Which hardware unit for tape saturation/drive (not subtle tape emulation)?

[MrVelvet]

Hi,

I'm looking for an outboard unit that gives me massive (when needed) hi-end tape-like saturation. Some years ago, I used the Steinberg Magneto plugin to achieve this on vocals. The effect is great but Magneto sounds anything but hi-end to me...

I mean that slightly compressing, yet glueing and driving effect that gives the source (vocals, guitars, anything) a nice gritty edge and brings it really up front...

I guess the Neve box would be too subtle and doesn't not really provide massive saturation - from what I read.

Would the Fatso be the right thing for that? I heard it years ago and remember I liked it, but haven't tried it ever since for just that purpose...

Or anything else?

Thanks a lot!!!!

[RadioMoo]

An Ampex 440 or a Studer A80 would probably give you what you want at a reasonable price. It's hardware.

[MrVelvet]

Thanks! Yeah, I thought of getting the real thing too... But I'm too involved in digital workflow to make that happen smoothly...

[radu.ionescu]

there are some boxes available from Rupert Neve Designs (5042 i think) and SPL Charisma that can provide you with some amount of saturation

[MrVelvet]

Thanks! Never tried it, but I always thought of the SPL Charisma as some kind of low-end box... Don't know why - but will check it out then!

Should specify my needs a bit - I don't need a massive amount of saturation in the sense of completely distorting a signal, I just don't want to have a subtle effect in the sense of "oh yeah, this sounds a tad more like tape when compared A/B". There should be some saturation available that brings the signal forward and giving it a nice edge - still nice sounding.

I don't want a box that has an overall very slight effect and sounds overdone all of a sudden. I thought that this would be the case with the Neve thing, just from the reviews here - but will check that out, too!

I already have the UA 2192 converter that gives me the general "analogue" feeling. Thought of the HEDD as well, which has a saturation effect available, but somehow I just didn't like the idea of having a digital algorithm doing this effect. At least not anymore, after upgrading from the plugin.

[gainreduction]

Fatso can be quite agessive if you want it to, give it a try. Good range from clean to dirty in that box.

Are they out of fashion now ?

[MrVelvet]

Yeah, I'll try that one I remember someone asking for something like the Fatso but a more hi-end sounding version of it... That kinda worried me a little thinking the Fatso is a "gets the job done" box but not something as audiophile as, say, a Chandler preamp or an LA2A compressor...

Then again that reminds me of talking stuff to death, so I better try the damn thing!!

[djui5]

Originally Posted by MrVelvet

Thanks! Yeah, I thought of getting the real thing too... But I'm too involved in digital workflow to make that happen smoothly...

You're willing to patch in outboard pieces, but not a tape machine?

[beechstudio]

Nothing beats the real thing! Get yourself a nice 2 trk reel to reel!

[treymonfauntre]

sounds like you're a bit too concerned with looking high end.

[drBill]

I know you said you're looking for hardware and high end, but if you're using PT HD, the Massey Tapehead plugin is definately worth checking out,

[djui5]

Originally Posted by drBill

I know you said you're looking for hardware and high end, but if you're using PT HD, the Massey Tapehead plugin is definately worth checking out,

[drBill]

Originally Posted by djui5

Well, here's another 5 thumbs up to your 5.




I can't live without Tapehead anymore. Although i have a HD system, if I didn't, I would probably have to buy one just for the Massey plug-ins.

[MrVelvet]

Thanks for chiming in, guys! I work with Nuendo, so no chance to check the Massey out...

@Using real tape: Am I right guessing that I would have to record on tape actually to get saturation, or just patch through? If the ladder was the case, I could use it without problems in my setup.

Yeah, I might be a little bit too worried about the high end-thing... It's just that I'm kind of a purist and don't want anything to "downgrade" my signal path...

Thanks!

[RadioMoo]

Originally Posted by MrVelvet

Thanks for chiming in, guys! I work with Nuendo, so no chance to check the Massey out...

Too bad; it's one of the best emulations of the desirable qualities of tape and tape machines out there.

Originally Posted by MrVelvet

@Using real tape: Am I right guessing that I would have to record on tape actually to get saturation, or just patch through? If the ladder was the case, I could use it without problems in my setup.

You'd have to actually use tape, but you could patch in and have the tape running - if you're talking about using it at mix time. If you want to process individual tracks, you could still use the tape machine in real time, but you'd have to compensate for the gap between the record and playback heads for those individual tracks.

Originally Posted by MrVelvet

I'm kind of a purist and don't want anything to "downgrade" my signal path...

Ok, so use tape, not a Fatso. The two I suggested seem to be the most widely available, and they're most definitely high end gear.

[DSMrehearsal]

I suggest you get the real thing. you use it like a hardware plugin. out of your D/A into the studer/ampex inputs then take the signal straight off the repro head. There will be a small delay between the two heads, but this is stated in the studer manules so you can add this to the delay that Nuendo will setup to compensate for the D/A > A/D conversion. I have been doing this with my studer 827 for a couple of weeks now. workks fine. . I would also go this route because you can fine tune the settings much more than a plug in - formulation, speed, bias, eq - is also WAY more fun.

DAniel

[Andrew Kinsey]

Originally Posted by MrVelvet

Thanks! Never tried it, but I always thought of the SPL Charisma as some kind of low-end box... Don't know why - but will check it out then!

Should specify my needs a bit - I don't need a massive amount of saturation in the sense of completely distorting a signal, I just don't want to have a subtle effect in the sense of "oh yeah, this sounds a tad more like tape when compared A/B". There should be some saturation available that brings the signal forward and giving it a nice edge - still nice sounding.

I don't want a box that has an overall very slight effect and sounds overdone all of a sudden. I thought that this would be the case with the Neve thing, just from the reviews here - but will check that out, too!

I already have the UA 2192 converter that gives me the general "analogue" feeling. Thought of the HEDD as well, which has a saturation effect available, but somehow I just didn't like the idea of having a digital algorithm doing this effect. At least not anymore, after upgrading from the plugin.

The SPL Charisma is a distortion unit and not quite the same effect as tape emulation.

The Cranesong Hedd on the other hand is deffinately worth considering for adding 'decent sounding' tape saturation, it can be also used to add distortion with the use of the Triode and Pentode controlls which take a bit of tweeking to get used to. Eitherway its very easy to use and it certainly does deliver good ressults.

[djui5]

Originally Posted by MrVelvet

Yeah, I might be a little bit too worried about the high end-thing... It's just that I'm kind of a purist and don't want anything to "downgrade" my signal path...

Thanks!

Don't think I'd call a proper tape machine a downgrade...

[NathanEldred]

Chandler TG-1 comp/limiter is the next best thing if you don't want a real (reel?) tape machine. And that's coming from someone (me) with a 2" 16 track and 1/4" 2 track, both Ampex @ 15ips. It doesn't get much more 70's than that. As a matter of fact, I still put it through the TG-1 subtly when mastering off the 2 track 1/4". I call it my RadioHead box because it brings the mids together with it's specific character so nicely that's unobtainable with anything else I've tried, technique-wise or gear-wise. But it's the sprinkles, on the icing, on the cake if you know what I mean; if everything else is really great, then it's going to add that last bit of special magic. But don't expect it (or any other piece of gear) to be a magic device. It works great as a tracking compressor or bus compressor too most of the time, especially the mastering version (which is what I have) with the half stepped potentiometers.

[Pepe Ortega]

Originally Posted by MrVelvet

I don't want a box that has an overall very slight effect and sounds overdone all of a sudden. I thought that this would be the case with the Neve thing, just from the reviews here - but will check that out, too!
.

If you turn saturation knob to max you´ll obtain a very "saturated" sound.. nothing ligth.
You must try one of this units. ask Mr Rupert for a demo and move the knobs ..

Good luck.

[AB3]

I have the Neve tape simulator and the Chandler Zener. I was going to sell the Neve because the Zener does some of the same. But on sampled piano (i.e. Akoustik) the Neve simulator was fantastic. However, the Zener has a lot of that tape type effect. So I would imagine the same would be the case with the TG-1.

I am curious Nathan - what settings do you use on your TG-1 for the 2 buss. I am assuming when you say "subtly" it means that your meters are barely moving, which on the Zener still imparts a nice subtle squish like tape.

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Chandler TG-1 comp/limiter is the next best thing if you don't want a real (reel?) tape machine. And that's coming from someone (me) with a 2" 16 track and 1/4" 2 track, both Ampex @ 15ips. It doesn't get much more 70's than that. As a matter of fact, I still put it through the TG-1 subtly when mastering off the 2 track 1/4". I call it my RadioHead box because it brings the mids together with it's specific character so nicely that's unobtainable with anything else I've tried, technique-wise or gear-wise. But it's the sprinkles, on the icing, on the cake if you know what I mean; if everything else is really great, then it's going to add that last bit of special magic. But don't expect it (or any other piece of gear) to be a magic device. It works great as a tracking compressor or bus compressor too most of the time, especially the mastering version (which is what I have) with the half stepped potentiometers.

[Kiwiburger]

Nuendo on PC? Check out Voxengo Tapebus (part of the AnalogFlux Suite) first. This is a plugin that has good saturation, as well as optional convolution of impulses taken from real high end tape machines.

Considering that no hardware box is going to emulate real tape anyway, this is about as good as you are going to get with anything except real tape.

[yareck]

Originally Posted by MrVelvet

I guess the Neve box would be too subtle and doesn't not really provide massive saturation - from what I read.

Yes indeed. I'm just testing it. Way too subtle for me. I'm considering to check TG1.

[bdmctear]

I just got these the other day, and am using right now on a project I tracked this week.

Here's the backstory: I have an Ampex MM1200 2 inch machine, though the project budget didn't allow for the time and tape expense. I am a true lover of tape, but decided to purchase both alternatives and to try them out (the Massey was only $69, so why not?).

Here's my initial impression. The Massey sounds great, and it is simple beyond simple with just a tape gain and a volume attenuation. It is quite capable of producing an exteme tae effect. Placing it on all the tracks in the mix, however, the coloration was a bit obvious (ie. an emulation and not the real thing). Still, though, it can be pretty mean sounding if you want it to be. And I think this is a great plug in to use on some of the tracks in a session, but not necessarily all the basic tracks at once. But I would say that THIS IS THE ONE if you are looking for the extreme tape saturation effect.

I have to say the whole set of Crane Song plugins (there are 5, I think, different colorations) is quite amazing. The Phoenix Plug ins take into consideration a much much wider selection of possiblities, everything from the most neutral, transparent, to the most colorful, 15ips sounding emulation. The variety is spread out over 5 or 6 different plugins, and I applaud them for doing this. Tape emulation is such a subtle process, and I could see flipping through all the selections in one plugin interface making your head spin.

When placed on all the tracks in the mix, it worked really well. It sounded very natural. The tracks managed to punch out from the mix really well. So much so, perhaps, that that might be the tell-tale difference between working from tape and working from PT under such conditions. I feel like tracks coming from a single reel of tape have a side by side quality to them where the same compression effects both simultaneously. Working with the Phoenix plug ins I couldn't resist the opportunity to use different colorations for different tracks, and so the whole thing still maintained a type of separation I am not used to with tape. But I really liked it.

I did put the Massey Tape Head on an entire mix and I didn't really like it. I have yet to do so with the Crane Song. My gut tells me the Crane Songs Plug ins will work well, but I have yet to see.

[drBill]

Good observations bdmctear! I agree - Massey on everything would be too much. For that type of application / technique, Phoenix is excellent.

[Madkour]

Originally Posted by MrVelvet

I'm looking for an outboard unit that gives me massive (when needed) hi-end tape-like saturation.

ATS-1 ANALOG TAPE SIMULATOR

Not released yet, but I think it will be a nice machine. It is designed by Greg Gualtieri (Pendulum Audio) and Dave Amels (Bomb Factory).
I think it will be available in May or June.

[Tone Obsessed]

LOVE my Rupert Neve Portico 5042 True Tape /Line Driver. Rather than hype it, go here & check it out:Portico 5042-H 2-CH "True Tape" Emulation / Line Driver

NOTE: The Crane Song Phoenix Plug-in ROCKS! Used with the 5042 and SPL's Transient Designer - WOW!!

Warmth, harmonics, & sounds soooo close to tape.

TJ

[brandnewmusic]

anyone tried an Aardvark Aard Scape Tape Saturation Emulator?

[theblotted]

anamod?

The Genetic Code For Tape Has Been Conquered!!! (AnaMod)

edit: MadKour's post.

[MrVelvet]

Originally Posted by djui5

Don't think I'd call a proper tape machine a downgrade...

Of course not I was referring to the Fatso...