Tape Simulation digital?

[tomylee]

hello, I heard about the Crane Song HEDD, but the theory about it didnt clear up for me...so it does digitally emulate tape sound? My question is, how well on a scale from 0 to "real" is it? I can't immagine any algorithm doing this well enough for making tapes obsolete, what do you think?

greets
Tom

[seaneldon]

magnetic tape will not be made obsolete by digital anything.

magnetic tape is the only medium of storage that has ANY kind of longevity. and that has NOTHING to do with sound.

i like the hedd...but it does not replace a tape machine just because it has "tape sound" features.

[max cooper]

from the description:

HEDD, short for harmonically enhanced digital device, is a technological breakthrough in signal processing. HEDD is engineered to be musically transparent while providing the capability of generating tube/analog sounds in the digital domain.

I think that means it does it digitally.

The RND tape thingy does it analogally.

Haven't compared either to tape.

[tomylee]

@seaneldon

I´m only interested in the sound...not that I´d need the tape sound that much, I´d just be eager to know if a machine of that price can recreate "tape sound" (tape compression for example) satisfactorily for sound enthusiasts, unlike magneto from steinberg...

greets
tom

The Crane Song HEDD or SPL 9631 Spectralizer are quite unique digital units.

Now there are a lot of tape compression and saturation flavors out there depending on the tape brand and model but also the tape machine preamp and output amp with own specific sonic signature.

You could get a 2, 4 or 8 tracks analog tape machine (Studer, Revox, Otari, Telefunken, Tascam) 2nd hand dirt cheap on eBay with a bunch of rolls.

Experiment with the real thing...

[Tommylicious]

Originally Posted by High Fidelity

Experiment with the real thing...

No, experiment with the reel thing!

[effectsnut]

i have one and on a scale of 1-10 i would say its a -3 for tape emulation...but it does take the edge off a mix in its own way

[Kiwiburger]

Tape sound can be broken down into several audible, measurable components.

Some people may argue that true tape sound can never be emulated - I'm not so sure. But I am 100% confident that any emulation that fails to include all of the audible, measurable components will never be convincing. Sadly, all emulations that I know about fail to include all components.

Hiss/noise
Wow & flutter/modulation
Dynamic range restriction/compression
Eq curve
Phase shift
Harmonics
Saturation

Take the RND Portico box - that's basically a tape machine with the heads head-to-head, so the whole chain is as close to a tape machine as you can possibly get. Except for the moving tape. So it can't emulate the modulation, which is a huge part of tape sound.

Digital emulations can model all of these effects, but for some reason the designers stop short. I haven't seen any digital tape emulation that consciously does all of them. The Voxengo Tapebus is one of my favorites - it uses convolution of impulses from real tape machines. It also has saturation and eq. But it doesn't do modulation.

Some digital tape delay plugins model tape sound fairly well, but they often lack subtley in being able to set wow & flutter. A little bit goes a very long way - and the really desirable machines had very little wow & flutter - but definately some.

IMO it's possible to combine several plugins and create a very realistic tape effect that could fool most people.

I'm just not 100% sure that it's healthy to worry about emulating things. Music is being recorded digitally, so why not move on and start looking at what digital can do. I.e. - not all of the components of 'tape sound' are desirable all the time. I don't particular care for a plugin that forces me to take all the components at once, however faithful it might be.

If I want noise, I have hundreds of ways of adding noise.
If I want modulation, I have hundreds of ways of adding modulation'
If I want compression ...
If I want eq ...
If I want phase shift ...
If I want harmonics ...
If I want saturation ...

IMO - there is no single software designer who is best at implementing all of these different effects digitally. Which is probably why nobody has completely nailed a great tape sound emulation. But by combining a bunch of different plugins, each selected for their quality, and combining them skillfully to taste, I believe it's possible to sound better than tape. Obviously everyone's taste can differ - so there will always be endless wars about why somebody hates/loves somebody elses mix. There will always be endless wars about somebody comparing digital with analog hating one or the other, because the methods used were set up to favor one or the other in the first place.

[Kiwiburger]

Imagine if somebody built a hardware box that was basically the Neve Portico design (tape machine heads, with the analog chain in and out) and used a rotating steel disk, with an erase head) to emulate the moving tape. By using existing hard disk technology, this could be done fairly cheap.

I think there is something that happens when audio signals are converted into a fuzzy heap of zillions of electrons that are all in constant motion (the hotter the better). It will probably be many years before CPU power can really emulate the uncertainty of the best euphonic devices.

[robot gigante]

The HEDD sounds great. But think of it as a stellar sounding converter box with some extra sweetening options, not the other way around.

If you want to get an idea of what the tape process sounds like, download the demo for the Phoenix plugin from Cranesong and get to know it a little. It's not exactly the same as the HEDD (not better or worse) but it's in the same ballpark. Great plugin btw.

I've never heard a plugin or combination thereof that sounds like a real tape delay fwiw. The Fulltone Tube Tape Echo knocks the socks off of anything I've ever tried.

[raal]

Originally Posted by robot gigante

I've never heard a plugin or combination thereof that sounds like a real tape delay fwiw. The Fulltone Tube Tape Echo knocks the socks off of anything I've ever tried.

so where's the 1/2" TTE wih dolby SR option? any news on the Anamod thing?

Originally Posted by tomylee

hello, I heard about the Crane Song HEDD, but the theory about it didnt clear up for me...so it does digitally emulate tape sound? My question is, how well on a scale from 0 to "real" is it? I can't immagine any algorithm doing this well enough for making tapes obsolete, what do you think?

greets
Tom

have HEDD, Fatso, and Phoenix plugs. all very cool things, but i've never had them next to real 1/2" to be able to compare. matter of fact i don't know of anyone who's A/Bd those, Portico, etc. to a real 1/2".

[robot gigante]

Sorry, I meant that the TTE knocks the socks off of any PLUGIN I've tried. I wouldn't say that it knocks the socks off of all other real tape delays, that is incorrect. Although it is nice.

Anamod... eehh... it's too expensive to buy enough of them to track with, 'nuff said (for me at least). Hope it sounds good though for those who want it.

[bdmctear]

For what it's worth, I think the Cranesong Phoenix plugins are very effective and very impressive. I have, and use, an Ampex mm1200. I love it with my whole heart and soul. When it's not in the budget, I go straight to PT HD. I recently got these Phoenix plugins and, minus the noise, and the wow and flutter, I hear and feel it a lot like tape. It's not exact, but it's pretty great.

[animix]

Originally Posted by raal

so where's the 1/2" TTE wih dolby SR option? any news on the Anamod thing?

have HEDD, Fatso, and Phoenix plugs. all very cool things, but i've never had them next to real 1/2" to be able to compare. matter of fact i don't know of anyone who's A/Bd those, Portico, etc. to a real 1/2".

I have a Portico 5042 and have A/B'ed it extensively with an Otari MTR 12 1/2" machine. Lots of similarities. Is it tape though???...nope. I personally like it better than the sound of the MTR12. Would I like it better than a Studer or Ampex 1/2" though???.....well, I dunno'. Still, it sounds great and I interface mine with Mytek Stereo96 AD and DA units on my mix bus. I like what it does.