Pacifica/Vintech/Great River/Buzz Shootout

[RKrizman]

I'm really surprised the Great River isn't getting more love here. The smoothnes and lack of distortion really drew me into the performance. What are you guys monitoring on? (and no, I'm not a dealer and have no vested interest)

Excellent music , singing and production, btw.

-R

[ericwall]

[quote=Johnkenn;1178575]Seems to be a bunch of varying opinions. Here it is...

1 - Vintech x73i
2 - Great River ME-1NV
3 - Buzz MA-2.2
4 - Pacifica

Yey!! My beard stays on then .

Very glad to hear that.

Pacifica, come to Papa!

(Might just add a Vintech to that order. It was great on your voice. Thank's for sharing)

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

I'm really surprised the Great River isn't getting more love here. The smoothnes and lack of distortion really drew me into the performance. What are you guys monitoring on? (and no, I'm not a dealer and have no vested interest)

Excellent music , singing and production, btw.

-R

When I owned the Great River preamp, I more often than not had trouble getting it to sit in the mix as easily as the Pacifica when using it to track vocals. It's a nice preamp, but I never liked it for vox. I sold mine.

Brad

[gracejames]

Before i saw the results, i picked

1
3
2
4

Your thread is pointing me towards Peluso actually.
I have the vintech.
John, have you tried a UA6176?
If you can get your hands on that, you may
want to add that on your list to compare.

[GravityRobert]

I have no experience with any of those pre's so I can't give my take on that but is there a little ground noise hearable on the first pre? Might be snare buzz coming in from the mix. I hear this on every track but on this one the loudest, I believe.

Anyway in order of likeableness:

4 (little warmer I believe, lots of air as well)
2 (out of the four this one gave a pleasant 'clear' sound)
3 (okay)
1 (too thin)

Could you possibly post the seperate vocal tracks?

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

When I owned the Great River preamp, I more often than not had trouble getting it to sit in the mix as easily as the Pacifica when using it to track vocals. It's a nice preamp, but I never liked it for vox. I sold mine.

Brad

What about for micing the Vox SuperContinental?

Actually, I rarely use my GR for vocals, usually opting for a DRS-2 or Averil 312, but having heard these files I think I'm going to give it more of a shot.

-R

[shanabit]

My pref would be:

1 Vintech
4 Pacifica
2 Great river
3 Buzz

I really LOVE that mic

[Johnkenn]

Originally Posted by roger

wo - i was wrong about the vintech.....i liked number 1 the least...put me on edge! but i am stoked with the buzz and the pacifica - both joining my rack this year.....both very nice to my ears.
thanks for putting in the time to do this for us man! really!
ps - richard marx wants his song back! .....whoa - just jokes!

It's interesting to me that half of the people loved number 1 (Vintech) and the other half hated it. I really like it. I've heard brite = 737, Martech, etc...and the x73i is not harsh. I just question whether or not people are listening through monitors when making these harsh judgements...

[AllAboutTone]

I found the Buzz to be a lot better than the Pacifica, it expands so much better, Pacifica is KILLER around 1k and up but the lower end turns me off. This was a shootout but the Buzz blew my mind, GR is transparent just like the compressors they make, i had enough of that with Avalon, the Vintech is to harsh on the high end, yuck.

[Johnkenn]

Originally Posted by gracejames

Before i saw the results, i picked

1
3
2
4

Your thread is pointing me towards Peluso actually.
I have the vintech.
John, have you tried a UA6176?
If you can get your hands on that, you may
want to add that on your list to compare.

Actually, I have tried the 6176...really didn't like it. The pre was ok, but it tended to distort easily on my voice. Also, I really disliked the 1176 on vocals. It either wasn't compressing enough (1:1) or compressing too much (4:1)...Really came away not liking it.

[Johnkenn]

Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston

You know, it's funny.

All I hear when I listen to these clips (raw only) is how insignificant the gear is when you have wonderful talent in front of the mic.

That's all I have to offer.

Thanks, Lynn - I actually met you about a month ago when I came by your house and bought your Pre cd...It's been very helpful. BTW - On your board a while back, you posted a vocal you did with the Buzz and I think it was Jonelle Mosser - it was a female jazz performance. I remember being blown away by it. Did you not have any issues with the midrange with the Buzz? I know you say you don't like to eq - you like to get it right with the mic and the pre, so was there no eq on that?

[bit mangler]

I picked 1 & 4 as the best followed by 2,3.I listened 1&4 repeatedly but really couldnt pick the best(they sounded different though).
I dont have great ears like you guys but the differences were perceptible.
Thanks for taking time to do this

[espasonico]

I prefer the Pacifica but as a mixer I wouldn´t mind to recieve any of the other 3 tracks.

My least favourite is 3 and with 1 I would have to do some work with the "sss" but I like the air on that one. 2 sounds great too.

Anyway, nice voice, good song, etc. Keep on.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by zaza

I found the Buzz to be a lot better than the Pacifica, it expands so much better, Pacifica is KILLER around 1k and up but the lower end turns me off. This was a shootout but the Buzz blew my mind, GR is transparent just like the compressors they make, i had enough of that with Avalon, the Vintech is to harsh on the high end, yuck.

GR makes a compressor? News to me. And the Vintech is a little forward in the high mids, not my pick for a song like this but by no means does it sound bad enough to warrant a yuck IMHO.... but YMMV.....

[Confusionator]

I know I'm late to the party, but unprocessed I also liked:

1
4
2 or 3 (doesn't matter which did better because they both blew--for ME).

I'm posting just because I'm interested that so many of us came to the same conclusions.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

GR makes a compressor? News to me. And the Vintech is a little forward in the high mids, not my pick for a song like this but by no means does it sound bad enough to warrant a yuck IMHO.... but YMMV.....

LMAO, sorry about that, for some reason i get GR and cranesong mixed up, do not ask why...that was stupid and a great laugh as well. the cranes are transparent is what i meant.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Thanks, Lynn - I actually met you about a month ago when I came by your house and bought your Pre cd...It's been very helpful. BTW - On your board a while back, you posted a vocal you did with the Buzz and I think it was Jonelle Mosser - it was a female jazz performance. I remember being blown away by it. Did you not have any issues with the midrange with the Buzz? I know you say you don't like to eq - you like to get it right with the mic and the pre, so was there no eq on that?

You also wrote previously in this thread:

The buzz audio seemed to be heavier in the mids and thicker on the bottom. Very, very detailed. Not the greatest for my voice, but I could imagine this on a jazzy male or female could be awesome - or acoustic tracks.

Most everything I try against the Buzz has more midrange punch than it does. The Chandler TG, GML, GR, TNT, Vipre, you name it. The definition of the Buzz in the midrange is smoooooth. It won't jump out at you or bite you at all. Most comparison to most solid state preamps, you'd think it wasn't solid state. JB, also from Nashville, said about it "It's got all that wonderful stuff like the GML but it's not as harsh." (Paraphrasing there. That was 1993.)

The low end on the Buzz is what you find in any other solid state preamp I've ever heard. That's what sold that singer on the Buzz. A little midrange push is easy to manage with EQ, but the warmth, that warm sweet hug in the body of the voice, that's what the Buzz absolutely excels at. It's very hard to find and impossible to fake with EQ. I've tried.

The vocalist was not Jonelle. Last time I recorded her I used a 67 and the Manley
SLAM. It's on the ADCD project. Cut straight to 2".

The one you're remembering is this one. The vocal mic is my ELUX 251 going straight to a Buzz MA2 then a CL-1B to RADAR. Nothing else. In the mix, the only processing on the voice was a de-esser (Waves), nothing else. The whole mix has about 4dB of shelving boost at 18K through a Great River EQ-2NV. That's all that was done to the vocal sound you hear, other than fader rides. Here's the clip you were talking about.

http://www.3daudioinc.com/music/kt-track1.mp3

Lots more info (9 pages) about these sessions and album, including pictures and solo sound clips, are here:

http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthread.php?t=8125

Since you brought it up. I'm glad you liked it.

[AllAboutTone]

Does Buzz only come in luchbox? or do they have a rackmount..
thanks

[H-Rezz]

My choice is the song and vocal , Johns got a fantastic voice and i'm sure he would record great on most decent equipment ! I agree with the choices he made , i also picked 1 and 4 but didn't post .

Good luck with the song

[ISedlacek]

Pacifica just arrived to me for a test. Should you be interested, you can listen to Pacifica compared to Pendulum and DAV preamps on various acoustic instruments HERE

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by zaza

Does Buzz only come in luchbox? or do they have a rackmount..
thanks

The Buzz rackmount preamp is called the MA2.2. The MA2.2TX is the same thing with Sowters outfitted on the output (which gives a bit more coloration in the low mids).

The 500 series preamp module is called the Elixir. It comes standard with a Lundahl on the output (not optional to remove).

They are about 90% similar, I wouldn't say either one is 'better' just a little different.

[Rogervandeberg]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Not too get off topic, but how many of you Pacifica users prefer the sound on vocals with the pad engaged? I think I like the sound with the pad out on vocals although this can be a bit of a problem with mics with a high output.

Brad

Most of the times i like it pad in....i track rock vocals mostly though

[Acko]

2,3 & 4 all sound pretty good, my favourites were buzz(nice and open, suited the track the best I think, and great river (fat and warm) the vintech sounded a bid wierd, I'd have issues with that one.

[bassfuzz]

I think that having the most forward, high end boosted sample first is slightly misleading, as the following samples in comparison will then seem much more "lifeless" and "dull"(much like having the loudest sample first). I had to wait a bit and come back and listen to the other samples first to get what I felt was a more even comparison for me, whatever that is worth.
The Vintech after a few listens started to give me a little fatigue on my little Cambridge speakers here at work, and had the most "ram it down your listeners throat" quality that for your style I think is just too much. I would have a hard time with extended listening to a whole album (at least on these crappy speakers). The pacifica had some nice air without that harshness and sibilance from the Vintech, the GR- nice and smooth, the buzz didn't happen to work for me in this example, but hey wouldn't kick it out of bed. Couldn't get over the Vintech though in this particlar case (I'm sure MP3 doesn't help).

[amishsixstringe]

I just listened to these for the first time...I liked the vintech then the pacifica, then the buzz, then the great river. THe great river had a really weird bottom end thing to it that I didn't really dig. I do think it's odd that a TON of people talk shit on vintech on this board, and if you look back before anyone knew the answers, almost all of them picked the vintech as their favorite...interesting.


Neil

[perky b]

I have the GR and the Buzz- as well as many other pres- and both are to my ears very natural-sounding and musical- without adding either any harshness or emphasis on any specific frequency.

Sometimes the GR sounds far better than great tube stuff like the Fearn or Pendulum Q2-depending upon the voice, the room, the mic- etc---the Buzz is amazing on acoustic instruments if they sound good and are being played well.....as is the GR....and both can be used on electric guitars, vocals, horns, whatever-

I love what Lynn Fuston said- if the player and the song are good- these are tools that have a good shot at capturing what they have played....both are awesome- sometimes they work better on a specific track than others. My 2 cents.

[RKrizman]

[QUOTE=amishsixstringe;1180781I do think it's odd that a TON of people talk shit on vintech on this board, and if you look back before anyone knew the answers, almost all of them picked the vintech as their favorite...interesting.
Neil[/QUOTE]

Well, if you're going with what the majority picked you have to ask yourself if this says more about the preamps or the people in the forum.

-R

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston

So, now that the votes are in, I have to ask (in true GS fashion):

Which IS the best preamp of these auditioned here?

Let the fights begin!

Hi Lynn. I think I heard your preamp shootout cd 3 times now (in my studio with some great monitoring and acoustics). Thanks for that.It was an experience to me. It showed me that, IMHO, preamps are being a bit overrated. Its pretty hard to tell the difference between an $800 to a $5000 preamp sometimes...

I think this shootout only prooved the same: Great acoustics, instruments well tuned and played, song well composed (like it or not) great engineering and what a great mic too. To tell the truth i think the preamp, in this case, is the least important part of the chain!!!

Damn, I love to buy preamps....

The best preamp for me was n1 too. the vintech, wich I never considered too much...But this doesnt mean that much, only that it suited this guys vocals with that mic and song etc....

[Tim Farrant]

I am at home right now, and don't have a sufficiently good system connected to my PC to listen to the clips, but, isn't surprising how different all the opinions are. In fact, I would go so far as to say it's pretty well inconclusive!

Each to their own!

Cheers
Tim.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by zaza

4 Pacifica mid scoop
3 Vintech has a little neve sound going on
2 Great River little transparent
1 Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz too brittle.... <<< If that is Buzz, lol i never have no desire for one.

thats was finally a good sounding shootout, altho they are much much different when they are in front of your monitors vs the files on here..


damn he forgot the API and Daking....

Flip Flop

Hey Zaza

You gonna buy the Buzz now and take back your words about brittle. Good pick on the Pacifica but.

GJ
Newcastle/OZ