Pacifica/Vintech/Great River/Buzz Shootout

[Slaytex]

John, I'm curious as why you never throw an API into these shootouts. I know they aren't the best for vocals, but it would be cool to hear it next to a 1073 type pre (which I consider completely opposite).
Thanks.

[Johnkenn]

I actually tried out the 7600 and liked it. Really nice pre. It was reminiscent of the Pacifica with more mids and less top...For what I'm doing - 90% vocals and the occasional acoustic overdub - I just haven't leaned in that sonic direction. I would rather have pres that were fantastic for vocals and iffy on instruments than the other way around. I'm sure many people use the API stuff for vocals with great success, I've just never gone down that path...

[skygod]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Here are the four with EQ and Verb. Regarding the eq - I only took out offending frequencies...nothing was added. BTW - the pres are in the same order in both sets of examples. ie - Raw1=Processed1, etc.

All of these files were recorded in the same room, same mic, same chain after the pre. Peluso 2247LE=Pre=Distressor (3:1 5,6,4,6)=Rosetta 200 (Firewire card)=Cubase 4=UAD-1 LA2A/Cambridge EQ/Plate 140 Verb

RAW
1. Small imbalanced between vocal and backing ac gtr
2. Bigger and smoother still unbalanced between vocal and backing ac gtr
3. WTF? It totally sucked dry
4. Vewy Vewy nice balance between vocal and backing ac gtr

PROCESSED
1. Small & imbalanced between vocal and backing ac gtr
2. Bigger and smooother yet still imbalanced between vocal and backing ac gtr
3. Got bigger and came forward in the mix. That's what Midrange does to instruments ... DUH!!! Better balance between vocal and backing ac gtr than NEVISH 1 and 2 predecessors. I liked it better processed than 1&2 RAW and PROCESSED
4. Bestest. Loved it. Best balance of vocal and instruments. Smoothy. Came all over my girlfriends new shoes. She's pissed now. Gave her $25 and sent her on her way to buy some new shoes. Gave the old pair to the cleaning lady.

GUESS? HELL NO. ITS A FACT JACK
1. VINTECH
2. GR (I don't like this product line at all for some reason). I have no clue what everybody is so enamored about. Does squat for me
3. DOWN UNDER? Good product for in your face vocals.
4. MY FAVORITE PREAMP OF ALL TIME -- A DESIGNS PACIFICA --- YESSIR IT'S GOTTA BE!!!!!

Here's the kicker. I didn't focus on the singer the entire four listens. Good talent. It was that obnoxious backing guitar imbalance between the vocal and the guitar that annoyed me the entire time. The preamps will bring this crappola out.

This is a good lesson to young engineers working with Classic Nevish Products ... it becomes a really accurate balancing exercise in mic selection and proximity placement to both the vocal and string instruments ratio (sonic depth of field) to find that balance. This is what I have always disliked about the 1073 1081 product line is this regard. I will never use them both at the same time on something like this. This is where you have to marry an API Instrument to offset a NEVE Vocal for example. They are never naturally balanced as is the Pacifica naturally. That's why I love that sumbich so much. It always rocks. PACIFICA ROCKS! PACIFICA ROCKS!

Here's a stunning example of API on acoustic instruments.

YouTube - Whitefall - Roberto Fazari - CCR®

Now this would have been a nice match for these four raw and processed samples had the instrument mic been fed into an API 3124 huh?

Fuggedaboudit!

Cheers

~skygod~

[gainstages]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

Well, when I hone in on the voice, I have a different pick than when I listen for how well the vocal gets along with the rest of the mix.

While any one of the clips is a fine effort in performance and mixing, I liked the Vintech when I listened to vocal only, but I give the nod to the Pacifica for how the vocal sits. And to me, this was like watching four of the best sprinters in the world run the 100 meter...with a few hundredths of a second separating the first and last. On any given day, a variation in atmospheric pressure, cosmic particles from the sun, or the mood of the listener might make a difference in the choice.

Best,

Mark

my thoughts exactly. I really liked the vocal on the vintech, but liked the way the more mellow sound of pacifica sat in the mix. both are very nice. I have recently picked up a vintech, might have to add a pacifica to the list of gear to lust after...

[Charlie_M]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Here it is...

1 - Vintech x73i
2 - Great River ME-1NV
3 - Buzz MA-2.2
4 - Pacifica

With the way people bash the Vintech here, I would have expected the others to blow it away, but I think I'm back to liking it and the Pacifica the most on my voice.

I'm getting here late but made up my mind before looking. FWIW I definitely liked 1 and 4 "best" on your voice in this song.

Among the group 1,2,4, I doubt I could say that either sounded objectively "better" than any other in that group. 1 and 4 suited your voice and this song best I felt, and # 2 had this smooth velvet quality but wasn't really fitting in here.

#3 somehow didn't sound quite as good as the others to me for whatever reason.

Thanks for posting this. I learned something today.

Charlie

[JOliver]

Im really surprised the buzz didnt get more love in this
I think its definitely the second best sounding to the pacifica.
The highs in the vintech are atrocious. All the sibilances sound terribly harsh to my ears. and the great river just sounds kinda muddy (comparitively) and lacks definition a little on top as well.

[ThomasWho]

I think this shootout is very telling. It tells me that the mic is more important than the preamp. The character of the mic speaks so much louder than the differences in the preamps.

Thomas

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Er..I'd like to thank Melodyne...

You used melodyne on a preamp comparison test???

narco

[PMoshay]

Email me when you finish your record, i wanna buy it....... i love your style, beautiful song.

[Johnkenn]

Originally Posted by narco

You used melodyne on a preamp comparison test???

narco

You can't tell? Well, there you go...

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

You can't tell? Well, there you go...

ha, that wasn't my point..

(although I did say "the mp3-ness in all them was annoying" in my earlier post which was probably melodyne on reconsideration, laptop speakers and all)

narco

[reflixtinian]

Nice Thread !

I liked the vintech , and the GR thumbsup ,

[tone delux]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Not the most extensive shootout, (one song) but here it goes. Here are the four pres without EQ or verb. I'll say which is which when the time is right...

sounds great. there are a few threads

here

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...ones-work.html

here

NEVE x DACS x API (Preamp shootout with files)

and here

Gonna be a COOL Saturday (U67)

That used some really elaborate gear. All clips are great but i like the sound you got.
you have a great sounding voice. let me know when the CD comes out.

[Johnkenn]

I've got a few threads out there myself...

By the way, I'm not sure where this "when the record is finished" thing came from, but I don't have anything in the works...these are all just demos. I appreciate the sentiments, though. Maybe I should put 12 of my favorites on a disc and sell it...

[Cosmonauta]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

I've got a few threads out there myself...

By the way, I'm not sure where this "when the record is finished" thing came from, but I don't have anything in the works...these are all just demos. I appreciate the sentiments, though. Maybe I should put 12 of my favorites on a disc and sell it...

I would buy. I know the competition to a spot in country music scene must be killer in US since it´s the most popular music there... but based in what I heard from country lately, you have the songwriting and the voice to shine. thumbsup
The rest would be business and luck.

My picks:
Pacifica
Vintech
Great River
Buzz

[Guitfiddle]

OK, John, have you tried a Peluso 22 251 on your voice? Just wondering how that would sound? If you get a chance try it, or if you have tried it, please fill us in on your thoughts.(maybe too bright) Thanks, great post. I have both microphones and I noticed more breathy air, rasp, and bite with the 251. The 2247le had a little more thickness and less sizzle, less bite. Not to put more on your plate, I know how you are, and I'm the same way about gear. While most people are splitting hairs in half, I'm splitting hairs into quarters.

[HNK]

Nice work Johnkenn! thumbsup
Sorry if this has already been answered, what pattern did you have the mic set at?

[Track 7]

Thank You for the post Johnken!

[Tha Wiizard]

Originally Posted by AllAboutTone

I found the Buzz to be a lot better than the Pacifica, it expands so much better, Pacifica is KILLER around 1k and up but the lower end turns me off. This was a shootout but the Buzz blew my mind, GR is transparent just like the compressors they make, i had enough of that with Avalon, the Vintech is to harsh on the high end, yuck.

I totally agree with you. Hmm, strange how everybody else picked other mic pres. The buzz audio was clearly the best out of all 4. Must be some kind of conspiracy or something.

[E.rOk.stA]

Wow, I'm really glad this post got resurrected. I have a Vintech and I was gonna sell it, not 'cause I didn't like it, I just wanted to get familiar with some other fine pre's, specifically the GR. I just copped a Summit TLA-100A and am strapped so I would have to sell something to get something. Hearing them all in a row a couple times really put things in perspective for me. Having used the vintech alot for busier rap mixes I can say it stacks VERY well. I think the harshness on the sibilants in the shootout was due to the input gain being too high. It's amazing how the character changes from 40 to 45. It starts to break up. Not good for vocals, great for guitars. I love the buzz it puts on vowels, especially drawn out ones. One thing is certain. I really plan on keepin' the V and gettin a Pacifica.

[Guitar Zero]

Before looking at the answers, I'm ranking the unprocessed vocals
2
4
3
1

[ronyjay]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Here are the four with EQ and Verb. Regarding the eq - I only took out offending frequencies...nothing was added. BTW - the pres are in the same order in both sets of examples. ie - Raw1=Processed1, etc.

All of these files were recorded in the same room, same mic, same chain after the pre. Peluso 2247LE=Pre=Distressor (3:1 5,6,4,6)=Rosetta 200 (Firewire card)=Cubase 4=UAD-1 LA2A/Cambridge EQ/Plate 140 Verb

Hi John, I love the song very nice!!!, listen I happen to have almost the same chain you used, Peluso, distressor, rosetta200, cubase, uad plugins, is there any way you have the presets you used for the plugins? Thanks, I appreciate it, Un abrazo!

rony jay

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by JOliver

Im really surprised the buzz didnt get more love in this
I think its definitely the second best sounding to the pacifica.

With more research I think the Buzz and the Pacifica are equal, I like the low end better on the buzz, but they are two different flavors and 2 killer pres.

[abhibad]

For me,
1 was the best if you want vocals to have some presence and cut through the mix, and 4 was the best if you want vocals to blend in nicely in the mix.

[hpp99]

I also want to ask...

WHERE CAN I BUY THIS SONG?

If it's not commercially available, then is there another way? (I send you some money on Paypal, you send me an email with the song file or so?)

[insomnio]

Originally Posted by hpp99

I also want to ask...

WHERE CAN I BUY THIS SONG?

If it's not commercially available, then is there another way? (I send you some money on Paypal, you send me an email with the song file or so?)

Yep, John is very talented. I also like his songs very much.

[patfont]

Another late response here, I really like the smoothness of the Great River it is very natural and easy on the ears, and it is very controlled. To me the Vintech and Pacifica do not sound as real or natural the buzz is actually sounding better to me. Just my 2 cents. And oh...thanks so much for doing this, now I am pretty sure when I buy a Mic Pre it will be the GR.

[Bradahman]

I like 4, 1, 2 then 3...

2 and 3 just sounded all right. 1 & 4 are pretty nice. thumbsup

[Johnkenn]

Originally Posted by hpp99

I also want to ask...

WHERE CAN I BUY THIS SONG?

If it's not commercially available, then is there another way? (I send you some money on Paypal, you send me an email with the song file or so?)

Thanks. guys! Honestly, I had forgotten about this song - but it is good...Gonna start pitching this one around again...

BTW - I put this up for sale or stream on my reverb nation page. Here's the link: John Kennedy - ReverbNation

[HK_Tain]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Thanks. guys! Honestly, I had forgotten about this song - but it is good...Gonna start pitching this one around again...

BTW - I put this up for sale or stream on my reverb nation page. Here's the link: John Kennedy - ReverbNation

Dude, I have to tell you, I absolutely LOVE your stuff -- but I don't think you actually said the TITLE of this song...??