What do you use when the singer sucks?

[bakerman]

Doubling the vocal is a good idea. With this one guy, I got loads of takes and attempted to coach his wild vocal. Then I cut it up, tuned and nudged and ending up using both vocals (comp'd lead and the comp'd double) set to 'full' volume.

It just worked and sounded alot more interesting.

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by bakerman

Doubling the vocal is a good idea. With this one guy, I got loads of takes and attempted to coach his wild vocal. Then I cut it up, tuned and nudged and ending up using both vocals (comp'd lead and the comp'd double) set to 'full' volume.

It just worked and sounded alot more interesting.

1 bad + 1 bad = 2 good? Sounds like fuzzy math to me.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[recorder2]

Hi,

Do this:

Shure 55SH --> V72/V76 style preamp or UA 610 or Neve 1073 [or clone], in descending order of preference

[escape]

I use politeness.

I find a polite way of saying, that he should sing his song on the way to the door.

[Jeff16years]

Originally Posted by peeder

OK if I were in your shoes i would probably go SM7, set flat, into a UA 610 cranked, into an LA-2A cranked. Comp enough takes for not only the one vocal track but also a doubling track, which you lowpass to remove annoying consonants and process differently and mix lower. Correct pitch, tasteful EQ/verb/delay, and bury in the mix by not making any space for the vocal. Consider doubling with another subliminal instrument like a synth pad or something to sweeten it if it's really awful.

BTW don't feel so bad about your voice if this is really for you.

i recently did exactly this (except a distressor instead of the LA2a) with pretty good results. Comped a track out of 9 takes and auto tuned

[fooman]

I've already replied here, but I have a bit more input.

I literally bought Melodyne for a band whose singer was THAT bad. It actually turned into a fantastic song with a really cool vocal.
How did he not realize he didn't sing that? Maybe he did, nobody questioned it.

[reco2222]

get rid of him now !

[jcc449]

I use "money"
(hire another singer)

[Convectuoso]

Originally Posted by tmcconnell

Some people would say its not your problem. Others would say find the the weak spot (its either tonality, texture, or passion/delivery) and fix it.

I would say become a vocal coach. almost anyone can sing. Find one note thay can sing and make them stay on it, and create movement with the accompanyment. Tell them to sing like they will die in 5 minutes - the last sound they will ever make. Sinatra had questionable tonality, mose allison has whitebread texture, and madonna had no passion (imo of course). It didn't stop them. The huge mistake is to think you can fix it with gear. Yes, a pitch correction can rescue the song, the blood and guts passion can transcend that. Only give up if they don't mean it.

At that point, you say - "GREAT TAKE! We're done now. What's your address, I'll email you the mix. man, you rock! Did you bring your checkbook? What's your myspace page?"

Not singling you out, but this is like he 3rd or so post after he has basically said (actually his first post spells out that it is actually him not a friend) and people are still acting like it's still his friend.

*I have only read to page 2 by now, and maybe someone already pointed it out, just funny is all*

[Convectuoso]

And what a lot of people are not telling you honestly:

If you can't sing that well, your ideas aren't probably going to that great. It's all well and good to stay in engineering land and think "Oh that vocal is so agressive and in tune now, I did such a great job". But if the actual melodies, lyrics and even the accent of their voice (some of my favourite singers have a distinct accent to their singing voice, mostly unrelated to their speaking voice) are horrible then nobody is going to give the track a second listen.

Just my $0.02.

[Jim Williams]

Tell him "great job, here's my bill".

Let someone else burst their bubble, you should get paid.

[Skip Burrows]

Originally Posted by DoMD

So I have this, erm .. friend ... yeah, and he's got a real lousy voice. Think Leonard Cohen doing a drunken duet with Rob Zombie. What would you put between him and the harddrive to make this abomination tolerable to an audience? Just your first instinct for a mic/pre/comp/eq chain. Got about a $5K budget. Not looking for miracles from any magic box, just to start with some good tools to try and polish this particular turd.

THE MUTE BUTTON! Works Every Time.

[Flying_Dutchman]

do the best for the record

just show some youtube live gigs from good artists, if they think its a studio job to make them sound really great

and tell that the homework has to be done
make contact to a vocal coach

they will come back
most of them ...

show your skills and people will trust
everything else isnt paying your bills the long road imo

[T.Johannsson]

Originally Posted by DoMD

So I have this, erm .. friend ... yeah, and he's got a real lousy voice. Think Leonard Cohen doing a drunken duet with Rob Zombie. What would you put between him and the harddrive to make this abomination tolerable to an audience? Just your first instinct for a mic/pre/comp/eq chain. Got about a $5K budget. Not looking for miracles from any magic box, just to start with some good tools to try and polish this particular turd.

time is all you need.. take 30 - 40 takes.. comp them and if you need.. use some pitch correction. The big different between armature and professional result is time and editing..

[KungFuLio]

Dear OP,
I use a gun!
Sincerely,
Phil

[crosscutred]

Originally Posted by T.Johannsson

time is all you need.. take 30 - 40 takes.. comp them and if you need.. use some pitch correction. The big different between armature and professional result is time and editing..

Wow! how much do you charge for that? is it an hourly rate?
Just listening through to 30 vocal takes of a bad singer is worth more than most bad singers are willing to pay surely?

I go with the honest approach (within reason) and a 2 or 3 takes comped to make a decent representation of the vocalist at their best is what I aim for, I may even tune the odd particularly winceworthy note, but to make a rotten singer sound like a good one is impossible... you can always tell.

Any decent management/label won't let a really bad singer though the net and will understand the wisdom of vocal training over "fix it in post"

If there's no financial backing, then nobody is being done any favours by being made to sound alot better then they really are.....

If there is lots of money get stuck in with the tuning, comping, dragging things into time, eq out the nasty nasal squawk, compress the hell out of it to compensate for poor spatial awareness, then chop out the bronchial breathing that is now louder than the voice from compressing it so much, add a touch of reverb and you're done...... just make sure you're on an hourly rate

[themainbitch]

Originally Posted by DoMD

So I have this, erm .. friend ... yeah, and he's got a real lousy voice. Think Leonard Cohen doing a drunken duet with Rob Zombie. What would you put between him and the harddrive to make this abomination tolerable to an audience? Just your first instinct for a mic/pre/comp/eq chain. Got about a $5K budget. Not looking for miracles from any magic box, just to start with some good tools to try and polish this particular turd.

damn maybe find ways to break down his performance, line by line if nesissary during recording. go to the key board and hit the note over and over if its a pitch issue. Use a click if its timing. If he's singing something completley out of his range tell him he should consider re writing the melodies. I mean you can polish a turd but its still a turd i.e. kim kardashians abomination of audio. Sometimes a nice eq job and compression can crave out some of the crap. Or what about adding a phasers, chorus or flange to somewhat distort in a stylistic manner. Hope this helps.

p.s. I am a pretty badass singer not to toot my own horn or anything and am always looking for creative opps

[themainbitch]

Originally Posted by bakerman

Doubling the vocal is a good idea. With this one guy, I got loads of takes and attempted to coach his wild vocal. Then I cut it up, tuned and nudged and ending up using both vocals (comp'd lead and the comp'd double) set to 'full' volume.

It just worked and sounded alot more interesting.

well thats if he can do doubles. lol otherwise its twice the torture on the ears haha

[fooman]

I think everyone here has seen a performance by a band or artist that had a singer who simply plays off feel live. They can't sing like they do on an album. Deftones comes to mind right off the bat with a song like 'Digital Bath'. Nowhere close to the high notes in that one live.

If he wasn't tuned in the studio, it must have been a gooooood day. I love Chino and the band (my fav records are Deftones, love em to death), but live he can't sing some of the stuff he has on cd.

Point is.... don't be afraid to tune it if you're being paid to make the band sound good. If you are being paid per hour, then ya let him pay you to practice while you watch

This is getting away from the OP, since the singer is him haha
So to make yourself better, tune it up. Or practice. One of the two will need to be done!

[Temple of Light]

Start with a LDC, prefferably tube, into some pitch correction, into some preamping, into some harmony proccessing, into some verb, then compress the mess... Cut it.Edit and mix as many takes as you have time for, at least ten per song. Brittney uses something quite akin to this and they can get her on radio....
Proper tools count. The selection of the tools will be your job. Sounds like you already know about the usual suspects.

[Unclenny]

Interesting thread.

There's bad singing and there's 'character' singing. Very important to determine where your singer fits into that parameter.

One person's opinion of suckage could well be another's opinion of character.

That said, if we are getting paid for our services ( I am not) then I guess we should be capturing what the talent is putting down to the best of our abilities and gently massaging it make it sound as good as it can while still maintaining the basic character of the original performance.

[RightOnRome]

i will do 10,20,30 takes if i have to ..and comp for days ..get creative with mics,eq, and of course auto tune

[T.Johannsson]

Originally Posted by crosscutred

Wow! how much do you charge for that? is it an hourly rate?
Just listening through to 30 vocal takes of a bad singer is worth more than most bad singers are willing to pay surely?

I go with the honest approach (within reason) and a 2 or 3 takes comped to make a decent representation of the vocalist at their best is what I aim for, I may even tune the odd particularly winceworthy note, but to make a rotten singer sound like a good one is impossible... you can always tell.

Any decent management/label won't let a really bad singer though the net and will understand the wisdom of vocal training over "fix it in post"

If there's no financial backing, then nobody is being done any favours by being made to sound alot better then they really are.....

If there is lots of money get stuck in with the tuning, comping, dragging things into time, eq out the nasty nasal squawk, compress the hell out of it to compensate for poor spatial awareness, then chop out the bronchial breathing that is now louder than the voice from compressing it so much, add a touch of reverb and you're done...... just make sure you're on an hourly rate

Im getting paid for getting the job done and making the song sound as good as I can. I have never had a singer in my studio that have needed more than 10 takes.. usually its 3 takes and comp from them. I had a singer in this week that sung 8 songs in less than 4 hours. no comping needed.. lead vocal, backing vocal and a lot off tracking 4 to 6 tracks per song.. I had a singer in my studio that was "bad" in pitch but he was so cool and a great performer that pitch didnt matter.. make what ever happen to make the song sound as good as it can.. Its my reputation that can go bad if the sound from my studio is out of tune or lame..

If I needed I would talk to the band or who ever that is paying and convince them what is needed to get the job done... If they dont have the money to do it that way or dont want to.. they are more than welcome to take they session to another studio and finish.. having said that there is different between something that will be released and some hobbyist that want to record some songs for him self and his friends..

[KIDBILL]

On voices that dont sounds amazing to me the at4047 turned them great sometimes

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by DoMD

So I have this, erm .. friend ... yeah, and he's got a real lousy voice. Think Leonard Cohen doing a drunken duet with Rob Zombie. What would you put between him and the harddrive to make this abomination tolerable to an audience? Just your first instinct for a mic/pre/comp/eq chain. Got about a $5K budget. Not looking for miracles from any magic box, just to start with some good tools to try and polish this particular turd.

This is an old thread so presumably the problem has been dealt with. But I'm thinking a drunken Leonard Cohen dueting with Rob Zombie might be pretty cool. I'd use a Flea 47 into a Nevish preamp with an LA2A. Go for big proximity and make sure you record the first take.

-R

[Convectuoso]

Does everyone still think there is 'another guy' and not it actually being him?

I'm pretty sure there is no other guy. It's him.

[crosscutred]

Originally Posted by Convectuoso

Does everyone still think there is 'another guy' and not it actually being him?

I'm pretty sure there is no other guy. It's him.

Yes, several years ago. The OP's problem has become a starting point for general discussion on the topic.