compressors for tracking drums... what do you like?

[wm_b]

I've got a few comps I use for vox, bass, and guitars but I don't really feel like I've got drums covered. I've got an LA2A and an LA3A. These do well enough for many sources but I don't feel like I have them in numbers enough to meaningfully use them on drums. Not having control over attack seems too much of a limitation for dum recording.

I've always gone straight from the pre's to the AD. I'm working on a project that has some printed compression on the drums and while I think the printed attack time is a just a little fast the sound I'm getting by only gently adding a little more compression in the mix is VERY pleasing

So what are some generally good comps for drums? I know that 160's are pretty standard but there are many varieties. Which ones? I am totally luke warm about 1176's but do they have any use for drum tracking? I've got a friend who wants to do some trading and is offering a 6176 as part of a deal. Something makes me think I need something a little less expensive and in greater numbers.

Alternatively would getting a second LA2 or 3 have any benefit for doing overheads?

What about toms? It's not difficut to have more than $1k tied up in recording an instrument that makes sound for less than 10 seconds collectively in a song. They need to sound great but what can I use to to compress them without breaking the bank. Seems like getting spendy for kik, snr, and oh's would be more meaningful.

Thanks in advance for the ideas, wm.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by wm_b

I've got a few comps I use for vox, bass, and guitars but I don't really feel like I've got drums covered. I've got an LA2A and an LA3A. These do well enough for many sources but I don't feel like I have them in numbers enough to meaningfully use them on drums. Not having control over attack seems too much of a limitation for dum recording.

I've always gone straight from the pre's to the AD. I'm working on a project that has some printed compression on the drums and while I think the printed attack time is a just a little fast the sound I'm getting by only gently adding a little more compression in the mix is VERY pleasing

So what are some generally good comps for drums? I know that 160's are pretty standard but there are many varieties. Which ones? I am totally luke warm about 1176's but do they have any use for drum tracking? I've got a friend who wants to do some trading and is offering a 6176 as part of a deal. Something makes me think I need something a little less expensive and in greater numbers.

Alternatively would getting a second LA2 or 3 have any benefit for doing overheads?

What about toms? It's not difficut to have more than $1k tied up in recording an instrument that makes sound for less than 10 seconds collectively in a song. They need to sound great but what can I use to to compress them without breaking the bank. Seems like getting spendy for kik, snr, and oh's would be more meaningful.

Thanks in advance for the ideas, wm.

wow. that is some thick compressors for drums, i do ot use any compression on drums until the end, i do use preamps tho, thats a must....

[TheSweetener]

I would not use compression during tracking either. It's risky.

My suggestions are:
1.) 1176 (room mics, drumbus)
2.) Distressor (snare, kick, room)
3.) My goto plugin for everything drum related is the Drawmer compressor (I use the Soundscape version, but there's also a ProTools version available)
4.) SSL type VCA compressor (drumbus)

[bobwarren]

I don't compress on the way to the DAW either. I do like to use Waves Ren Comp on individual drums and URS 1970 on OH or drum bus.

[emir_macaroni]

I agree with TheSweetener on 1 & 2, though I really like the zero attack time of BBC am6/17 on snare, combined with slow attack on the bus comp.
Toms: Valley People Dynamite in RMS mode. Cheap.
OH: Amek 9098. Not as cheap.

[u b k]

tape; nothing else is needed for tracking.

absent tape, something so fast it can be invisible but not so fast that it kills everything (el-ops, e.g.). drums straight to digital always sound wrong to me, too much of the unwanted and not enough of the wanted. in those cases, an 1176, daking, fatso in tracking mode, distressor, and the oft-overlooked but always lovely trakker will do.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Musiclab]

Nothing, there are too many ways you can have a problem. Only in the mix

[chandlersonic]

Originally Posted by wm_b

What about toms? It's not difficut to have more than $1k tied up in recording an instrument that makes sound for less than 10 seconds collectively in a song. They need to sound great but what can I use to to compress them without breaking the bank. Seems like getting spendy for kik, snr, and oh's would be more meaningful.

Thanks in advance for the ideas, wm.

Drawmer 441 is in your price range and ok for toms, that or get 3 dbx 160xs which are just fine too.

[JonCraig]

kick & snare are where i love 1176's. i'm lukewarm about them elsewhere. as you mentioned, dbx 160's are also killer on k & sn. toms usually come in uncompressed, unless i'm given lots of time to tweak them (usually not the case). OHs i typically leave uncompressed, if they need it, they'll get some gentle squeezing in the mix. room mic, if you're into that, i'll knock off 6-10 dB. anything crunchy works. i typically use whatever compressor is left over for this (and i typically don't use the room mic in the mix, for what that's worth )

--jon

[neilio]

vocals and percussive intruments are fine to compress/limit while tracking...especially snares and toms. not so much for dynamic control(but if the player needs it...) but more the the attack and what not....

on drums you want something fast and probably not too much sonic character.

i would stay away from tube/valve comps for drums.

someone else said dbx 160a's they are great percussive comp/limiters and cheap. you could get like 10 of em for the price of an la-2. they work well for other things too....maybe guitar parts, or organ type things....

generally i associate 160a's with fast transient, type material.

dbx® 160A Compressor/Limiter

[superburtm]

no compression during tracking except maybe a room mic..but why, I can adjust to taste in the mix if it;s not crushed during tracking

[robot gigante]

I agree that generally speaking it isn't too cool to track drums w/ compression, although sometimes it can work.

As far as mixing goes I was going to draw up a big list of what I like, but f**k it, so many options, so many different sounds... it all depends... however, I really dig the Chandler Zener (thick & punchy) on drum bus, and I loove crushing room mics or anything else with a Spectra Sonics 610.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

Nothing, there are too many ways you can have a problem. Only in the mix

thumbsup

[Daedalus77]

Get a Transient Designer for mixing. Total control.

[wm_b]

Thanks for all the suggestions!

I knew there would be those that say don't do it and while I didn't view it as a total no-no I've been in that camp. Compress it in the mix was always the M.O. The last two records I've done were more of a team effort with different and more experienced producers, engineers and mixers as well as myself. In one case the mixer was a known "LA" guy and he suggested that I might consider compressing drums on the way in. Nothing drastic just a little bit of movement in the meters.

The record I'm currently doing has drums with just a touch of comp printed and I find that adding just a bit more but less drastic compression in the mix sounds better than if I had done all of it after the fact. Maybe I'm way off but it sounds better to me.

Cheers, wm

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by wm_b

just a touch of comp printed and I find that adding just a bit more but less drastic compression in the mix sounds better than if I had done all of it after the fact.

thumbsup

--jon

[neilio]

[quote=wm_b;1252327]Thanks for all the suggestions!

I knew there would be those that say don't do it and while I didn't view it as a total no-no I've been in that camp. Compress it in the mix was always the M.O. The last two records I've done were more of a team effort with different and more experienced producers, engineers and mixers as well as myself. In one case the mixer was a known "LA" guy and he suggested that I might consider compressing drums on the way in. Nothing drastic just a little bit of movement in the meters.

The record I'm currently doing has drums with just a touch of comp printed and I find that adding just a bit more but less drastic compression in the mix sounds better than if I had done all of it after the fact. Maybe I'm way off but it sounds better to me.


thats what i meant...more or less...look i ve done a few albums using studers,la studio big neve board and using the 160x's in my case just touching the snare and toms to tape...and the sound didnt suffer and the mixer didnt complain about the drums sooooo...

as far as the meters of those 160's for drums they should cross each other on input, so that the input meter,when fed barely crosses the reduction meter...does that make sense?

[Sigma]

whats the big deal about using compressors or downward expanders while cutting? i mean it's been done for decades...

ohh yeah cut it flat going in and then throw in a ton of plug ins on the monitor side... yeah that's the ticket


i'd rather hit something 2x's mild than once hard

it reminds me of the mixes i get to do when people say "there are 72 tracks on the song " then i see that they didn't comp the 12 bgk vox parts to stereo ..or bounce the strings

making much of the mix more of a bounce/comp session than a mix session

back to the question..it depends on what i want the drums to sound like..

[jacobdetering]

I love tracking with comps - I think so much of what to use depends on the material you're tracking. You can often get away with using an LA3 opto device on slower source material such as kick drums; just make sure you are barely feathering the thing. Snare should be something tweakable - distressor ... even an 1176; it all about attack and release settings. Daking comps are killer on snare, too. Overhead - I love the API2500 in feedback mode.

[toddburke]

what does a drum sound like without compression?

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by jacobdetering

I love tracking with comps - I think so much of what to use depends on the material you're tracking. You can often get away with using an LA3 opto device on slower source material such as kick drums; just make sure you are barely feathering the thing. Snare should be something tweakable - distressor ... even an 1176; it all about attack and release settings. Daking comps are killer on snare, too. Overhead - I love the API2500 in feedback mode.

allison Gain Brains, La4's , 1176's

the opto's have that nice front end that passes and that slow down at minus 3 to 0 compression

and the fast compressors can soften the front end if that's what's needed

i don't get the fear factor..people used to track MONO , 3 track and 4 track for years..imagine if everything went in unprocessed

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by superburtm

no compression during tracking except maybe a room mic..but why, I can adjust to taste in the mix if it;s not crushed during tracking

compressors react differently before they hit the A/D.. dont ask me why.. but they work better.

also.. if tracking to tape and going for a bit of tape slam its good to even out the input going in... you'll get a more even tape slam.. you'll get better signal to noise.. etc

its even better to EQ to tape if you can.. no sense in adding harmonics to schmotz you're gonna EQ out later is there? why make life harder if you dont have to?

so there's a few reasons why... i can think of more if pressed

i'll squash room mics on the way in.. love a smart C2 for this job... the C2 has some great envelope control.. you can get the cymbals to splash up all vintage like if you want... its smooth enough to get away with during tracking.

if youve got a patchbay/mults/extra inputs.. why not smash the crap out of some "extra" tracks for vibe? musicians dig it and dish out better performances... fix it in the mix is for ppl who have no idea what they want... it's for pussies... take a chance once in awhile... especially if you have the extra inputs to cover your behind... have FUN with tracking...

[paterno]

I know this has come up before, but why are some of you so against using compression while tracking?

John

PS -- The Distressor would be a mighty fine addition for drum compression, bass, etc...

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by paterno

I know this has come up before, but why are some of you so against using compression while tracking?

easy.

fear of making mistakes.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by 3rd world order

easy.

fear of making mistakes.

yes we are here to make records that don't bother people

[neilio]

Originally Posted by Sigma

yes we are here to make records that don't bother people

yeah no you dont want commit to something that your then stuck with,but maybe what i meant maybe is just a little limiting to control transients and to help with attack.

but again that may be more of advanced technique.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by neilio

yeah no you dont want commit to something that your then stuck with,but maybe what i meant maybe is just a little limiting to control transients and to help with attack.

but again that may be more of advanced technique.

in analog days eq and compression to tape for certain types of music were a MUST

can you get away without it today on DAW's ? ..ehhh yeah i guess

but i like my stuff to sound good without plug in's..

bands like to see no inserts and the stuff sounding good..they know it will only get better

i know that i sound like a prick most of the time ..but many of the queries here are hard for me to understand..

[Steffmo]

I think the fear of making mistakes applies alot more to gates than comps.

Lets face it, if the drummer was a consistant machine that had real control, we would be less likely to consider compression. But if you can't get the groove into the drum track, you start looking for a way to make it happen.

An inconsistant drummer is a real problem with gates, because you never know when you will do a take and find out half the hits didn't get through the gates.

Compression doesn't have that problem. I don't often track drums with compression, but if its needed, why not? I generally use 160 or 161 VUs. Maybe an LA4. If its to a DAW I usually track both squashed and un squashed. Eliminates fear yes, but also I find just bringing a bit of the compressed under the flat snare is the best tape emulation I've heard.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Steffmo

I think the fear of making mistakes applies alot more to gates than comps.

Lets face it, if the drummer was a consistant machine that had real control, we would be less likely to consider compression. But if you can't get the groove into the drum track, you start looking for a way to make it happen.

An inconsistant drummer is a real problem with gates, because you never know when you will do a take and find out half the hits didn't get through the gates.

Compression doesn't have that problem. I don't often track drums with compression, but if its needed, why not? I generally use 160 or 161 VUs. Maybe an LA4. If its to a DAW I usually track both squashed and un squashed. Eliminates fear yes, but also I find just bringing a bit of the compressed under the flat snare is the best tape emulation I've heard.

full gating yes ..downward expansion on toms if ya are just getting 3-6 db outta it..cleans up the tracks and really is no biggie

[Yetti]

Experience helps overcome the fear of over compressing on the way in...
Haven't we all made the mistake?
I have!
The fact is that many musicians perform sound checks at a lower volume level and intensity than when performing the actual take.
That nice 2-3 compression setting on the snare is now like 12-15....sound familiar?
And of course, they want to go with that take.(lol)