Slam users what´s your noise floor experience with the Slam?

[Ruphus]

Right after getting the box I was wondering about the noise floor. Made comparison to my Demeter and found indeed the Slam! to be quite noisy.
Then I bounced examples and send them to EveAnna. They said everything would be alright and that levels weren´t aligned correspondinly and that there is subjectivity with volume levels and such which on principle is alright.

I said to myself, alright you are not experienced enough and that will be the case, also as I love this boxes sound in general very much I let the case aside. ( And I would have had a hard time sending it back anyway.)

These days however I am traking a not too loud voice with a U195. This mic is known for low output, but these days I´m not sure whether for that low like what I am having here. With that vocal I get only around -30 dB into the DAW at its best barely -20 dB, all that with the singer being 20 cm away from the mic.

Well, the way it is I have to crank gain and output somewhat on the Slam ( gain around 12 o´clock, ouput 4 o´clock ).

What can I say, the noise floor just appears not acceptable for a good device. I compared again to my other two pres and they both are WAY less noisy. ( Even the cheapo Mindprint is remarkably low in noise [ as solid state build anyway less prone ] )

What do you say? Might I have an unregualr unit or is this just normal for the Slam?

I´m really interested to know.

Thanks

Ruphus

[Buddhaman]

my SLAM! is whisper quiet....practically silent

You may have a bad tube or something out of calibration!

Its as quiet or more than my Daking 55270's were....

all I hear is the sweet mellifluous tone....

good luck and keep us SLAM!atics updated

Buddhaman

[Ruphus]

Thanks Buddha, for the feedback!
What´s about cranked in- and output, have you had to use it this way yet? ( Like witha ribbon or an U195?)

Ruphus

[duaneadam]

Ditto, mines dead quiet.

Duaneadam

[Ruphus]

Tell me please, guys, would you consider this normal? Tracked through a U195, distance and tweaks as mentioned above.

Sample

Muchas gracias,

Ruphus

[duaneadam]

If you are using the output controls it means the limiter section is engaged which also means you are working with 80 db's of gain (60db's mic pre & 20 db's of make up gain).

I don't know how much gain your cheapo pres have but I would guess not 80 db's which could explain why they seem less noisy.

I took a quick look at the specs of the U195 and it has a s/n ratio of 71db's so you may be picking up some noise there.

If you have the input at 12:00 and the output at 4:00 (with limiters) you are picking up some more noise there. Trying turning down the output or better yet, recording without the limiters, and try getting more gain from the source.

It could be this isn't the right mic for the job.

In listening to your sample, I don't think the SLAM is working incorrectly, it sounds like optimizing the s/n ratio is the answer.

Hope that helps,

Duaneadam

[Ruphus]

Why do you think using output control would imply the limiters?
They were switched off.
And naturally the same mic was used with the other pres too. The Demeter has 60 dB as well. ( With "cheapo" I meant the Mindprint.)
Optimizing the S/N ratio is what I am about. Lowering gain and volume ... I´d love to, but who would be wanting to track with under -30 in the DAW? ( I could engage the convertors soft saturation to achieve more level, but that´s not exactly what I would think of as a work around on principle.)
How does the sample appear now with the discribed circumstances?

Ruphus

[Shaman]

Recorded vocals with the SLAM some days ago and wondered, how stone quiet it was...

[duaneadam]

Why do you think using output control would imply the limiters?

I have an analog version and when you bypass the limiters (blue lights off) this also bypasses the make up gain output controls when using the mic inputs.

Is your SLAM different?

If not then with your output controls engaged (limiters switches on) you have up to 80db's of gain.

Point is, I don't think there is a problem with your SLAM. Perhaps with a quiet source and a low output mic with a low s/n ratio you will pick up some noise. The SLAM has a noise floor of 85db's so its not entirely invisible although in your sample I heard more background/room noise than anything.

duaneadam

[Ruphus]

Err ... I wondered why there seem not to happen too much with the ouput control while being only on pres ... embarrassing ... Thanks for making that clear to me.
About the sample you are right, as the booths door was open you could hear the PC noise somewhat too. I could put up a better sample ( however gotta ask a friend of mine first who hosts webspace for me, because DL access seems restcricted somehow at the moment.)

I can´t totally exclude failure due to subjectivity about volume levels ( that´s why I am very much interested to hear other users judge about the S/N I have here with my box ), but so far it appears quite like if my Slam! would be very noisy.

As soon as I get that file upload functioning I would like to ask you guys again whether you would confirm this to be normal.
Besides I can´t believe the U195 to be unusable for low voices, with my other pres the S/N stays just fine with that mic and source.

Thanks so far!

Ruphus

[Bruce Keen]

unless you're squashing like crazy the slam should be really quiet. have you tried the other input?

cheers
Bruce

[Ruphus]

Hi Bruce,

I hadn´t thought of trying, because from other applications it had appeared like both channels to be quite similar. But as you said so I should indeed try the other channel explicitely with this mic and source.
Thanks for the idea!

Ruphus

[Ruphus]

Ok, here are the examples, this time with no environmental noise. ( And Bruce, the channels are indeed very much the same, this time I used the other one just to make sure.) It´s each time with counting at start, so that to have orientation about the signal. ( Yes I have a cold as you can hear )

Here is the Slam! with the U195, gain set at 12:00
Slam at 12:00
At that setting input signal into DAW is around -30 dB.

Here is the Slam set to 01:00.
Slam at 01:00
With this setting the DAW input reaches -20 dB.

Here is the same mic and same convertor with another tube pre at a setting trying to match similar output level like with the Slam 01:00 example.
Other pre ~ 01:00

Due to its different characteristic the signal through this pre sounds a bit more distant, but I think the volume captured is relatively same with the Slam! example. Note the difference in noise.

Please, guys, give me your feedback, I need to know whether my unit is out of speck ( respectively I want less noise with it ).

Thank you for feedback!

Thanks,

Ruphus

[Ruphus]

Come on guys, don´t be so reticent to li´l cuddly Ruphus.

Seriously, these are small files on a fast server. It would take you a couple of minutes to spend for me who is left with a somewhat essential appearing question.

The mere contributions saying that their Slam!s were dead quite sound promissing, but can´t really help me to find out whether the problem I have were the application or the device.

Meanwhile I made sure that the U195 I have here is up to spec, which seems at least what the output is concerned.

I am ready to undertsand that vocalists´ SPL could differ hugely and that this mic just wouldn´t fit for a low source, but I would be needing your feedback first to be ensured.
On the other hand if there was something wrong with my Slam! unit I wouldn´t want to miss that fact and see what could be done about it.

I hope you would understand and share your wisdom.

Thanx,

Ruphus

PS: The U195 is 150 Ohm, Max SPL: 125dB @0.5%, Noise: 23dB (unweighted) 12dB ("A" weighted), S/N ratio: 71dB (unweighted) 82dB ("A" weighted)

[Ruphus]

bump

[natpub]

One wonders why you don't simply email/call Hutch or EvaAnna? Perhaps you have a wiring or grounding problem...


KT

[Ruphus]

I asked them already. See my initial post.

It would be very helpful for me to have other users listening and tell me whether they would expect equal results in a similar application with their unit. So far it doesn´t appear like it could be a grounding problem. Didn´t have any in the past. Also the unit is mounted 1 1/2 U away from any other device and the power supply is placed safe as well, so chances should be minimized of them to be radiated.

Ruphus

[Ruphus]

Hey Bruce, Buddha, Duaneadam, someone; got another minute? Please.

Thanks.

Ruphus

[duaneadam]

There is a certain degree of irony in trying to see how quiet you can make a unit named SLAM! Not trying to Simonize you but I just don't hear a problem. There is maybe a very very small amount of tube noise although someone recommended a L/R comparison so if that turned out equal then its doubtful the tubes are at fault. In your samples it only appears to be a problem when there is no source signal. Have you found it noticeable when recording a performance? Did you send the sound clips to Manley? Their customer service is top notch.

Duaneadam

[Ruphus]

Hi Duaneadam,

First of all big thanks that you took the time to listen.thumbsup

Yes, it indeed sounds a bit ironical. However, its name I think relates to its compressors while I´m about the noise of the pres.

Nevertheless, any voice experienced with this box saying that what I´m getting here was normal gives me relief. It would be much easier to realize that I am expecting too much / or being too stupid, than getting on the route to complain to either the dealer or the manufacturer.

Yes, I have found it noticeable during performance, subtle but certainly there, and most obvious naturally at fade outs.

It is that when I had to crank it up for a quiet voice the noise floor seemed considerable to me. Together with the fact that my other pres appear ( subjectively ) quieter I was a bit concerned. And who would be wanting less quality than assumably possible / standard of the box in question?

Since I have the Slam! it hasn´t come to work too much, yet ( there wasn´t much to track ). With my first trials I was surprised about the noise and send samples to EveAnna. She said that things seemed alright. Afterwards I had some scratch tracks with two singers with relatively loud voices and acoustic guitars and everything appeared just fine.

Now, last time while tracking a quiet voice I started wondering again whether this could be really all one can get and this time I wanted some user opinions too to ensure as much impressions as possible.

I must say that what you heard in those clips that I posted still seems too noisy to me ( and the output despite the cranked gain with maximal -20 dB too low ), but the practical conclusion might be that for quiet sources it could be needing another mic to achieve a noise floor that I would be contended with. I am already saving up for one.

After all to hear one more time ( and maybe again if other slammies might also come to the same findings ... ) that it would be up to specs gives my wobbling heart peace.

Thank you for helping me across the street.
Very appreciated!

Ruphus