Mix Dynamics

[Improv]

Lately I've really been paying a lot of attention to "big name" tracks that start/end small and build to a very large climax that actually sound good. They're getting rarer and rarer. I'm getting pretty consistent in maintaining a large image with a consistently sparse or dense mix.... the area in which I have trouble is the dynamic build. I either get the climax slamming and the build lacks luster, or the space is perfect then it hits a wall.

I mix in the box currently, but I've always had this issue on various formats as I deal with a lot of "big build" music. I do generally mix into a 2-bus compressor, but that's not the wall I'm hitting. I don't consider my medium the limitation, merely my perspective.

Any tips or approaches for this type of material? Do you start with the big section and work backwards, or do you work into a preset gainstage with an absolute limit? Is it even gain staging or just workflow? Do you make it "too" dynamic and level it in mastering? How much energy are you adding with rides? Do you let the vocal sit on top to start then get swallowed a bit by the music? And so on and so forth...

I need space management advice, and as always, any is greatly appreciated. I know this is pretty subjective stuff and it all "depends", but hopefully some good bits will come from the posed question. All I know is sometimes I get lucky and it just works out, but I'd love to have a foolproof headroom workflow situation so it would never be an issue.

A standout in this category that I've found is Keane's first album... on the UK version there's a track called "On a Day Like Today" that just keeps getting bigger and bigger. It sounds big when it starts, but it never hits a wall (well, it kinda does... but it does so in a very graceful, unnoticeable way as you listen to it). Amazing mix there!

[djui5]

Always start at the biggest point, then work around that. A lot of these tracks are more building of instruments than anything, adding more instrumentation as the song builds.
Keep in mind db levels as you go. The softest part could be 15db quieter than the loudest, etc.

[Improv]

How the heck did this end up in High End? My bad.... please move as necessary...though I'm not sure which forum is best for mix-specific advice anyway?

[gainreduction]

Was the Keane track mixed by Spike Stent or am I mistaken ? Gotta listen to that again.

I've worked quite hard on this matter myself. Let's skip the obvious that the biggest part is it needs to be played and arranged that way or it'll be like trying to wake up the dead.

The next obvious thing is you need to hear the mix that way in your head.

The biggest challenge is compression. You want the track to be dynamic but you still want it to punch. Working backwards from the loudest part is a good approach for setting 2-buss and/or subgroup compressors, aswell as for general gainstaging. This is quite important because you don't want to have your 2-buss comp (if you're using one) to push back your big chorus. I guess this is what you refer to as "running in to a wall". Most likely the 2-buss comp will do nothing in the verses and that's fine.

Work harder on the dynamics of the individual tracks using automation and/or compression. Parallel compression on some individual tracks can also open up new doors to dynamic expression. Try to keep the compressors in their sweet spot, automate going in to the comp if necessary.

Once you get a good static mix going, and you need to feel the build on this level already, you will be best friends with automation. Even on the master fader if necessary.

Another trick is to play with eq or eq-ed elements. Bring up high-frequency stuff in the chorus to get a subtle effect that the chorus is a little brighter than the verses. It helps the chorus to feel like a chorus.

Reverbs and delays are a very deep subject, a thread on it's own, but in short use them for contrast. Add dimension to the chorus and keep the verse dryer and more intimate, just as an example. There are lots of tricks on this.

Keep things moving, keep it alive. Change L-R positions on some elements from one part to another. Ride levels on strings and organs if they are samples, they can easily get static.

And never lose the vocal...

What ultimately helped me a LOT in getting dynamic mixes where I want them was to rip off Michael Brauer's multi-buss compression technique, and spend a couple of years learning to master it and use it to my advantage...

I hope this makes sense and helps at least a little.

Good subject ! I'd like to learn more aswell.

[Improv]

Nice one... lots of great tips there, thanks!

I'm a riding fiend.... rides are definitely a key to mix dynamics that can't be "taught" on a web forum. But good points....

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Another trick is to play with eq or eq-ed elements. Bring up high-frequency stuff in the chorus to get a subtle effect that the chorus is a little brighter than the verses. It helps the chorus to feel like a chorus.

Sweet!

Originally Posted by gainreduction

And never lose the vocal...

Totally.... but should it always be as forefront as it is at the start of the song?

I think parallel compression might be a big key here. At the moment, I'm really only doing that (to GREAT effect) on acoustic drums. For some reason I've never mult-compressed other subgroups (other than bass, which sometimes goes through my drum bus). Perhaps more liberal use of this technique would open things up more?

[musicianof1]

I'm interested in this subject and wondered if anyone has any more input on it......

[riffmachine]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Was the Keane track mixed by Spike Stent or am I mistaken ? Gotta listen to that again.

I've worked quite hard on this matter myself. Let's skip the obvious that the biggest part is it needs to be played and arranged that way or it'll be like trying to wake up the dead.

The next obvious thing is you need to hear the mix that way in your head.

The biggest challenge is compression. You want the track to be dynamic but you still want it to punch. Working backwards from the loudest part is a good approach for setting 2-buss and/or subgroup compressors, aswell as for general gainstaging. This is quite important because you don't want to have your 2-buss comp (if you're using one) to push back your big chorus. I guess this is what you refer to as "running in to a wall". Most likely the 2-buss comp will do nothing in the verses and that's fine.

Work harder on the dynamics of the individual tracks using automation and/or compression. Parallel compression on some individual tracks can also open up new doors to dynamic expression. Try to keep the compressors in their sweet spot, automate going in to the comp if necessary.

Once you get a good static mix going, and you need to feel the build on this level already, you will be best friends with automation. Even on the master fader if necessary.

Another trick is to play with eq or eq-ed elements. Bring up high-frequency stuff in the chorus to get a subtle effect that the chorus is a little brighter than the verses. It helps the chorus to feel like a chorus.

Reverbs and delays are a very deep subject, a thread on it's own, but in short use them for contrast. Add dimension to the chorus and keep the verse dryer and more intimate, just as an example. There are lots of tricks on this.

Keep things moving, keep it alive. Change L-R positions on some elements from one part to another. Ride levels on strings and organs if they are samples, they can easily get static.

And never lose the vocal...

What ultimately helped me a LOT in getting dynamic mixes where I want them was to rip off Michael Brauer's multi-buss compression technique, and spend a couple of years learning to master it and use it to my advantage...

I hope this makes sense and helps at least a little.

Good subject ! I'd like to learn more aswell.

Great post thumbsup - paul

[spicemix]

It's a good post, but it'd be funny if the mastering engineer took one listen and just steamrollered all that advice with a multiband limiter.