Latest general of digital converters?

[Unknown soldier]

I haven't really heard the new crop of digital converters that offer higher samples rates, better clocks, etc. Currently I'm using a DCS converter (44.1,48K) for AD, which is very transparent, but about 5 years old or so. For DA, I use the stock converters on a fostex D1624 HD recorder, which after comparing to apogee and swissonic is close enough to warrant not spending the money for outboard DA. All mixed through a ghost to soundforge via the DCS, I get a very good sound, but still hear the "digital" in it, especially in the high end where it still sounds a bit taxing on the ears after about 10 minutes of playback....


Just wondering about the lastest converters - apogee rosetta 800, digi 192, and similar....a step up of from converters two years ago? Would I have an "AH HA" moment? Worth it to jump up to higher sample rates while tracking? I need 16 tracks, so I'm looking at about $5-7K for a new quality setup, which I would question is worth it....

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Unknown soldier
I haven't really heard the new crop of digital converters that offer higher samples rates, better clocks, etc. Currently I'm using a DCS converter (44.1,48K) for AD, which is very transparent, but about 5 years old or so. For DA, I use the stock converters on a fostex D1624 HD recorder, which after comparing to apogee and swissonic is close enough to warrant not spending the money for outboard DA. All mixed through a ghost to soundforge via the DCS, I get a very good sound, but still hear the "digital" in it, especially in the high end where it still sounds a bit taxing on the ears after about 10 minutes of playback....


Just wondering about the lastest converters - apogee rosetta 800, digi 192, and similar....a step up of from converters two years ago? Would I have an "AH HA" moment? Worth it to jump up to higher sample rates while tracking? I need 16 tracks, so I'm looking at about $5-7K for a new quality setup, which I would question is worth it....

Check out the Prism Dream ADA-8.

You can configure it in a number of ways.

Its definitely worth every penny.

[kittonian]

In your price range you can get the newest converters from Apogee (the AD & DA 16X). That'll give you 16 channels of I/O and the ability to use an X-Series card to go straight into PT HD or via FireWire for a native solution (bypassing all other hardware so the signal goes straight in from the converters).

[Boogle]

Have you considered Mytek, (not sure in price range). It's well regarded around here. Just search some threads re Mytek.

[Bob Olhsson]

To me, the DCS of two years ago sounded better than the digi 192 or anything that Apogee made at the time. The ones to beat were Weiss, Euphonix, Lavry, Benchmark, Prism and Mytek.

Some folks who work for or sell Apogee are claiming their latest generation stuff is better than those others but I don't know of anybody who has actually compared them yet. Apogee used to be about as good as it gets for a bit less money but that was back when the DA-1000 and AD-500 were considered state of the art. Hopefully their new products live up to the claims that are now being made.

Myself, I think D to As have come farther than A to Ds so I would check out the Benchmark DAC-1, the Lavry Blue, or at the high-end the Lavry Gold. Mytek and Apogee both have new D to As that I haven't heard yet.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by kittonian
In your price range you can get the newest converters from Apogee (the AD & DA 16X). That'll give you 16 channels of I/O and the ability to use an X-Series card to go straight into PT HD or via FireWire for a native solution (bypassing all other hardware so the signal goes straight in from the converters).

Kittonian you are the Spam master.

I don`t know how you get away with this shit around here.
Usually people come down harder on guys that talk up shit they sell.

Everytime anyone mentions converters or Apogee your there spamming away.

You should learn something from Atticus from Benchmark.
(and other people too but he comes to mind because it`s converters were talking about)

He`s a lot cooler about this stuff and just gives info instead of acting like a salesweasel.

[edmann]

Originally posted by kevinc
Kittonian you are the Spam master.

Everytime anyone mentions converters ...your there spamming away.

You should learn something from Atticus ..

agreed - and it actually does not speak well for Apogee either = inspires -0- confidence unless you know Apogee for yourself and can separate the juvenile dealer-hype from the actual manufacturer.

Atticus has had his moments too - altho apparently as a result of relentless beatings he has pulled back considerably -

[atticus]

Relentless beatings? Must have missed that one.....



BTW, I have almost 700 posts here, and a great deal of them have absolutely nothing to do with Benchmark.

Ok, I just checked. I did a search using my name at the poster and I typed all of our products names as well as the word Benchmark and I came up with 74 posts. I think that 74 posts out of 700 isn't too awfully bad, especially considering most of the Benchmark related posts were simply answers to questions posted on the boards. When the other person called into question has 59 posts and at least 29 of them mention something he sells, I think that my 74 to 700 ratio isn't too bad. Thanks for keeping tabs on me

[edmann]

Originally posted by atticus
Relentless beatings? Must have missed that one.....

sorry David - a little humor there (thinly disguised perhaps) - and glad I was not one of the beaters - but yeah man, beatings! Inflammed and denigrating volatile anger-posts re:who-promotes-what and for what reason, and if they happen to be a manufacturer or dealer etc - well documented within these archives and (as I remember it ) those of other forums too, and I remember you (among others) being a target, and perhaps the name Apogee rings a bell. I will say that I do find myself begining to become skeptical just because of posts from manufacturers and/or dealers who promote their own products. It is best left for others to say IMO.

I have always appreciated the fact that you were simultaneously willing to recommend Lynx, but in truth, your very position (job) puts you in a pre-weakened position w/re to any recommendations, and that has nothing to do with your know-how or intentions - it is just a caveat of the gig.

I do notice that your posts are less promotional since those horrific flame episodes, for what that is worth.

- and to be fair your posts have contained much valuable info

I know it is a balancing act...

Ed

[atticus]

Ed,

Well there were attempted beatings, yeah, but I think that I made it through ok. I guess that as I have gotten older and wiser I have learned how to do things better. I understand your skepticisim, and I respect it. It is a balancing act indeed, and I guess we all wobble a bit from time to time. FWIW, I now work for Benchmark gratis, and have for some time now, simply because they are an organization that I hold in the highest possible regard, and I would honestly do anything for the people that work there. Thanks a lot for your reply.

[Unknown soldier]

For what it's worth, I did have the apogee DA16 for a couple of weeks and dumped in back on ebay. It was not bad, but the sound (at 48K) was not the advancement over my fosted D1624 stock converters that I was hoping for. Maybe the next generation X series will do it....

Really though - has digital reached a the ceiling as far as sound quality? How much better can it get? In three years from now, will we have conversion that's so transparent we won't even know it's digital?

[kevinc]

I think the key then is to make it cheaper.

Despite some peoples annoying shit I do think Apogees going in the right direction with this.

If they keep up with the advancements guys like Prism and Lavry are going to have to find a way to get cheaper too.

If there only 5 % better (whatever the hell that means) for hundreds more per channel their business might drop off because even guys who would pay the money wont if there isn`t a significant difference in quality.

[Bobalou]

Originally posted by kevinc
I think the key then is to make it cheaper.

EXACTLY!!

how is it that Kurzweil can come out with an effects unit (Rumour/Mangler), Oh and what a coinsidence, you can use it as a standalone 2 channel A/D/A for $450.00? sure its 48k max, but many reviewers are comparing its quality to the $1500.00 Lucid combo AD9624/DA9624. quite a difference in cost I would say! buy the Rumour ADA and get an effects unit free!

Lucid has always been deamed a very respectable converter Co. and then there was Fletcher who recomended someone in his forum to cancell the order for the Rosetta800 and get the KSP-8 as an 8 channel ADA "as its converters are that good"

I can look look at or inside a GR ME-1NV, Vintech, etc. and understand there price point. the build quality is as obvious as its sound...Regarding converter boxes, I wonder what Kurzweil discovered?

[kevinc]

IZ is a good example also.

If you buy the $7,000 Project package with the Classic converters you get 24 channels of conversion that a lot of people compare very favorably to the Prism 8 channel model that goes for $10,000


You get 3 times the amount of top of the line converters + The steadiest HD recorder there is right now + a built in DAW.


If they found a way to release the converters on there own and keep them as inexpensive they`d really have something.

But as of now it isn`t economical to them for some reason.

[Boogle]

Originally posted by kevinc
IZ is a good example also.


If they found a way to release the converters on there own and keep them as inexpensive they`d really have something.

But as of now it isn`t economical to them for some reason.

Never did understand that. I'm pretty sure it could work if they wanted it to....

[RichT]

Originally posted by kevinc
Kittonian you are the Spam master.

I don`t know how you get away with this shit around here.
Usually people come down harder on guys that talk up shit they sell.

Everytime anyone mentions converters or Apogee your there spamming away.

You should learn something from Atticus from Benchmark.
(and other people too but he comes to mind because it`s converters were talking about)

He`s a lot cooler about this stuff and just gives info instead of acting like a salesweasel.

I'm glad you said that, I was beginning to think it was just me...

[edmann]

Originally posted by Bobalou

Kurzweil can come out with an effects unit (Rumour/Mangler), Oh and what a coinsidence, you can use it as a standalone 2 channel A/D/A for $450.00? sure its 48k max, but many reviewers are comparing its quality to the $1500.00 Lucid combo

I just got a Mangler. The converters are GREAT! Very smooth, balanced and musical - comparing with other mid-range stuff I have around is amazing - the diff. Stuff like( prerecorded) reverbs suddenly sound full and beautiful, and the hi-hats, cyms etc go from ruff sounding to delicate and detailed - can hear much more nuance between the strokes

[edmann]

Originally posted by atticus
Ed,

Well there were attempted beatings, yeah, but I think that I made it through ok. I guess that as I have gotten older and wiser I have learned how to do things better. I understand your skepticisim, and I respect it. It is a balancing act indeed, and I guess we all wobble a bit from time to time. FWIW, I now work for Benchmark gratis, and have for some time now, simply because they are an organization that I hold in the highest possible regard, and I would honestly do anything for the people that work there. Thanks a lot for your reply.

thank you David.

best wishes

Ed

[johnnyblotter]

that Kurzweil stuff does sound interesting. Hey ed, I wonder if they'd be an improvement over my rme multiface...I was sort of considering a pair of A/D's, but I wasn't convinced that the additional clarity or whatever would be worth spending upwards of $800. However I also need an effects box,so I'm thinking of maybe killing two birds w/one stone...how do you like the efx?

[kevinc]

The plate reverbs in the KSP-8 and Rumour are better than a lot of the more pricier boxes.

The Rumour in particular is about 1/4 of the price of a new PCM 91 and a lot of people think it blows the Lexicon away.

[johnnyblotter]

interesting, I need to hear this thing

[Clueless]

Originally posted by kevinc
The plate reverbs in the KSP-8 and Rumour are better than a lot of the more pricier boxes.

The Rumour in particular is about 1/4 of the price of a new PCM 91 and a lot of people think it blows the Lexicon away.

This is my first post. Hello! I'm in the market for some A/D converters. Why? I bought a used Lexicon 960L that's AES/EBU only and I want to interface it to my Midas Venice (soon to be Verona) console. At first blush, the Avalon Rosetta 800 looks like the right set of inputs and outputs at 96K, but with all the negative comments about Apogee and positive comments about other stuff...should I buy a KSP8 just for conversion purposes (and get *that* EFX for free)? The Kurzweil website is amazingly limited in the information they provide...

Note: I also have an H8000 on order, so its not like I *need* other EFX.

[atticus]

Originally posted by Clueless
This is my first post. Hello! I'm in the market for some A/D converters. Why? I bought a used Lexicon 960L that's AES/EBU only and I want to interface it to my Midas Venice (soon to be Verona) console. At first blush, the Avalon Rosetta 800 looks like the right set of inputs and outputs at 96K, but with all the negative comments about Apogee and positive comments about other stuff...should I buy a KSP8 just for conversion purposes (and get *that* EFX for free)? The Kurzweil website is amazingly limited in the information they provide...

Note: I also have an H8000 on order, so its not like I *need* other EFX.

Just curious, but doesn't Lexicon make an analog interface for the 960? Not that I wouldn't want to sell you some converters, but one of the Lexi I/O's might be more cost effective for you.

[tunesmith]

Originally posted by kevinc
Kittonian you are the Spam master.

I don`t know how you get away with this shit around here.
Usually people come down harder on guys that talk up shit they sell.

Everytime anyone mentions converters or Apogee your there spamming away.

You should learn something from Atticus from Benchmark.
(and other people too but he comes to mind because it`s converters were talking about)

He`s a lot cooler about this stuff and just gives info instead of acting like a salesweasel.

No rebuttal?


Wow.


You're momma's an astronaut. Take that!!!!

And I really like my Apogee 800 and I still agree with all the critique of your posts, dude.

Learn from Nathan and, hell, even Fletcher. We're cool people and smart people and live up to it.

Tunes

[edmann]

Originally posted by Clueless
... At first blush, the Avalon Rosetta 800 looks like the right set of inputs and outputs at 96K, but with all the negative comments about Apogee and positive comments about other stuff...

Greetings Clueless,

w/o going into much detail, brief history of Apogee converters: They were great and the standard by which all else was measured (early 90's thru about 1995-6-7 with the Apogee AD 1000 being top of the heap. I had one and it was really amazing - but a 16/20 bit unit only - those were pre-24 bit days). Then Apogee produced some models (original Rosetta, not the 800) that did not live up to their previous high-water marks, while simultaneasouly other boutique converter manufacturers sprung up who made some great products. People get real opinionated bash-willing on these boards, especially w/re to Audio Quality, and Apogee took a lot of backlash- heat on the forums, most of it unfair IMO, but whatever.

Apogee Mini-Me and Rosetta 800 marks a new level of very high quality from Apogee, and I have only read and heard very postive commentary about the those products.

That said - if you are not working above 48khz, and need only 2 channels of great i/o The Deal right now is a Kurzweil Rumour or Mangler - put it in bypass and use the Analog and S/PDIF i/o. and you have a set of killer converters for about $500.00
I just got a Mangler, and I must say that I am extremely impressed. KSP8 will give you 4 - 8 channels of the same conversion quality - but again a 48k ceiling.

good luck in your quest

Ed

[Clueless]

I do everything at 48kHz right now, but am building to be able to do 96kHz. Sounds like the Rosetta 800 is the ticket. Yes, Lexicon does make converters for the 960L, and if they made 4-in and 4-out for $2500, I'd buy it. But to pay $2500 each for 8-in (one bank) and 8-out (the other bank) seems excessive.

[chap]

For those compelled to bash the Apogees..
try locking your current converters to Big Ben and
see if you still need to swing the bat as hard.
sheesh.
(don't work for anyone except me, not trying to sell jack)

[kevinc]

To be fair Chap I was bashing Kittonian not Apogee.

I`m really thinking of getting a Rosetta 800 myself actually.

If I could afford Benchmark or Lavry I`d probably get those instead but I think Apogee`s where the line crosses at affordability to sound quality.

[chap]

I hear ya. Gosh, I get cranky over nothing these days.

[Buddhaman]

This is my first post. Hello! I'm in the market for some A/D converters. Why? I bought a used Lexicon 960L that's AES/EBU only and I want to interface it to my Midas Venice (soon to be Verona) console. At first blush, the Avalon Rosetta 800 looks like the right set of inputs and outputs at 96K, but with all the negative comments about Apogee and positive comments about other stuff...should I buy a KSP8 just for conversion purposes (and get *that* EFX for free)? The Kurzweil website is amazingly limited in the information they provide...

One thing that must be remembered is that the KSP-8 is not bidirectional....you get 8 channels that are gonna work 1 way at a time...plus there are only 4 analog ins and outs on the base model....so you have 4 channels of conversion in each direction...

Now if you expand it by buying the AES/EBU option board, you can run 8 channels AES/EBU out of the 960L and mix them to 4 channels of the Venice...

I just thought of something....are you running INTO the 960L analog or digital??? If its analog then you are screwed you need 8 channels in and 8 channels out....or you can run the 960L in dual stereo cascade mode (4 in 4 out)...look for the older swissonic stuff for cheap....clocked to the 960L it will probably sound excellent...here's a link Swissonic Blowouts

That reminds me of something----aren't clocks the most important part of the converter chain---whether internal or external I am a firm believer that the Clock is the key!!!

Buddhaman Rambling