Anyone using aftermarket AC cords?

[Dot]

I've had some Mastering A/C Power Cables by Requisite Audio for several months and wound up using them to power a pair of Dynaudio AIR 15's and was surprised at the difference in the sound quality over the stock power cords. Also have been trying a couple of different aftermarket power cables on a DAC1. I'm hearing quite a difference.

Anyone else using aftermarket AC power cords?

[Berolzheimer]

Yep. I'm friends with the guy who makes those for Requisite and have been priviledged with long term loans of several prototypes, it is amazing the difference they make. I was a total sceptic about them until I did some listening tests. It doesn't make much sense to me, but I have to let my ears outweigh my brain. The requisite mic & line cables are wonderful too.

Keep an eye out for their monitors, coming soon.

[dave-G]

Disclaimer: I do not intend to question or dis' anyone's perception.. I'm just 'skeptifying'

It has always seemed very specious to me to think that 3' of special power cable is capable of somehow improving upon the miles of municipal supply and hundreds of feet of romex or knob-n-tube that gets it to the meager wall-outlet you're plugging into.

However... People rave about this stuff. Granted, some of the same people raved about green magic markering their CDs, but saner people rave too. I have used some of the esoteric cables myself on occasion, when packaged with other rental gear, but never in a comparison-type situation. I just plugged the heavy thing in and didn't give it a thought.

So, I wonder -- how do you compare? Listen to something, then unplug, change power cord, plug back in, power up, and listen to the same thing again? That's a lot of subtlety to remember over the course of this procedure, and a lot of room for your mind to work on your ears, isn't it?

Is there any way to actually instantly A/B perfectly gain-matched identicals (ie 1 DAC-1 with stock IEC cord, switched blind A/B or A/B/X with the Requisite-corded DAC-1?). Doesn't EveAnna make some nifty little fish-named switching box that could help de-mystify this whole thing a bit?

I'm ever-so-fascinated by the claims of certain esoteric products in the world audiophilia, and ever-so-incredulous at the prices. It would be interesting to see/hear some more definitive testing and evaluation above and beyond the usual subjective, superlative conjecture that usually flows around such things. I understand the difficulty in making objective tests/evaluations, but it seems like there's an apparent lack of effort to try, and that some folks (present company excluded by gearslut honor) hide behind the impenetrability of "opinion", while the emperor's ass is hanging out.

[/skepticism]
-dave

[Berolzheimer]

Aah, I knew someone would ask this, and it's a good question. The answer's pretty simple though, I recorded a consistent acoustic source with my interface powered with the standard AC cable, and then with the Requisite cable(s) (plural since we were comparing various prototypes) and several other brands, and then lined up the various recordings in PT and compared them. The mic & line level cables were tested in much the same way.
Comparing the AC cable on my mixer was not hard, as switching AC cables on that only takes a few seconds, and it's easy to hear the difference when listening to music with only a few seconds between hearings. Especially since the difference is not at all subtle.

[hollywood_steve]

God, I really wished that these things worked. I am about half-way done moving into my new space and I just had the landlord fix a faulty outlet in my room. Having now seen the cheap crap that runs over 100ft from my room to the electrical closet, it would be swell if adding 3FT of high quality cable at the end of the line would somehow make up for the 100ft run to the closet, but I just don't see how that could work.

Have any of the wonder-cable proponents ever offered a response to this type of sitiuation? Wouldn't this be similar to adding some 12" ductile iron pipe at the end of your 50FT garden hose and expecting that you could now fill your pool in 30 seconds?

At the same time, I always buy good quality professional cables (signal, power, whatever....) as I never want my contribution to be the weak link in the chain. But I just don't see how adding a few titanium links is going to improve the overall performance of the chain.

respectfully,

[Ted Nightshade]

I want to replace most of my IEC's anyway, as there is spaghetti galore coming out of the backs of all my racks... I'm thinking some kind of DIY thing where each rack ends up with a single big fat plug and I'm using mostly IEC cords under a foot, maybe even hardwired to the distro in the rack.

So why not engage in a little audiophilia nervosa while I'm at it, if it can be done on the cheap?

Any great ideas?

[entropy]

I'm skeptical and tired so:

What? Am I missing something here? You are telling me that people pay $300 for an IEC cable?

How the hell is this justified? R&D? Parts? 300 bucks should buy you a shitload more than 3 feet

I would love to check this out but: a) I don't have $300 spare b) what's the returns policey from Australia?

I know good audio cable makes a big difference but will someone please explain to me how sticking an $300 IEC cable into an outlet that just has bog standard cable behind the wall is going to make any difference at all? Anyone?

[Dot]

Originally posted by dave-G
So, I wonder -- how do you compare? Listen to something, then unplug, change power cord, plug back in, power up, and listen to the same thing again? That's a lot of subtlety to remember over the course of this procedure, and a lot of room for your mind to work on your ears, isn't it?

I've had this current monitoring system set up for several months and have been using the stock power cords. I'd had these Requisite AC cords around for awhile, so I figured I'd just try them on the monitors and DAC1.

I was expecting some sort of subtle change - the kind you mention, Dave, where you have to do some double takes and make sure it's not just your mind exhibiting some sort of placebo effect.

I was shocked. The difference is dramatic. This sounds like analog tape again. I've watched and heard all the things I haven't liked about using digital media fly out the window. I am thoroughly convinced that digital media has not been the problem. The problem has been all the crap analog circuitry we have surrounded the digital media with.

For everyone who has a DAC1 and has been so impressed by it, you haven't heard what it can really do if you're just using the stock power cord.

After having experienced the difference first-hand, I will never use stock power cords on critical components in my studio.

hollywood_steve
God, I really wished that these things worked. I am about half-way done moving into my new space and I just had the landlord fix a faulty outlet in my room. Having now seen the cheap crap that runs over 100ft from my room to the electrical closet, it would be swell if adding 3FT of high quality cable at the end of the line would somehow make up for the 100ft run to the closet, but I just don't see how that could work.

Actually, it will make a difference, and your waterhose analogy is one you could use to think about this. No matter how the water has travelled to your house, the main thing that makes the difference in how the water comes out of the hose is the nozzle. And depend on how you have the nozzle set, you change the flow of the water. Same thing with a quality AC cord. It's the geometry of the AC that affects how the electricity enters the components. And that affects the sound of the component.

And even these aftermarket AC cords sound different. I switched the $300 Requsiite AC cable out on the DAC1 and plugged in a $700 6' Golden Sound Premier AC power Cable. (Blue). The difference was mainly in the midrange, where the Golden Sound put across a cleaner sounds, whereas the Requisite cable on the DAC1 makes the soundstage bloom more. I couldn't say one is better than the other, and so - as with mics and mic pres - it comes down to personal preference and application.

This is not voodoo. The difference is as apparent as a quality mic pre compared to a cheap mic pre.

[Ted Nightshade]

Originally posted by entropy
I'm skeptical and tired so:

What? Am I missing something here? You are telling me that people pay $300 for an IEC cable?

How the hell is this justified? R&D? Parts?

apparently, it's what some part of the market will bear!

[Ted Nightshade]

Originally posted by Dot
I've had this current monitoring system set up for several months and have been using the stock power cords. I'd had these Requisite AC cords around for awhile, so I figured I'd just try them on the monitors and DAC1.

I was expecting some sort of subtle change - the kind you mention, Dave, where you have to do some double takes and make sure it's not just your mind exhibiting some sort of placebo effect.

I was shocked. The difference is dramatic. This sounds like analog tape again. I've watched and heard all the things I haven't liked about using digital media fly out the window. I am thoroughly convinced that digital media has not been the problem. The problem has been all the crap analog circuitry we have surrounded the digital media with.

For everyone who has a DAC1 and has been so impressed by it, you haven't heard what it can really do is you're just using the stock power cord.

After having experienced the different first-hand, I will never use stock power cords on critical components in my studio.



Actually, it will make a difference, and your waterhose analogy is one you could use to think about this. No matter how the water has travelled to your house, the main thing that makes the difference in how the water comes out of the hose is the nozzle. And depend on how you have the nozzle set, you change the flow of the water. Same thing with a quality AC cord. It's the geometry of the AC that affects how the electricity enters the components. And that affects the sound of the component.

And even these aftermarket AC cords sound different. I switched the $300 Requsiite AC cable out on the DAC1 and plugged in a $700 6' Golden Sound Premier AC power Cable. (Blue). The difference was mainly in the midrange, where the Golden Sound put across a cleaner sounds, whereas the Requisite cable on the DAC1 makes the soundstage bloom more.

This is not voodoo. The difference is as apparent as a quality mic pre compared to a cheap mic pre.

Surely we can reap these benefits for a whole lot less dough? Considering I have a very small studio and would need a dozen or more of these power cords...

To continue the water analogy, I have 65 psi coming to my faucet outside. open the valve, and yow! Same valve, and 35 psi- open it, and piddle piddle...

I would love to make everything sound oh so much better, otherwise how could I be such a gearslut? But there's gotta be a much cheaper way... DIY?

[Dot]

Ted, there are all kinds of aftermarket AC cords that come in different price ranges.

A few of the less expensive cables I haven't used but have enthusiasts behind them are the Magic Power Cord http://signalcable.com/power_cables.html

The Absolute Power Cord by GTT
http://www.gttgroup.com/avframe.htm

Info on DIY cables at
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cab...ages/4226.html
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diycables.html
http://www.venhaus1.com/diymains.html

I'm not going so far as to wire everything with $300 AC cables. [ and $300 AC cables aren't even the expensive ones, folks. $2000 AC cords are some of the expensive ones. ] But I'll use better cables on the critical gear and then use some of the lesser expensive [ say $60 ] cords on some of the other components.

I have a slew of AC cables arriving over the next few weeks from many manufacturers. When the dust has cleared I'll have some reviews and articles.

[Brad Blackwood]

Ummmm, ok.

[Kyle Ashley]

Dan,

I've been into these things for years. My buddy Mike VansEvers (www.vansevers.com) has been making them and other power conditioning types of items for more than a decade. Some in the audio community consider him a genius and others a lunatic, but there is a pretty remarkable difference using his stuff. I was pretty dubious at first, but I dragged an old Marshall amp over to his place and did the A/B test. Final result: I left his shop about $700.00 poorer.

I power my rack and other essentials with his stuff, but so far not my monitors. I don't know why that didn't occur to me earlier. Dammit...thanks to you I gotta go spend more money

[warhead]

There might be a difference, but once that cd leaves your studio and little Billy rips it to .mp3...I think it won't matter. Hell even folks with high end surround systems decked out in the classiest audiophile gear are just pluggin' stock cables into the wall.

The word "reference" comes to mind, this stuff won't matter in translation to the real world.

I'd rather buy a microphone. :)

War

[heinz]

not to be overly redundant, but maybe someone can speak to the SCIENCE aspect of this improved-power-cord theory?

[Dot]

Originally posted by warhead
There might be a difference, but once that cd leaves your studio and little Billy rips it to .mp3...I think it won't matter.

That's a pretty poor argument. Why would people bother mixing songs on ultra high-end consoles. Why would you use a modded API pre over a Mackie pre. You could argue that Billy would never hear it.

Hell even folks with high end surround systems decked out in the classiest audiophile gear are just pluggin' stock cables into the wall.

No they ain't, man. Sorry, but there's a whole world out there you have no idea about. Most of those people are using aftermarket AC cables on all of their components.

[CV7]

Hype!

[kevinc]

Screwballs!




You guys may well hear a difference but personally I aint buying any.

I gotta draw the line somewhere.

[Dot]

Which one of these would mostly closely resemble you?

1. Have never tried a quality aftermarket AC cord on any of my gear, but still just want to post some bullshit comment because I really have nothing to add to the discussion but can't resist posting something.
2. Have actually used better AC cords and find them to improve the performance of my gear.
3. Have tried many aftermarket AC power cords in various environments and honestly can't hear any difference. Maybe I should get my hearing checked.
4. Old rocker dinosaur who can't hear anymore and really don't give a ****. Rock on!

[Brad Blackwood]

5. Engineer who has built (or had built) cable testers of all varieties (AC, speaker, interconnect) and have never had one person pass a true double-blind test...

[Dot]

Brad, could you say a bit more about that. What's been your personal experience with some of these types of AC cables?

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally posted by Dot
Brad, could you say a bit more about that. What's been your personal experience with some of these types of AC cables?

Years ago, before I got into mastering, I sold hifi. Had an engineer on staff that repaired broken gear and such who was convinced our hi-end cables were a bunch of crap, and started building high quality switches to test everything we sold. After a few months, it bacame obvious that they were crap. Some interconnect/speaker cables did sound different, but only because the audibly degraded the signal. AC cables either worked or did not.

The point that he made after we were all convinced that it was indeed only audio jewelry was this - if it were truly such drastic and obvious benefit, why wasn't there a single published report of someone being able to tell a diff under controlled conditions?

To my knowledge, there still hasn't been one person, to this very day, that could hear the diff when they were tested under controlled circumstances. If these cable manufacturers really want people to believe, have them set up a proper blind test and see what happens...

[Dot]

What do you mean "hearing a difference"? Do you mean being able to correctly identify between two different AC cables. What did the experiments test?

Have you personally tried anything other than stock AC cables on the main monitors at Euphonic?

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally posted by Dot
What do you mean "hearing a difference"? Do you mean being able to correctly identify between two different AC cables. What did the experiments test?

Being able to consistently and accurately discern the difference...

Have you personally tried anything other than stock AC cables on the main monitors at Euphonic?

Nope, I'll let someone else do the legwork on this one. When somebody has proven they can hear the diff, I'll look into it. i've been there, already.

The point I always bring up here is this - how many times as an engineer have you tweaked that 10kHz til it sounded just right only to realize the EQ was in bypass?

You have to remove expectation from the equation, have to.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by heinz
not to be overly redundant, but maybe someone can speak to the SCIENCE aspect of this improved-power-cord theory?

perhaps they're coated w/ some kind of fast-acting psychedelic.

[oudplayer]

Originally posted by Brad Blackwood
Being able to consistently and accurately discern the difference...

Nope, I'll let someone else do the legwork on this one. When somebody has proven they can hear the diff, I'll look into it. i've been there, already.

The point I always bring up here is this - how many times as an engineer have you tweaked that 10kHz til it sounded just right only to realize the EQ was in bypass?

You have to remove expectation from the equation, have to.

I'm with you, Brad. I've been through at least a dozen demos of everything from silver cable to those 99.999% pure oxygen free copper ones to thick speaker cables - almost 3" in diameter - that can't be dropped or even touched otherwise "the ions will become totally misaligned." (true quote) The comparison in the test has always, WITHOUT FAIL, been some beat up, poorly constructed proco or radio shack brand interconnect/ speaker cable/ power cable (yes, have demoed 2 of these expensive AC cords). In a couple of tests, I was able to isolate what I thought the audible difference was: the length of a cable. For a 10 foot mic cable, made of pure silver, will produce more sound output than a trampled 50 foot proco (which likely isn't even of a proper gauge to pass microphone signal). But with the length being equal, and the comparison being between a reasonable component (mogami or canare wiring for interconnects, what we use in our studio) and a fancy one, I have never "heard a difference."

AC cables that cost $2000? To power a device flex-soldered on a printed circuit board? WTF? Find me an electrical engineer who doesn't have a vested interest in making a profit out of AC interconnects who can explain what more expensive AC cables actually do.

Funny thing - I did a hearing comparison test with one of the audiophiles who was striving hard to convince me of the superior merit of his several hundred dollar RCA interconnects. His hearing capped out at about 13.5k, whereas mine is up to around 18.5k in one ear and 17k in the other, nullifying his hypothesis that his greater perception of frequency range accounted for his acuity of perceiving cable differences.

But I have good friends/ colleages that claim to hear a difference - and I can't deny that. I can only assert that at Radical House studios, we very proudly use $.99 AC cords and they appear to provide ample power to our high quality mixing and mastering gear.

And the 10k EQ bypass trick - do it all the time with pesky clients that want to offer input on a mix (I'm kinda, but not totally, joking). And people always hear a difference, since they want to hear a difference.

[Dot]

I had no expectations at all. I figured what the hell. Danny McKinney from Requisite Audio had sent me $1200 worth of AC cables to check out that had basically been sitting here in the box for 6 months. I have absolutely nothing invested in these cables. They belong to Danny. And I didn't give a crap if they sounded better/different or not.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by zimv20
perhaps they're coated w/ some kind of fast-acting psychedelic.

Sorry guys but that`s funny.




Correct me if I`m wrong but a power cord(as I call them) have a very simple job of getting electricity from the socket to the power supply inside or outside of your gear.

It`s one of those things that either works or doesn`t.

It`s not like an audio cable that`s carrying information in it.


It just has to conduct electricity.

I could go down to radio shack and pick up the cheapest wire they have and wire my gear directly to the socket without the AC cable.
I bet if it was properly grounded it would sound as good as any cable I own currently.


If I`m wrong definately tell me so as I personally don`t post "bullshit comments" unless I`m intrigued in the topic of the thread which is what this forum is here for.

I`m here to learn and give back what little knowledge I`ve gained over the years but I find a sense of humor helps quite a bit and so far you`ve all tickled my funny bone.

so do they clean up the power supply? you can buy power conditioners that do things like this. are these two ideas at all similar? and isnt another way to filter your power to isolate it electrically with some sort of transformer? i could be off on that last one, but id be interested to hear about people's experiences with power conditioners and how they might compare to these ac cords.

AC cables that cost $2000? To power a device flex-soldered on a printed circuit board? WTF? Find me an electrical engineer who doesn't have a vested interest in making a profit out of AC interconnects who can explain what more expensive AC cables actually do.

this is another good point. i havent heard any of the highest end pre amps and other processing gear, but they are all high quality. however, things that are soldered point to point will have the tiniest advantage over any other gear that has components soldered onto a board.

if anywhere, the advantage would lie in things like this, and even these things dont make such great differences from what i know.

[Riccardo]

Originally posted by Dot
I had no expectations at all. I figured what the hell. Danny McKinney from Requisite Audio had sent me $1200 worth of AC cables to check out that had basically been sitting here in the box for 6 months. I have absolutely nothing invested in these cables. They belong to Danny. And I didn't give a crap if they sounded better/different or not.

Dot.
Are they silver core cables? (The AC cords)
Have you had the chance to try Danny's speaker cables as well and if so how do they compare to other popular choices like say Nordost or similar?
Thanks.
Riccardo.