Shadow Hills Equinox Clips

[pigpen]

So I have recieved countless pm's regarding the Equinox and the different settings. Awhilw back I posted a tune that was sent though each. It was a hip hop tune. I have been asked about the differences in a rock setting.
So here you go...a hard rawk song that is fairly in depth and pretty dense.

1. Iron
2. Nickel
3. Steel

While this is not a guessing game, I would however like to know what you prefer.
So off you go.
Enjoy

[pigpen]

2.Nickel

[pigpen]

3.Steel

[pigpen]

View after view and not one comment....either:

A- I suck and you hate the song regardless of the setting
B- They all rawk your ass so hard, you can't even decide
C- You can't hear the difference and do not want to admit it
D- ... all the above?

[Dan Kennedy]

OK, I'll play.

Iron, smoothest, but thwumpiest, highs rolled and a midrange fogginess

Nickel, clear, bright, crisp, with a tightness to the bottom end.

Steel, nice full round bottom, nice grit to the middle, high end pretty good.

I think I'd pick steel for this one.

Not my kind of music, but well done.

[Audio Hombre]

the differences are so subtle, that it's hard to find words for. chris cornell's new band, kewl! thumbsup

[True North]

Wow - is it possible that from Iron-Nickel to Steel, each mix was progressivly brighter ? (In an extremely subtle way) That is really the only thing I was able to differentiate and even then I am not sure. Might be me pre-associating each transformer to a pre-conceived sound.

Thanks for posting those clips

[not_so_new]

Great tune!!

On my laptop speakers I don't hear any difference at all...



Well, on second listen... "Steel" is a little brighter, I notice more on the vocals. I should not comment because I am listening on crap but the song rocks and the mix kicks ass. I would probably go for "Iron" all in all but I wouldn't kick any mix out of bed. lol

Who is the band and what else can you tell us about the rest of the chain?

Thanks dude.

[krid]

My favorites : Steel and Iron.

On which one did you mix through ?

[chandlersonic]

Originally Posted by krid

My favorites : Steel and Iron.

On which one did you mix through ?

I'd like to know this too, and also it'd be cool if you could post a clip without the equinox.

[pigpen]

Well....I am just happy it as not A.

I will attempt to answer all the questions here in the order they were asked/commented on. Thanks to all who checked it out and for digging the song!

Dan-I heard pretty much the same as you.

Audio-Call him if you know him....I am in!!!! It would certianly rawk harder than what he is currently working on....and I am a huge fan of his!

True- Same mix. But the Nickel and Steel are certainly brighter.

New- Funny, I used the exact same saying to my assistant while we were trying to choose which to use. The band is Duramater...a fictional band if you will. It consists on me on guitar and bass. My assistant and fellow Gearslutter on drums. And another one of my session cats on vocals. I am working on a few of my tunes for the first time in 4 years finally. Fun stuff.
The mixing chain consists of assloads of compression (Swedien please put your fingers in your ears. ) The Portico 5043 is on the drum buss, Fatso on the guitar buss, 76's on the vocals, Distressor on the snare? All thru the Equinox ing the SSL 384. Not one buss is getting hit super hard actually, just all working together....cept the vocals....I turned off the meters on the 76's when mixing this guy!!! Whisper to scream in milliseconds.

Krid- Iron is generally what I start on. Except on anything with huge bottm end, like hip hop or dance. Iron never works there, generally Nickel.
After listening to this in all 3, I may start to venture a bit on the rock world as well.

Chandler-To go ITB would be a huge PITA. If you look in the MP3 section, I did post a mix a short time ago that I did that on though. An ITB vs Iron I believe. Go check it out.
******//www.gearslutz.com/board/mp3-u...s-equinox.html

Again thanks guys. I am personally leaning toward Steel or Nickel....interesting considering I did this as a last second thing for some fo you guys to hear. So my wanting to share with you actually enlightened me!!!! I love it!

[dontfearthringo]

Hey y'all, it's Patrick the assistant... also drummer on this track....

Listening on headphones, and I must say that the Steel mix seems kind of brighter and thicker at the same time. The Iron mix has just a little bit of muddiness in the bottom to me... just a little, and I think that the Steel and the Nickel handle it in slightly different ways, both of them making it better with different qualities.

I gotta say, all of these sound good, and I wouldn't freak out if this was my record on ANY of them. If I had to choose based on my observations through the headphones, I'd go with Steel. There are qualities I would miss in the Iron mix, though...

I'd like to hear them on decent speaks and see what jumps out at me.

I particularly like the tom sound on the Iron mix! lite attack and lots of follow-through- boOOMP!!

[C/G]

I can't decide if I like steel or nickel better. All three sound good to me but S and N are my favourites.

Cool tune and the drums sound great.

Everything through nickel but the drums through steel would be interesting.

Thanks for posting Pigpen. You've rekindled my want for an Equinox, so damn you I guess.

[AMIEL]

Thanx Pip Pen! I know the intention of this thread is the differences between Iron ,Nickel and ...but do u have any thread where you can show the difference with and without the Equinox?

[pigpen]

I am leaning Steel myself at this point.
I gotta say this simply cuz I want to....
There were no soundreplaced drum sounds on this song....that is my Ludwig kit I bought thanks to 84K (26" kick) along with my old 50's Ludwig snare....oh and it doesn't hurt that Patrick kicks ass!!!! thumbsup

[AMIEL]

Thanx Pip Pen! I know the intention of this thread is the differences between Iron ,Nickel and Steel ...but do u have any thread(song) where you can show the difference with and without the Equinox? I mean internal bounce and the Equinox... that will give as a more complete prespective of what equinox can do.

Thanks and great song!!

[pigpen]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

Thanx Pip Pen! I know the intention of this thread is the differences between Iron ,Nickel and ...but do u have any thread where you can show the difference with and without the Equinox?

Look up a few posts and I put a link for just that!

[pigpen]

Originally Posted by C/G

I can't decide if I like steel or nickel better. All three sound good to me but S and N are my favourites.

Cool tune and the drums sound great.

Everything through nickel but the drums through steel would be interesting.

Thanks for posting Pigpen. You've rekindled my want for an Equinox, so damn you I guess.

You're welcome!

[dontfearthringo]

Originally Posted by pigpen

oh and it doesn't hurt that Patrick kicks ass!!!! thumbsup

Well... thankyverymuch!

This might be a good time to say...

Session drummer available!

Cheap rates! Housetrained!

[Tomer1]

Very subtle but i prefer steal.

[AMIEL]

I prefer Steel overall for the music its smoother and tighter ...but for vocals Nickel.

Iron was a bit muddy.

That is your preference?

And yes Iron, nickel and steel...sounds progressively brighter as true north said.

[Sabian576]

Dan Pretty much said everything I was thinking here too!


Nice Stuff Thanks!

[pigpen]

I wil repost the master once it gets back....I ended going with Steel FWIW.
Ttanks for keeping the thread alive! thumbsup

[pigpen]

I know this is old as hell, but I did get the mastered version back. Dave Collins mastered it, he made it sound killer to me.

[rodge]

sounds good mate!

i really liked the sound of the nickle, so very open and clean...

[The Digital Owl]

I know this is a really old thread but still VERY useful for those looking into summing devices (the Equinox being a great contender). Pigpen that song is absolutely awesome!

I fought with the initial "oh yes" of the iron but after several listens felt the steel or nickel actually dealt with the material better. It was close but it was the Steel for me (although slightly bright). I felt that it would be good to use steel for it's snap, but it was a shame to lose that iron 'wow' factor.

But hey it seems like mastering was able to do this.

Seriously at an awesome song. I hope you guys do an album!

Kind Regards,

The Digital Owl.

[riffmachine]

Cool thread. I've had an Equinox for a year and a half or so, and I've found that the transformer options are a great tool for shaping the sound. The issue for me has been that usually I have to make the decision which one I'm going to use when I first start mixing because they change the sound of the mix significantly. I've found that I like the Nickel the best because it seems the most open and has the most definition, followed by the steel. I like the Iron, but it seems to have slightly bigger and less focused lows for my tastes which can result in some mud. There's a lot of warmth there. If I've been mixing using the Nickel and then switch to the other transformers, it usually throws off the whole mix balance for me. If I've already done a bunch of automation, it's just not worth it for me. Still, it's great to have the option to switch things up with the shift of a switch. In all, I really like my Equinox, but I wish they'd tweaked the design a bit to allow more flexibility for monitoring of the external input more easily. Also, unless I've been missing something, it's frustrating that in Daw mode, I'm stuck monitoring the DAW only without the summing in the chain. I would love it if I could send all my tracks out of my DAW, through the summing unit, back into my DAW using Aux inputs, and monitor the DAW's output. That would allow me to get the summing benefits, hear how the A/D conversion affects things on the way back in, and do some more processing on the master and actually hear what it's doing to the track. As it is now, since DAW mode disables the summing, to get the summing benefits, I have to record a track into PT every time, then process and review after a bounce. The summing mode only allows you to monitor the summed signal that goes out of the Equinox, and if you want to use the Ext. Input option you're forced to sum, use D/A to go back into your DAW, use another pair outputs from your interface into your hardware, go into the Equinox for monitoring only. Since there is no output for the Ext. Input, you get your track sounding how you want it, then you have to change your routing in your DAW to record it back into your DAW and you can't monitor it anymore while recording that track. Not to mention you have to do another round of A/D in addition to the original DA/AD roundtrip from the summing. It just seems overly complicated to me and the extra conversion seems inefficient. I wish the external input could be patched inline with the summing, but since you only have 2 inputs on the back of the Equinox and no outputs for the Ext. Input, you can't do that. I'm sure this sounds a bit confusing, so sorry about that, but I've been trying to wrap my head around these limitations for a while and find a way to do what I want. So far, there hasn't been a perfect solution. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Maybe someone has a better method. - paul

p.s. - I suppose that in Sum mode, you could take your stereo sum out, go into your 2Bus hardware and A/D conversion and go into Pro Tools, but you can't monitor it since your 2Bus hardware is after what's being sent to your monitors in the sum mode. I suppose you could still do that, and then send that mix to your Ext. Input for monitoring purposes. The extra round of D/A conversion wouldn't actually be affecting the track, just your monitoring. The only problem is that way you can't switch back and forth from just summing, and summing with additional processing since your processing is patched into the sum out chain. So complicated

[RKrizman]

I don't use this unit, but it seems like it could be simpler than you think.

From the Vintage King site:

"The mode switch selects between microphone preamp and sixteen or thirty-two channel summing mixer. The mixer output also uses the selectable output transformers, thus allowing three different sounding mix buss options. The control volume section includes: Control room volume, 3 speaker selector, 2x two track inputs. You toggle between your DAW stereo mix, the summing mixer's stereo output, or just the 2x mic pre outputs. Dim, mute and talk back. Rear panel connections: sum buss inputs via DB25, in stereo pairs. Odd/left, even/right. All other connections via XLR."

So it seems like you can send your individual tracks or stems out of PT into the channels of the Equinox. Then sum them, choose your transformer output, and send it back into PT as the stereo summed track. Then in PT you add whatever processing you wish and send that out an A/D pair to one of the stereo inputs on the Equinox. Choose that input on the Equinox to send to your monitors and you'll be monitoring the complete signal path. Meanwhile, you perform a bounce to disc, choosing as your source the stereo channel that you've sent out for monitoring.

On the Equinox, at any point in your working session, you can toggle between what's coming out of the summing box itself and the finished, processed mix coming out of Pro Tools.

It seems simple. Are you or I missing something?

-R

[Retinal]

I like Nickel better for this song, actually, I usually like Nickel on my gamas as well 9 times on 10. That's in my head the SH sound. Love it

[riffmachine]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

I don't use this unit, but it seems like it could be simpler than you think.

From the Vintage King site:

"The mode switch selects between microphone preamp and sixteen or thirty-two channel summing mixer. The mixer output also uses the selectable output transformers, thus allowing three different sounding mix buss options. The control volume section includes: Control room volume, 3 speaker selector, 2x two track inputs. You toggle between your DAW stereo mix, the summing mixer's stereo output, or just the 2x mic pre outputs. Dim, mute and talk back. Rear panel connections: sum buss inputs via DB25, in stereo pairs. Odd/left, even/right. All other connections via XLR."

So it seems like you can send your individual tracks or stems out of PT into the channels of the Equinox. Then sum them, choose your transformer output, and send it back into PT as the stereo summed track. Then in PT you add whatever processing you wish and send that out an A/D pair to one of the stereo inputs on the Equinox. Choose that input on the Equinox to send to your monitors and you'll be monitoring the complete signal path. Meanwhile, you perform a bounce to disc, choosing as your source the stereo channel that you've sent out for monitoring.

On the Equinox, at any point in your working session, you can toggle between what's coming out of the summing box itself and the finished, processed mix coming out of Pro Tools.

It seems simple. Are you or I missing something?

-R

Yeah, I think you are right, and this is what I was trying to say about using the Ext Input for monitoring additional processing made in the DAW after summing. Basically, to be able to monitor this setup and use only 1 round of conversion on the bounced track I'd have to set it up like this: Be in Ext. Input mode and send tracks out of DAW - patchbay - into the Equinox for summing - stereo track out of Equinox - patchbay - into 2bus hardware followed by converter - into Pro Tools via Auxilliary Input track so I don't have to record it (if you have to record it, you can't also perform a bounce in PT with any additional processing) - process on master track if desired - set Pro Tools' Master track output so it feeds the Equinox's Ext Input - patchbay - Ext. Input of Equinox for monitoring - perform bounce. Now it seems so simple, and I think that would work. I'll have to try that and see. The only problem with this is that I can't switch my 2Bus hardware out of the chain (since it's patched into the stereo out of the Equinox) unless I want to use another round of conversion and use that chain as a plug-in insert in PT. I guess I was saying before that I wish the Ext. INput also had 2 outputs so you could essentially patch in analog processing and put it right in line with the summing if you wanted to, and then switch it in or out for comparison's sake. However, then there's the problem of not being able to monitor any additional processing after the sum in your DAW. Oh well. Regardless, there is some complicated routing I guess. Thanks for your help. - paul