2 Channel Mic Pre for Acoustic Guitar and Vocals

[noexitrecords]

Well, I am looking to invest in my first high quality mic pre. I need a two channel pre for use primarily on acoustic guitar and vocals, acoustic rock/punk and folk. My budget is somewhere around the $2,000 mark.

There are so many choices and so many good choices that I don't know where to begin. Great River? API? John Hardy? A Designs? DAV? Something else?

I am currently trapped out in the tundra that is Alaska and don't have an opportunity to test out these products first hand --- so any suggestions, tips, comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
David

[De chromium cob]

Originally Posted by noexitrecords

I don't know where to begin. Great River? API? John Hardy? A Designs? DAV? Something else?

Yes, all of those will work very well.

[davebl@dircon.c]

In the acoustic area try DAV and Crookwood first. Theres a thread running on this board with usefull samples but with accoustic music that show the diferences well.

[warhead]

David, what kind of mics do you own?

What preamps do you use, and what do you wish were different about them?

That may get you more suggestions that make sense.

War

[Bump Music]

My advice would be, go for the API. There are a ton of great pre's out there... but the API is a standard. As your first pre, I would go for a something that has stood the test of time. For you second pre, go for something cool and unique.

Plus, if you get the API, you can get a lunch box with it, and use that box for future pre's each only costing around $600-$700.

Good luck.

[noexitrecords]

Originally Posted by warhead

David, what kind of mics do you own?

What preamps do you use, and what do you wish were different about them?

That may get you more suggestions that make sense.

War

War,

You are correct; more information would likely be helpful. Currently, my gear is fairly sparse because
I liquidated my recording gear and desktop computer prior to moving. I had been using some older Echo PCI cards, their built-in preamps, and some Mackie mixer preamps. This system worked but was never perfect and it was definitely time to upgrade.

That being said, here is what I have as of right now.

As of right now, I have a Macbook Pro and no audio interface. So, I am looking to start more or less from scratch. I believe I have decided to forego the "all in one" interfaces and instead look into buying quality individual components.

The mics I currently own and use are a Rode Classic Tube Microphone and a Rode NT1000 condenser. I am looking into purchasing a Josephson C42 or Peluso CEMC6 or something similar.

As far as what sort of sound I am looking for out of a preamp: The previous preamps I have used have always sounded either too muddy or too thin for my tastes. So, I am seeking something that is in between: pretty clean and open but not too harsh or brittle, fairly transparent but still somehwat powerful. Something that is fairly balanced I suppose --- something that can convey a lot of the subtleties of an acoustic guitar but still maintain some punch and force since I will be recording a lot of hybrid acoustic rock/punk music. This is asking a lot and perhaps I am asking too much.

Any way, your feedback is, as always, much appreciated.

[AllBread]

I have API's and the Great River MP-2NV.

The Great River is the one that gets used on everything. If I was going to buy two channels for two grand without hearing them, I would (and I did) buy the Great River. No regrets.

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by noexitrecords

The previous preamps I have used have always sounded either too muddy or too thin for my tastes. So, I am seeking something that is in between: pretty clean and open but not too harsh or brittle, fairly transparent but still somehwat powerful. Something that is fairly balanced I suppose --- something that can convey a lot of the subtleties of an acoustic guitar but still maintain some punch and force since I will be recording a lot of hybrid acoustic rock/punk music. This is asking a lot and perhaps I am asking too much.

No, not asking too much.

You can hear samples of voice and acoustic guitar with Gordon, Pendulum, A-Designs, and DAV here:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=114840


Also samples of male vocal on 26 different mics, and (overdubbed to guitar done one time), all with Gordon, here:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=92519

2-ch Gordon is more than $2k though, so may not suit your budget. I sold all my other leftover preamps (that I was never going to use again anyway) to afford these, no second thoughts about that at all.

I'm not in any haven of pro audio gear availability either.... you can always get gear in to demo, if you are serious about it.


Steve

[Oldone]

I have been very happy with the performance of the Portico 5012 on vocals and guitar. You can pick them up used for $1200-$1500. Even new at $1700 they are a bargain.

[TonyBelmont]

Well, isn't this about the time somebody just has to say...... the PACIFICA!

I think any of the units you mentioned are capable of sounding very good.

Judging by your needs, I would have to lean towards the API A2D, as it will also give you an upgrade in the converter department, and is well within your budget.

[noexitrecords]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Well, isn't this about the time somebody just has to say...... the PACIFICA!

I think any of the units you mentioned are capable of sounding very good.

Judging by your needs, I would have to lean towards the API A2D, as it will also give you an upgrade in the converter department, and is well within your budget.

Actually, I had been considering the API A2D since it would serve both my preamp and converter needs. However, I thought (1) I might be better off with a Mytek converter, and (2) I had read that the API preamps can be tricky on vocals. Any thoughts?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by noexitrecords

Actually, I had been considering the API A2D since it would serve both my preamp and converter needs. However, I thought (1) I might be better off with a Mytek converter, and (2) I had read that the API preamps can be tricky on vocals. Any thoughts?

I think the API converter is of very high quality and the A2D would be a great way to spend your money. I also think that the differences between this level of conversion are much smaller than people might lead you to believe.

But, as far as the API preamps. They sound great on vocals. I've used them on vocals in the past and know of some classic recordings that used nothing but API preamps on vocals. I think the Rode Classic would probably work out very well with those pre's. It all depends on the color you are looking for, though.

[noexitrecords]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I think the API converter is of very high quality and the A2D would be a great way to spend your money. I also think that the differences between this level of conversion are much smaller than people might lead you to believe.

But, as far as the API preamps. They sound great on vocals. I've used them on vocals in the past and know of some classic recordings that used nothing but API preamps on vocals. I think the Rode Classic would probably work out very well with those pre's. It all depends on the color you are looking for, though.

Thanks for the information. I will put the API A2D back on my list of units to seriously consider.

If you have a second, I would certainly be interested in hearing what sort of color you think an API pre and Rode Classic would provide.

[Jaguar Dreams]

The Langevin DVC is killer. 2 channels, each channel has hi and lo shelf plus limiting. Running a good tube mic through it does great things for vocals and acoustic guitar.

-Jaguar

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by noexitrecords

Thanks for the information. I will put the API A2D back on my list of units to seriously consider.

If you have a second, I would certainly be interested in hearing what sort of color you think an API pre and Rode Classic would provide.

The API will bring more of the midrange of that microphone out. It will be semi-aggressive sounding and will not smooth the transients. It should sound good on vocals & acoustic.

I think it will help give you the sound that you are asking for in this post:

pretty clean and open but not too harsh or brittle, fairly transparent but still somehwat powerful. Something that is fairly balanced I suppose

A Neve would be another good choice, but will have a more colored and rounder sound. That can turn into what some perceive as muddy when tracks are stacked. I tracked some vocals years ago with the Classic and a Neve and it sounded great, though... But that would exceed your budget, as something like the Aurora Audio GTQ2 is $2599.

[noexitrecords]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

The API will bring more of the midrange of that microphone out. It will be semi-aggressive sounding and will not smooth the transients. It should sound good on vocals & acoustic.

I think it will help give you the sound that you are asking for in this post:



A Neve would be another good choice, but will have a more colored and rounder sound. That can turn into what some perceive as muddy when tracks are stacked. I tracked some vocals years ago with the Classic and a Neve and it sounded great, though... But that would exceed your budget, as something like the Aurora Audio GTQ2 is $2599.

Thanks again for the information.

Hm, the API A2D does sound promising, but I am a bit worried about it enhancing the mids. I tend to stack a lot of back up vocals (think three part harmonies double tracked) and am scared of muddying up the mix by stacking enhanced mids on top of enhanced mids.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by noexitrecords

Thanks again for the information.

Hm, the API A2D does sound promising, but I am a bit worried about it enhancing the mids. I tend to stack a lot of back up vocals (think three part harmonies double tracked) and am scared of muddying up the mix by stacking enhanced mids on top of enhanced mids.

Well, the Pacifica would have a little less mid push and more open top, so maybe that would be the ideal situation for you. It won't be muddy or too thin. I think you are on the right track with either of these choices. But, taking everything into account, it's quite likely you would prefer the Pacifica of all the units discussed.

They are all excellent units.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Jaguar Dreams

The Langevin DVC is killer. 2 channels, each channel has hi and lo shelf plus limiting. Running a good tube mic through it does great things for vocals and acoustic guitar.

-Jaguar

The DVC is an excellent suggestion. It has a clean and kind of sparkly preamp with a sheen to it, and that EQ is great at opening up the top on things like guitar and voice. The low end shelf would also work well in thickening things up a bit David, since you don't like thin sounds. The ELOP limiters are nice on vocals, although I suspect you might not dig them too much on acoustic guitar.

War

[noexitrecords]

Originally Posted by Jaguar Dreams

The Langevin DVC is killer. 2 channels, each channel has hi and lo shelf plus limiting. Running a good tube mic through it does great things for vocals and acoustic guitar.

-Jaguar

Hm, I hadn't heard of that unit before. I will look into it. Thanks.

[noexitrecords]

Well, I am still undecided and would appreciate any other thoughts or comments people may have. I think I am leaning towards the A Designs Pacifica, but I am not set on it. Anybody have comments about Great River? DAV?

[woomanmoomin]

The Pacifica seems to me to have done pretty well as far as this thread is concerned and I'm now thinking I might get one as an all-purpose pre (if there is such a thing). Only judging from GS discussions, I would definitely prefer it to the Great River for an application like yours, noexitrecords. (I'm biased, as I *get the impression* the Great River would be too dark for my tastes even on electric guitar.)

[noexitrecords]

Originally Posted by woomanmoomin

The Pacifica seems to me to have done pretty well as far as this thread is concerned and I'm now thinking I might get one as an all-purpose pre (if there is such a thing). Only judging from GS discussions, I would definitely prefer it to the Great River for an application like yours, noexitrecords. (I'm biased, as I *get the impression* the Great River would be too dark for my tastes even on electric guitar.)

Really? So the Great River is dark --- not good for my purposes if that is true. Thanks for the info.

[woomanmoomin]

Maybe not dark, but darker.

[hurricaneE]

I don't think there's anything muddy about the APIs. They're muscular in the mids, but lean like Bruce Lee, as opposed to flabby like George Foreman. I hope that made sense ... Converter wise, the mids on the A2D were a lot more natural (less hyped) than the Lavry Blue and my modded Masterlink (I know I've written that a million times on here ...). -E

Originally Posted by noexitrecords

Thanks again for the information.

Hm, the API A2D does sound promising, but I am a bit worried about it enhancing the mids. I tend to stack a lot of back up vocals (think three part harmonies double tracked) and am scared of muddying up the mix by stacking enhanced mids on top of enhanced mids.

[woomanmoomin]

I don't think the kind of frequencies you'd be stacking up if you used the API for everything would make for a muddy effect, exactly. The API seems to my ears to accentuate the presence area. I still wouldn't want to track everything through an API, but I don't think it would sound muddy. Probably more grating or hyper-aggressive or something. I guess something with more low-mid emphasis could give you the mud.

[AllBread]

Originally Posted by noexitrecords

Really? So the Great River is dark --- not good for my purposes if that is true. Thanks for the info.

Allright, I guess I'll just be the "Great River" guy for this thread - since I have both it and the API I feel qualified to compare them.

I don't find the GR to be a "Dark" pre at all, although it does have a bit of a "caramel" tone to it. I also don't find the API to be mid-foward either. To my ears, it's actually scooped in the mids and has a lot of low end (lower-mids perhaps - but I feel i'ts scooped in the 400 to 800 range) and presence, which to me makes it ideal for Bass and Drums - you get the body and the attack. I find the API's to be more aggresive than the GR and I find the GR to be smoother (especially on the top end, which makes it great for vox).

The Great River, on the other hand, can get a lot of transformer-style mid saturatution depending on how you set the gain. If that's not appropriate for the part, you simply dial back the input gain, crank the output, and it opens up a lot and you get less color in the mids. Combine that with the loading and inpedence switches and you have a pre-amp with a lot of versatility.

I love both the API and the Great River and am very happy to have both. Having both, though, I will say that I use the Great River on vocals and guitar (both acoustic and electric) almost exclusively. Since that's the applications you asked about, that's the recomendation that I am making. And, again, if I only had one I would want it to be the Great River since it's so versatile.

Find someone who will ship you one and take it back if you don't like it. Have them ship both units and spend some time with them. Or, wait until you find them both on ebay for a great price and get them both. Sell the one you can't live without later. You'll loose a hundred bucks or so, but you'll know exactly why you own the pre-amp that you do and will be able to happily continue making your music without worrying about the gear.

Good luck!

[hurricaneE]

Y'know, somehow I got the impresison that NoX wanted an aggressive pre for the vocals and acoustic, but looking back through the thread, I don't see that. Given that, like AllBread above, I don't really like the API for Acoustic or Vocals, although it's certainly acceptable on both.

I tend to use my TG-2 for acoustics and Portico for vocals. Given your desired sound, NoX, I think the Portico (without silk engaged) could be a great pre for you. My other great utility player is the Hardy M-1, but I think the Portico might be a better match (between those two), given your preferences. -E

[Johnkenn]

Eh - it's all subjective...Beautiful shite in, beautiful shite out...Buy the Pacifica and get it over with. You know, there's a thread with audio examples of the Pacifica, Vintech, Great River and Buzz if you do a search...

[noexitrecords]

Thanks everyone for all of your input; you've been a great help and I really do appreciate it.

I've been spending a lot of time listening to all of the samples posted on this sight and I believe I have narrowed down my hunt for a preamp to a few units.

One last question, and then I will be ready to make my decision. Does anybody have experience with the Gordon preamps (I believe one person in this thread already mentioned these pres, but I would like to hear from others)? The few samples I have listened to were pretty flattering. The Gordons are, of course, slightly out of my price range, but I might be able to justify the added expense if people thought that these units were worth it.

As always, thanks for sharing your experiences.

David

[squeegybug]

Some user comments and reviews for Gordon, from when I was chasing information.

Steve