Starting a metal session tomorrow, anyone care to share thoughts about mic decissions

[mherrane]

Hi slutz!
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I'm starting a new session tomorrow with a finnish metal band called Misery Inc. The band plays hard, fast and aggressive trash metal with hard guitar riffs and strong vocal melodies and harmonics.
<o:p></o:p>
The drummer of the band is one of the best metal drummers I know and I'm very excited of everything that's going to happen.

<o:p></o:p>
We will record the drums in a local studio called Soundtrack (www.soundtrack.fi if someone is interested to see the place). The place is familiar for me, also most of the equipment but not everything. I thought I'd ask some ideas and suggestions…This is what we have and what I've planned so far.

<o:p></o:p>
I will record on Cubase SX using RME Fireface and Lynx Aurora 16. The drumkit is huge with two bass drums, 5 toms and lots of cymbals soi t will take some time to get everything to work the way I want (phase problems etc, we'll see what happens).
<o:p></o:p>

This is list of mics that are available:

4 x Neumann U-87
2 x Neumann U-47
2 x Neumann 84
1 x Neumann / Telefunken U-48 Tube (1955)
2 x B&K (dba)
2 x Schoeps
2 x CAD Equitec II
2 x Milab Vip501
1 x Groove Tube Mk II
10 x Sennheiser 421
3 x Sennheiser 441
4 x Sennheiser 601
2 x Sennheiser mke 30 r
2 x Sennheiser mkh 40
10 x Shure Sm57
2 x Shure Sm7
1 x Shure Sm94
1 x Shure Beta52
2 x Shure Beta-91
2 x Soundelux U195
1 x Ev N/D168
4 x Beyer 88
3 x Beyer 201
4 x AKG 414
1 x AKG D112
2 x AKG D12
3 x AKG C451
4 x AKG Miniatyre
4 x Audio-Technica Atm25
6 x TB 500 ribbon
1 Jam ribbon
2 x Shure sm 58
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

This is a list of preamps available:
<o:p></o:p>

Trident 80A console
Neve Portico 5012 4ch
Telefunken V 72
Telefunken V 72
API 3124 4ch
Avalon 737
TLA 5051 Valve
ART Dual Tube pre Stereo
Yamaha MLA 7 ( 8ch )
Yamaha MLA 7 ( 8ch )
Joemeek VC3


I've also ordered 2 Chandler Germaniums and 2 Yamaha Subkiks but I suppose they will not be here soon enough to get to this session.
<o:p></o:p>
I like to record as much as possible and then later decide what's useful. This is because we have only 4 days time to be in Soundtrack and I want to use this time the best way possible.
<o:p></o:p>
This is what I've planned:
<o:p></o:p>
2 mics for both BDs, snare and every tom, I really like the sound of toms miked on both sides.
3 OHs, left, right and center, since the kit is quite big and has lost of stuff. Ride and hihat get their own mikes then 2 sets of room mics.
<o:p></o:p>
This is my channel list so far:

<o:p></o:p>
# Name Mic Preamp
1. BD1 Ext Soundelux U195 Portico 1
2. BD1 Int Shure Beta-91 API 1
3. BD2 Ext Soundelux U195 Portico 2
4. BD2 Int Shure Beta-91 API 2
5. Snare Top Shure SM57 API 3
6. Snare Btm AKG 451 API 4
7. RTom 1 Top Sennh. 421 Trident
8. RTom 1 Btm Sennh. 421 Trident
9.- The rest of Sennh. 421 Trident
16. the toms
17. Hihat AKG 451 Trident
18. Ride Neu KM84 Trident
19. OH L Neu U-87 Trident
<o:p></o:p>
20. OH C Neu U-87 Trident
21. OH R Neu U-87 Trident
22. Room 1L T-bone R500 Portico 3
23. Room 1R T-Bone R500 Portico 4
24. Room 2L AKG 414 Telefunken
25. Room 2R T-Bone R500 Telefunken

<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I'll patch the channels so that the 16 "most important" go through the Lynx and the other 9 through the Fireface AD. I probably summ the tom tracks on the way in so that there will be only one track per each tom. I'd like to use SPL transient designer on the tom top tracks, that's what I anyway do in the mix but I have only 4 channels of TD and 5 toms so I'm not sure, depends on the tom sounds.

<o:p></o:p>
Since I think this is most of all very slutty setup (many microphones etc) I'd like to post some pictures here but unfortunately I'm blind so my pictures wouldn't perhaps be the best possible … I'll ask someone to take a photo or two of the miked drumset so I can share this with you all.

<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>I have a few questions about eh mics and mic decissions...Would it be better to use some other mics on Tom bottoms than 421s also I'm not sure if the U87s are the best possible OHs. They are from the beginning of 90s I think and the house engineer told me they have just beenmaintained... Can't explain in english what they've done for the 87s...Don't know the right word ...But the capsules have been maintained.</o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>I will use XY-stereo in the close room mics and MS witht the distant. I've always used matched pairs while recording MS but I want to know what the AKG+T-Bone mixture sounds . Any thoughts about the room mic choises? Maybe U47s would do better ?</o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

<o:p>All your ideas and thoughts are very welcome.</o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>-- Mikko</o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

[lionheart]

Would realy love to se a picture of the kit and what mic's you ended up with when the kit is mic'ed up:-)

One tip is Audix D6 on BD..

[mherrane]

Do you think that D6 would be a better choise for BD than Shure Beta-91?

I've recorded many albums with the Beta-91 and like it very much especially for this kind of music but have never tested the D6 and it sounds interesting...

-- Mikko

[mjlaudio]

what dpa's are they.......the dpa's and scheops might be good for oh's if they are cardiod.

[PROAUDIOCHICAGO]

421 to api 3124 for sure for toms.

I agree D6 for kicks, see if he can use a double pedal instead of 2 kicks problably portico.

I dont even mic the hat anymore for metal stuff but if you have to use the akg 451.

problably U47 to telefunkin pre for room.

C414 for overheads to something warm.

57, for snare


thats my 2 cents, i've done alot of metal recordings.

[E Orjatsalo]

Originally Posted by mherrane

Do you think that D6 would be a better choise for BD than Shure Beta-91?

I've recorded many albums with the Beta-91 and like it very much especially for this kind of music but have never tested the D6 and it sounds interesting...

-- Mikko

But you've heard it at least once, when I was mixing MyGRAIN on that show at Semifinal... D6 is also my favorite mic for kick in studio too. I can borrow you couple of 'em if you want to?

Sano Kykkäselle terveisiä kun Soundtracksilla äänitätte :D

[TML]

I like to close mic the crap out of everything. I like the D6 or the good old d112 will work with some carving. Don't compress the kiks at all... let the buss compressor handle that in the mix... that will give it punch. Go top snare with a 57 and bottom with a good condenser. You may want to close mic each cymbal. Spaced pairs are common for clusters of cynbals and give a wider stereo perspective in the mix. Did metal guys use room mics?? lol....I still like the 421 for toms... the little senn's are nice if there isn't room due to a bunch of cymbals. I think the 91 and a sub kik is a killer combination for metal. Of course the player is the whole show. my 2 cents. Check out the article in this months modern drummer on Jason Bitner...he's on the cover. We did a side project for him this winter. In the article this month his producer for the last Shadow's Fall record goes into detail on the mic's and setup. Nice piece!
Tim

[everybody's x]

D6 is the bomb for metal, but since you've already got sm91's and subkicks you're good to go. Unless you just need a reason to buy more gear (slut!)

[warhead]

If anything the D6 will make an excellent trigger for the kick drums in the mix.

(kidding, kind of)

If it's real thrash you will likely prefer a triggered sound rather than the blur of his kicks.

War

[slaves666]

Sub Kicks are cool, but depending on how you mix the bass and guitars, they might not get too much use.

I tend to worry about how hard he'll hit, I always get too much cymbals in toms, especially if there are long tom passes.....I'd suggest getting individual hits of everything as a safety incase you need to drop in a tom hit or whatever.

After all that, hire someone to tune the kit.....this makes a huge difference, also check the tuning of the band, against that of the drums.... this can tighten things up.

[mherrane]

Thanks for everyone...

Let's see if I end up using triggers or not...Yes, the music is "real trash" but that doesn't automatically mean you HAVE to use triggers...I think it's more a "It's better in many cases"-thing ... I usually use a sample with the snare but not with BD if the drummer is good enough...And this one really is. I've recorded some of their shows to a multitrack and mixed them afterwards...Never used a kick sample and always got a decent sound both sound wise and dynamic wise. I will record samples of each drum and cymbal just for safety...The guy doesn't want to use double pedal in this session... He likes to play 2 real bass drums.

E_Orjatsalo: I wasn't too impressed when I heard you use D6s' with MyGrain...I prefer the attack and aggre of Beta-91 when mixing metal live... I don't like Beta52s either while many others do. But that's just me.

Anyway...Since I'm a slut, I've decided to get 2 D6s. I can always use them on floor toms and bass cabs etc. if I don't like them on BD...I'm quite sure I like them more in the studio, we'll see tomorrow.

I'll keep u all informed. Maybe I can send some pictures too, let's see.

-- Mikko

[*CISKO*]

Originally Posted by warhead

If anything the D6 will make an excellent trigger for the kick drums in the mix.

(kidding, kind of)

If it's real thrash you will likely prefer a triggered sound rather than the blur of his kicks.

War

+1
and jsut your basic drum mics
421s on toms, 57 on snare (i 5)top and bottom(or side)
kick with a beta 91 inside and a d6
451 on hat

take your pick on the oh´syou have enough good mics to do so
and rooms if you want that vibe,
my guess is youll use very illte of them
cause you want your drums super in your face!

[warhead]

Originally Posted by slaves666

Sub Kicks are cool, but depending on how you mix the bass and guitars, they might not get too much use.

I think the biggest problem with using a Sub Kick is that when thrash players get their kicks going fast there isn't enough time for resonant sounds. There could be 12 kick hits or more between both feet in one second's time! Not much time for anything beyond a solid click / slap.

(ok sample)

War