which is the best and worse and why?

MYTEK STEREO96 ADC

APOGEE ROSETTA 200

APOGEE ROSETTA AD 2

BENCHMARK ADC1

LUCID AD9624

Please provide specific examples of experiences you may have had with these converters.

[NathanEldred]

No one owns the Rosetta 200 or the Benchmark ADC-1. They don't exist except as prototypes or S/N 001.

[deft_bonz]

Originally posted by dannywild
Of the following 2 channel A/D converters which is the best and worse and why?

MYTEK STEREO96 ADC

APOGEE ROSETTA 200

APOGEE ROSETTA AD 2

BENCHMARK ADC1

LUCID AD9624

Please provide specific examples of experiences you may have had with these converters.

sorry i can not help u out grudge

i've just seen the rosetta 200 and it seems to be the right thing for me. so i'll have a new candidate for conversion:

i'll test in sommer following converters:

mytek stereo adc & dac
apogee rosetta 200
benchmark adc-1 & dac-1

i think the apogee will be the cheapest within these 3 converters. hoping for 2k $ . but if the one of the others will sound in my ears much better i'll go nevertheless for one of them.

maybe i can listen to them all at the frankfurt musikmesse.

kind regards deft:::

[brownmouse]

i believe lavry makes a 2 channel a/d and d/a for around $2500. that would get my vote.
joshua

[PRS1JAZZ]

Lavery..... thats it and thats that!

[Boogle]

Originally posted by PRS1JAZZ
Lavry..... thats it and thats that!

Leaving out the Lavry is like a fav pres list with no neve. (No diss intended- I had never even heard of Lavry till I joined this board )

Dannywild I'm not sure if you're in the market for ad's or not, but if so try please Lavry. Then decide.

Simply sonically beautiful

[dannywild]

Yes I am in the market so any more feedback would be awesome.

[Plush]

I wish one could "rate" some converters for you. Unfortunately, it is impossible. For one thing it kind of depends on what features your need and what type of music you're working with.

I wouldn't call too many of your choices, "high end" by the way.
Dont leave out the two channel versions of DCS and Prism.

I don't feel that Apogee or Lucid is high end, for example.

Demo the units in your price range and then you can compare and contrast at your place.

[ISedlacek]

Originally posted by Boogle
Leaving out the Lavry is like a fav pres list with no neve. (No diss intended- I had never even heard of Lavry till I joined this board )


Simply sonically beautiful

I was tempted to think of Lavry blue as a second AD DA to get a different flavour, but I am somehow discouraged by their too ascetic design. I for example don´t understand the missing simple headphone input in 2 ch DA ... if it costs 200 $ I would understand it more... How can you use it then for a normal work ? (recording playbacks, monitoring through headphones etc.)
So I may end with Mytek again (which sounds excellent)

[dannywild]

Originally posted by Plush
I wish one could "rate" some converters for you. Unfortunately, it is impossible. For one thing it kind of depends on what features your need and what type of music you're working with.

I wouldn't call too many of your choices, "high end" by the way.
Dont leave out the two channel versions of DCS and Prism.

I don't feel that Apogee or Lucid is high end, for example.

Demo the units in your price range and then you can compare and contrast at your place.

For features I think the only requirements are balanced inputs and coax and optical outputs at a 24bit 96k rate. The type of music is acoustic. Can you explain how the type of music effects the conversion process? What is the best way to demo these units?

[jdunn]

As a generally accepted rule (by most people), Apogee is popular for pop/rock/alternative/hip hop types of music because they have a punchy sound, and you can afford lots of channels. People who record classical, jazz and other acoustic music however, do not find them to be as transparent as the other units such as Mytek, Lavry, Benchmark, etc...

And a seriously high end 2 channel A/D is something like the Weiss ADC2, Prism Dream AD2, or the Lavry Gold Reference. I currently use Mytek 8 channel units and they are fantastic for the price. I may check out the Lavry blue soon though.

[ISedlacek]

Originally posted by jdunn
I currently use Mytek 8 channel units and they are fantastic for the price. I may check out the Lavry blue soon though.

Me too. I will certainly post the results of Mytek-Lavry comparison

[De chromium cob]

Originally posted by ISedlacek
I was tempted to think of Lavry blue as a second AD DA to get a different flavour, but I am somehow discouraged by their too ascetic design. I for example don´t understand the missing simple headphone input in 2 ch DA ... if it costs 200 $ I would understand it more... How can you use it then for a normal work ? (recording playbacks, monitoring through headphones etc.)
So I may end with Mytek again (which sounds excellent)

That tells me they wanted to put all the money you are paying for the converter into the converter and not into a headphone amp. Thats a plus in my book...

[jdunn]

Me too. I will certainly post the results of Mytek-Lavry comparison

Ivo, does this mean you've already ordered a Lavry like a true gear slut would do? Let me know. I'll be very interested to hear your comparisons and opinions.

Just a guess, but the Lavrys might be a bit less 'wild' than the Myteks, similar to your Millennia/DACS comparison. I'm just speculating though, based on what I've heard from Lavry fans.

[deft_bonz]

Originally posted by brownmouse
i believe lavry makes a 2 channel a/d and d/a for around $2500. that would get my vote.
joshua

hmmm maybe that should also go for a hearing test...

you may build up a 2 ch adda from their modular blue series for 2500$

http://www.mercenary.com/laen44wi2cha1.html

[ISedlacek]

Originally posted by jdunn
Ivo, does this mean you've already ordered a Lavry like a true gear slut would do? Let me know. I'll be very interested to hear your comparisons and opinions.

Just a guess, but the Lavrys might be a bit less 'wild' than the Myteks, similar to your Millennia/DACS comparison. I'm just speculating though, based on what I've heard from Lavry fans.

No no, I am just thinking about it. Now I am selling one stereo Mytek to a friend and thus a need for another 2ch AD DA will arise (especially when I make all the changes only to be able to record 4ch in 96 kHz) . After a dust of my studio revolution settles down a bit I will think about it quickly. I could go for Myteks again (the trusted quality). But for a slight change I am very much tempted to go for Lavry (heard lot of good about them). Pity that people do not use them more often that we can hear direct comparison impressions.
Again said - if I live in the US where all this gear is easily available even to borrow, I would make Mytek- Lavry comparison today itself instead of writing many speculations in similar discussions.
In our area no one even heard of Lavry.
I asked Nathan Eldred - he knows well both Mytek and Lavry Blue. He thinks (although he loves Mytek) that Lavry sounds simply plain better
If it is as you say (DACS/ Millennia) - it would be actually great, since I love kind of sweet, decent way for the things to sound (that´s why I rather changed my DACS for Millennia). Although Mytek sounds fantastic, I really sometimes feel its tiny bit "wild" high frequencies (similar as with the mentioned DACS/Millennia comparison).
So maybe LAvry could be great for me. ANd I will still keep Mytek.
I just looked at the Lavry user manual. It seems one has to be M.Sc in electronics to set it working ?

Or shall we rather go for the Gold series ? There is actually a nice discount offered if you go for 2ch AD DA: $13500 only.

[matucha]

One thing when buying lavry as my only AD/DA converter concerns me. What to use as monitor attentuator/headphone amp. I've read numerous threads about this, but I'm far from clever what is suitable... I mean what fits the chain in the terms of quality (lavry> ?attentuator? > Adams)?

[ISedlacek]

Ouch ... I have not thought about that. How to adjust monitors volume when there is NO volume knob on the DA ?? Any ideas ?

[Boogle]

ISedlacek it seems like certain feature are gonna be quite important for you. Lavry won't supply solutions for those but there probably are other convertors that may.

There is a 'simplicity' & focus to the Lavry gear. (man you wanna see the back panel-no labelling and even the switching system left me scratching my head), but they make great ad/da converters. but that has been said many times before.

I hope you get a result.

[jdunn]

Ivo - There are lots of options for external headphone amps and monitor controllers. NHT Pro makes a passive monitor controller for around $150. It's just a little black box with a big volume knob. No headphone amp.

I use a DACS Headlite 4 channel headphone amp. Fantastic! There are cheaper ones, but I don't know if any of them sound this good.

If you need both monitor control and headphone amp in one box, check out the Coleman Audio stuff. I've heard nothing but good things, and they're not too expensive.

By definition, a D/A converter does not have to include a headphone amp. This is really just a convenience thrown in by the manufacturer. I mean, it is very convenient, but I personally would rather have an external unit anyway.

Lavry's just plain better than Mytek, huh? Anyone need a Mytek ADC 8x96 w/ ADAT, or a DAC 8x96? Right now, bring it, bring it!

[ISedlacek]

Originally posted by jdunn

Lavry's just plain better than Mytek, huh? Anyone need a Mytek ADC 8x96 w/ ADAT, or a DAC 8x96? Right now, bring it, bring it!

Jason, borrow Lavry blue from some dealer tomorrow, try, compare and let us know ...

[jdunn]

Well, I could rent a dB Technologies unit from DMT Rentals in Burbank. I don't know if it's 100% identical to the Lavry, or if Dan made any subtle changes (besides the name). I'm pretty darn sure they're the same.

They also have EMM Labs, but at $6,600 for an 8 channel unit, I don't know if that's something you're even considering. I don't think they make a 2 channel unit anymore.

Right now my voice is totally shot, so any vocals would be impossible. I'll try next week perhaps.

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by jdunn
Well, I could rent a dB Technologies unit from DMT Rentals in Burbank. I don't know if it's 100% identical to the Lavry, or if Dan made any subtle changes (besides the name). I'm pretty darn sure they're the same.

I'm sure the old DB is going to be an excellent piece, but will probably be different from the blue series (for better or worse not sure). You probably want to contact Dan directly about it. If you are interested in a blue series, you should test that otherwise your results could be misleading.

[jdunn]

After careful consideration, I've decided to stick with the Mytek ADC 8x96. The Lavry doesn't have dual-wire capability, which I need for the Fairlight Merlin to record at 88.2/96 khz.

Also, I've been getting compliments on stuff that was done with the Myteks, and I think they sound really good myself. I'm sure the Lavry is excellent, but why spend more money and lose dual-wire capability when I'm happy with the sound of Mytek?

The only other option is Genex, but I heard it doesn't sound as good as Mytek, so why bother. Maybe I'll rent a dB Gold sometime to use on my main stereo mic pair, just to try it out.

[hollywood_steve]

The only other option is Genex, but I heard it doesn't sound as good as Mytek, so why bother

Would you mind elaborating? I've always heard talk of Genex as being at the top of the "second tier" with only the EMM Labs & Prism level converters noticeably better. Where did you hear of Genex being "less worthy" than Mytek?

FWIW, I have a Genex recorder with 8ch of onboard PCM and DSD converters. Ignoring the DSD converters for now, the PCM converters sound much nicer than anything else that I have heavy hours on. (Apogee, Lucid, Swissonic, RME, etc.)

Anybody else have negative experience with Genex (or have heard negative comments)?

[jdunn]

Steve - Didn't mean to be rude with that comment. Someone did a comparison between Mytek and Genex, a friend of a friend, here in LA. He was apparently surprised. and thought the Mytek sounded better. Also, another person mentioned that the Genex sounds a little harder than the Mytek.

I have recently read comments where people were very happy and surprised with their Genex GXA8, which someone said was a little better than the ones built into the Genex recorders.

But it was the friend of a friend's comment that made me not bother to listen to the Genex. Perhaps we could get together sometime and listen to both.

I think it's in the analog stages that Mytek probably wins out. The Genex uses more stock off the shelf components than the Mytek from what I know. Mytek uses a really good op amp which I can't name here, but I can tell you that it's not something most pro audio designers are generally hip to.

One reviewer mentioned having problems with an early Genex GXA8's analog input stage. It's probably been improved since then, but still..... makes me wonder. I know a lot of people use Genex for classical music though, so they must sound pretty good.

Speaking of reviews, one thing noteable in Bobby Owsinski's Surround Pro review of the Mytek ADC 8x96 is his mention of it's lack of upper midrange etch. Upper midrange etch is exactly the term that Dr. Fred Bashour used in his PAR review to describe the sound of the Genex GXA8.

For the record, neither of these are the converter that was mentioned as having an attenuated upper midrange in another post.

[genericperson]

you need to include weiss.

[dannywild]

Do any of these converters have any noticable levels of latency?

Originally posted by genericperson
you need to include weiss.

[jdunn]

I can only speak for the Mytek and Crane Song HEDD, which are the only high end converters I've owned. There is no latency.

As far as I know there is no latency in any high end converters. Genex does mention a no-DSP design, but I'm not sure they're referring to latency. Even with the HEDD process engaged on the Crane Song, it's still 100% real-time I think.

Oh, and I did mention Weiss on page 1 of this thread. Their prices have gone up even more though, it's just too much I think. I'm considering a Weiss DAC, but it's $5,500 for the 96 khz stereo unit with a discount, so we'll see.

[Jim Williams]

The Mytek's 8X96 opamps are Linear technology LT1358's. They are a dual buffered current feedback opamp with low noise, low offset, high gain bandwidth and 600 v/us slew rate. They have very low midrange distortion and no slew limiting. The A/D chip is the crystal CS5396. You guys need to look under the hood to see what you're buying here and pay less attention to the marketing.

Say, if you can whip up a simple + - 15 and 5 volt power supply you could get the newest adc from crystal, the cdb5381 eval board. I have one on order from Insight electronics and it only costs $150. It gives -110 db thd and 120 db dynamic range with toslink and s/pdif outputs. Drop some of those LT chips in there and.... you just might beat the big boys and put some cash back in your pocket at the same time.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades