Vocal Mics

[JPM]

I recently tried a vintage C414 which was the best thing I've heard on my voice so far. However, I can't see it working for everything especially when I wan't something "special" for lack of a better word. Don't get me wrong, it has a smooth top end and does not sound bad when eq'd for more mid range and air but it doesn't have the same open, natural, euphonic thing i hear in some other bright mics.

I've tried a handful of standards looking for a dark sound because I like dark sounds. I'm realizing my voice just doesn't sound as good through a dark mic as it's very quiet and nuanced. So, I started looking in the bright camp.

Judging from online audio clips only (i know, i need to try them on my voice to really know but it's the next best thing) I really like the M49 sound. Soundelux e49 was nice but not as smooth, a little grittier. I also like the Brauner VM1 but that's out of my price range. At first glance their line is a little confusing. They're all supposed to sound like the VM1 but have various feature differences that lower the price? And the phantom AE edition is 1/2 the price of the normal phantom. Plus it's got a 2 year warranty whereas the valvet has a 1 year for double the price.

Anyway, the final mic I was surprised I liked was the U99. I'd always heard it was really bright but it seemed closest to the M49 in terms of smoothness and air (liked it over the e49). It was also beefier than the Brauner. Is there a difference between the original and the more recent "B" version?

So I'm kind of rambling but wondering if anyone has any thoughts based on what i've said that would help me find something "special" but versitile enough for many vocal contexts. also, anyone with more insight into the Brauner "character" and what/when they use them, please chime in.

thanks,

JPM

[filltrate]

Ive always like the Neumann M49 on vocals though lots of people i work with (i do a lot of hip hop and R&B) love the Sony c-800G. for me its a little bright for rappers but really good on singers (in my opinion). I also like the ELM 251 big thick and a nice air to it.

[WunderBro Flo]

the U99 comes in different ersions and it is not clear which is which, even if it is engraved on the mic itself. if it looks like the "old" U99 (shiny chrome top) and has a PF86 tube, it is a U99B which sounds a little smoother in the highs than the original. If you get an original U99 with EF86 tube you can buy an old stock PF86 and have a tech mod your powersupply a little, then it is a U99B. However there is another version out (U99B) which comes in the same body as the elux-mics, just with a dark painting. this one uses the same capsule but the e250 electronics and sounds almost identical in cardioid but better (to my ears that is, not everyone´s) in omni. I had both and liked them pretty much equally on vocals but preferred the drum-sound in omni of the latter. you cannot go wrong with either, they are great sounding mics and a great counter-piece to all those too bright mics out there. btw I also own a VM-1 which I love too, there is no better or worse between them, just different...

Rock!
Pat

[u b k]

i sold my u99 recently, it was no longer the best fit for my voice and i found it too 'big' in the low-mids come mixtime. in my shootouts, i fell in love with the peluso p12, it became my new favorite LDC. tons of vintage character, compelling midrange, manageable low-mids.

but in the end i decided i'm over LDC's for the time being, and went with the aea r84.

ribbons and tape, it doesn't get more old school than that.


gregoire
del
ubk

.

[JPM]

Originally Posted by WildCowboys

tyou cannot go wrong with either, they are great sounding mics and a great counter-piece to all those too bright mics out there. btw I also own a VM-1 which I love too, there is no better or worse between them, just different...

Rock!
Pat

thanks, Pat. which do you prefer for soft, tenor, male, sibilant, essey voices needing to cut through a dense acoustic mix?
i'm just trying to get a feel for how each one ends up working in the grand scheme of things when all is said and done. like what sounds better in the end: a mic that is inherently dark but then eq'd to death or a bright mic that needs some taming?

also, do you have any experience with the lower end brauners? what is it they are compromising sound wise?

thanks

JPM

[JPM]

Originally Posted by filltrate

Ive always like the Neumann M49 on vocals though lots of people i work with (i do a lot of hip hop and R&B) love the Sony c-800G. for me its a little bright for rappers but really good on singers (in my opinion). I also like the ELM 251 big thick and a nice air to it.

I did try an elux 251 but was not for me. felt muffled but essy. it was weird.

i'm not familiar with the sony. i'll check it out. is it M49ish?

[chrysb93065]

I know it may not be slutty enough, but our TLM127 is our go to 'dark' vocal mic. Through the right pre, it has a lot of character that makes male vocals really stand out in a mix. Just my 2 cents.

[filltrate]

Originally Posted by JPM

I did try an elux 251 but was not for me. felt muffled but essy. it was weird.

i'm not familiar with the sony. i'll check it out. is it M49ish?

Im not talking about soundelux 251(I cant stand that mic) im talking Telefunkin ELM251(the original bad boy) , but yes a 251 can sound muffled, ive heard some that sounded really dull due to bad maintenance. each 251 sounds a little different but when you find the right one you will know. as for the Sony C-800G for me its really bright i always find myself Deessing the vox when using this mic, but people seem to LOVE IT!!! Its got nice low end and a nice little dip in the mid rage but some major hi's. Its the mic Dr. Dre uses on eveything :-) so thats why most of my hip hop clients use it cuz "THATS THE MIC DRE USES YO!!!!" LOL
but the price of the sony is ridiculous (7-8 G's) if your looking to buy a nice tube vocal mic at a good price try the New Mojave MA-200 i just bought a pair and have been using them on my own projects for vocals w/ GREAT results. I would say the Mojave is more M49ish than the Sony.

[derker]

If you don't mind shelling it out, my nomination is the Korby Kat system. You can't go wrong with any of the capsules either, it makes for a very versatile mic!

[Solunaris]

Gefell UM900
Might be your favorite, maybe not.

[filltrate]

Originally Posted by derker

If you don't mind shelling it out, my nomination is the Korby Kat system. You can't go wrong with any of the capsules either, it makes for a very versatile mic!

Yeah Ive heard of this Kat system and saw a review on it, looks amazing . I didn't get to go to the NAAM show in LA but a good friend of mine got to go and cheked out their booth and he said he wanted to start saving some cash
I'd love to try them out.

[JPM]

Thanks for the suggestions. This going to sound like strange logic but I think it's down to a used UM70s or a Valvet.

When I was trying out the C414EB I was also auditioning a U87ai. 414 was smoother and warm without being overly beefy. The 87 was pretty good but not as sweet on top. I found a UM70s I could get for 1/2 the price of an 87. From what I've heard of it, to my ears the UM70s is a not quite as "big", has more air, but handles highs really well.

My worry is that the gefell would be too close to the 414. I know these are very different capsules but they both have that warm but slender and "highs are there but mellow" thing going on. More similar than contrasting compared to other possibilities.

So I wonder if the Valvet might be a greater contrast and thus more useful, as these would esentially be my only two mics for a while. My only hesitation with the Valvet is it would be too accurate and too bright. Plus it's really pushing my budget.

JPM

[JPM]

p.s. although i'd love to try a real 251 it's way out of my budget as is a real m49.

i've heard the korby system at a studio (albeit very briefly and not on my voice) that had them and was considering purchasing and compared to the neumans i heard, they didn't grab me.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by u b k

i fell in love with the peluso p12, it became my new favorite LDC. tons of vintage character, compelling midrange, manageable low-mids.

The P12 is excellent, although in the Peluso line I think he is looking for the sound of the 2247SE or LE as more of an all purpose mic.

JPM, don't overlook the RED system for versatility if you're looking at systems like Korby etc.

War

[JPM]

I pretty much decided against the peluso line. I've heard many clips both online and in studio and used the sdc's on guitar and I just don't think they're for me. Plus they would cost me more than a UM70s which has an M7 capsule and of which I like the sound more. I have heard a couple clips of the 22 251 that sound fairly pleasing to me but I don't think the 251 thing is for me.

Don't know anything about RED mics but if they're in the chinese camp even the "really good for the price but not the real deal" camp, I don't think I'm interested.

JPM

[Solunaris]

Originally Posted by JPM

Don't know anything about RED mics but if they're in the chinese camp even the "really good for the price but not the real deal" camp, I don't think I'm interested.

JPM

I have a pair of the RED Type A's. They stand well with my Gefell UM900's, BLUE Bottle, Innertube 450-Tubes, and so on. They aren't cheap by any means. I haven't heard the Peluso's but I don't really need to.

[warhead]

RED = assembled to order in California, USA.

War

[JPM]

Thanks. Sorry I "pre-judged" so quickly. It's just that I already have a chinese mic and though imo it's one of the best, i'm not looking for another. others i've tried that people have said were really great, were terrible. I'd be open to checking them out. Looks as though I need to figure out which capsules are which though.

JPM

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by JPM

Looks as though I need to figure out which capsules are which though.

R6 is tuned like the C12, which is the capsule in your 414. it is the capsule from the BLUE Kiwi and Bottle.
R0 is tuned like an ELAM251, with greater low-end and high-end extension than the R6.
R7 is tuned like the Neumann U47 (darker than the others).

[Solunaris]

While the previous poster is correct about what the capsules are loosely based on, having the Bottle and the Red, they do not sound alike at all with the different electronics. So saying the B6 on whatever body is going to sound the same as a 414 cause the capsules are based on the same design somewhere down the line is a very bad and inaccurate way to look at it. Yes the B6 has a brighter sound but on my Bottle, it doesn't like a 414 haha, nor the Red with the B6, or the Innertube with the B6 for that matter. The capsule is only 1/3 of the sound I'd say.

[jdjustice]

^^^^^^^^^^

good point.
one shouldn't assume that the capsule is entirely responsible for the sound of the mic.

[bobwarren]

But because it only has the capsule doesn't mean it won't sound good or even similar to the compared microphones.

[WunderBro Flo]

Originally Posted by JPM

thanks, Pat. which do you prefer for soft, tenor, male, sibilant, essey voices needing to cut through a dense acoustic mix?
i'm just trying to get a feel for how each one ends up working in the grand scheme of things when all is said and done. like what sounds better in the end: a mic that is inherently dark but then eq'd to death or a bright mic that needs some taming?

also, do you have any experience with the lower end brauners? what is it they are compromising sound wise?

thanks

JPM

As I said I think both would do the job well. Although on soft singing I usually prefer the Brauner a tiny bit, I like the U99B more on medium and loud singing styles. I would stay away from M7 type of mics if you say you have a sibilynt voice - on most essey voices I have used M7 type of mics there is a 50% chance that it turns your esses into something very unnatural.

the cheaper brauners are great as well. the phantom C is very close to the VM1 sound in cardioid, with a little bassboost in the high bass region you get even closer. the valvet is noticeably "softer" sounding than the Phantom and also a little softer than the VM1. At least the ones that I heard. If you want to cut through a dense arrangement the Phantom C with a De-Esser in the mix would get you there. The good thing about the brauners is that the esses always sound natural and never annoying. If they are too loud turn them down with a deesser or by hand and you have a pretty perfect sound.

Cheers,
PAt

[MSR74]

Would any of you reccomend the Peluso P12 or the 2247le on a Pop Tenor voice...kind of in the style of say Clay Aiken. Also I would like to use this mic for female vocals as well. Thanks.

MSR

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by u b k

ribbons and tape, it doesn't get more old school than that.


gregoire
del
ubk

.

amen to that, brother.

[JPM]

Originally Posted by WildCowboys

As I said I think both would do the job well. Although on soft singing I usually prefer the Brauner a tiny bit, I like the U99B more on medium and loud singing styles. I would stay away from M7 type of mics if you say you have a sibilynt voice - on most essey voices I have used M7 type of mics there is a 50% chance that it turns your esses into something very unnatural.

the cheaper brauners are great as well. the phantom C is very close to the VM1 sound in cardioid, with a little bassboost in the high bass region you get even closer. the valvet is noticeably "softer" sounding than the Phantom and also a little softer than the VM1. At least the ones that I heard. If you want to cut through a dense arrangement the Phantom C with a De-Esser in the mix would get you there. The good thing about the brauners is that the esses always sound natural and never annoying. If they are too loud turn them down with a deesser or by hand and you have a pretty perfect sound.

Cheers,
PAt

Thanks. Interesting you say that about the M7. The U47 kind of did that to mine but it wasn't annoying - more high-fi if you will. The U67 I tried made them less thick and pronouced compared to the U47 but both mics were too dark. I was dead set on a UM70S. Two on ebay the other day and I lost in the last seconds. I heard a clip with an essy female belting it out and the gefell seemed to handle it well. Good to know though. And good to know about the valvet. Definitely attracted to a "softer" vibe. Too bad it's so expensive. Thought I had ruled it out but now I'm bringing it back in the running.

JPM

[JPM]

Originally Posted by joeybaggadonuts

Korby neon series is killer. they have 3 or four types and it's more affordable than the convertible. the blue one rocks the casbah. they can tune is to your liking as well.

i've heard of the red and blue. i'll have to check the others out. thanks!

JPM

[JPM]

well, i've got the C12 flavor covered and i'm not so sure the blue is what i'm looking for. the KAT FET looks pretty interesting though. anyone used it? how's the high end?

JPM