Pacifica/Vintech/Great River/Buzz Shootout

[funka]

All I hear when I listen to these clips (raw only) is how insignificant the gear is when you have wonderful talent in front of the mic.

Yes, but I think the diffs would have been much more hearable in a mic shootout. The more I record, the more I found the mics to be much more criticals than the pres. Even if, of course, a good pre can help.
Waiting for the results...

[axisdreamer]

I like 1 and 4 the best. I never got to work with any of these pre's myself but from what I've been reading about the Pacifica on GS ,I'm thinking it's 1 because of the extanded high end everyone talks about. 4 sounds really warm,maybe the vintech?

1
4
2
3

Stace

[MadGuitrst]

Okay, I posted here then deleted after I listened in a better environment and something suddenly hit me: One of them sounds like something I own.

My opinions on what I like with the raw files (the only ones I've listened to) haven't changed, just my guesses.

My favs vary depending on whether the vocal was softer or louder.

Soft:
2 - round and full
4 - phatter then 2
3 - a little bit pinched
1 - hard

Louder:
3 - very even, no siblilence at all
2 - round and full, a little exitedness (transformer?)
4 - phatter then 2, a little more exitedness than 2 (transformer?)
1 - hard, a bit harsh

Now my guesses:
1 - Vintech
2 - GR
3 - Buzz
4 - Pacifica

What hit me is that at first I though #1 was the Buzz, since it is kinda lean and hard (and a preamp I have never used). Then I moved from my laptop to me studio and suddenly it hit me....that sounds like the Chameleon Labs. Hard and a bit harsh on vocals without using any EQ (but good for ribbons).

Actually, 2 and 4 sound the most like and I wouldn't be surprised if they were reversed, but I would be very surprised if one of them were the Buzz. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if I got them all wrong either .

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by funka

Yes, but I think the diffs would have been much more hearable in a mic shootout. The more I record, the more I found the mics to be much more criticals than the pres. Even if, of course, a good pre can help.

And also, as you can see in this example, the preamps preferences are quite evenly spread among those who listened (what is best for one is worse for the other). So a normal listener would not care at all ... Once in a decent level, the gear probably does not matter that much ... So any of these preamps would do ...

[rasjan]

#1 is my favorite, closely followed by #4

My guess:

1: Vintech
2: Buzz
3: Great River
4: Pacifica

great thread!

[mltamisin]

I only listened to the raw tracks and like 2 the best. I'm on crap computer speakers though.

[Tommy-boy]

Originally Posted by zaza

4 Pacifica mid scoop
3 Vintech has a little neve sound going on
2 Great River little transparent
1 Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz too brittle.... <<< If that is Buzz, lol i never have no desire for one.

thats was finally a good sounding shootout, altho they are much much different when they are in front of your monitors vs the files on here..


damn he forgot the API and Daking....

Flip Flop

These are my guesses as well.

[roger]

1 is buzz
2 is pacifica
3 GR
4 Vintech
i agree with the bloke above....to my lil ears 1 sounds a bit thin - don't like it at all...i like the warm, fat 4!
1 is def buzz or pac
4 is def GR or Vintech...now there's a cop out!

[Fuel]

#1
#4
#2
#3

Man we need the results!! PLEASE!!!!

[MadGuitrst]

BTW, that is a great song, great all around performances and recording!!!
It sounds like a hit to me.......

[joho]

Just ordered my Pacifica several hours ago.

Now I'm really curious - is it number 4?

I like number 1 for being really modern and clear, fat, strong everything. 4 is a close second, a bit mellower, but nice.

[Johnkenn]

Seems to be a bunch of varying opinions. Here it is...

1 - Vintech x73i
2 - Great River ME-1NV
3 - Buzz MA-2.2
4 - Pacifica

Honestly, there's not one of these I wouldn't love to have. I really wish I could have gotten a hold of a Chandler TG Channel/LTD-1...if I do, I might add it. With the way people bash the Vintech here, I would have expected the others to blow it away, but I think I'm back to liking it and the Pacifica the most on my voice. I like the air - and I don't think it's that harsh. It seems to have less of that bigger than life iron and more standing right in front of you presense. The Pacifica seems to make everything bigger. Killer extended range that stays sonically the same regardless of a whisper or a scream. Seems like I could have really laid into this one and been safe all the way through. I might have to get one of these. The buzz audio seemed to be heavier in the mids and thicker on the bottom. Very, very detailed. Not the greatest for my voice, but I could imagine this on a jazzy male or female could be awesome - or acoustic tracks. The Great River was consistent and seemed to be round on the top. It's a great pre - one I wouldn't have any qualms with keeping. (Actually, I bought one on ebay and that's what started all of this.) This has really made me realize that none of these are better than the other - they are just different. I did REALLY like the Pacifica, but I think I'm definitely keeping the Vintech.
OK manufacturers - Wade, Tim, Dan, A-designs dude, Dallas...if you would like to contribute to my addiction, I take donations...

[zeljkom]

# 1 (nice, pleasant, air...)
# 4 (very much like the first one but not so pleasant-bright in middle section)
# 2 (no go... for me)
# 3 (no go... for me)

Nice song man.

Very nice recording.

Tell us!!!

[blueman]

PACIFICA:

¡¡Wellcome to my wish list!!!

[ISedlacek]

Pacifica: tomorrow it will arrive to my studio for trying and I will compare it directly against Pendulum MDP-1 and DAV BG-2 on a bunch o various acoustic intruments ... Quite curious

[FossilTooth]

At first I liked 1 quite a bit more than 4, but after a while, 1 ended up sounding a little 'hard' to me.
It's tough when the most present piece of gear is first, as it really colors your opinions.

Of course I know what all the pres are now, but I had read this thread in order, so I was in the same boat as anyone else. Having never used the Pacifica or Buzz, I opted out of guessing which was which.


#1 (Vintech) Had the most personality, but maybe just a little too much. Very articulate, bold and occasionally hard. Maybe too modern and almost (gasp) Rode-y.

#4 (Pacifica) seems to have a better balance than the Vintech, but it wasn't quite as powerful and in your face or present. It didn't have a personality that can get in the way of itself like the Vintech. My guess is that it would be better for a wider variety of signal sources. Very well balanced. If I was going to buy one of the four it might be this one.

#3 (buzz) A lot of people complained about the midrange on this one. I thought that was the most interesting part about it..... unconventional. Could be cool on certain things. Not for everyone.

#2 (Great River) isn't a bad pre at all, but it sounded weak and cloudy on this particular voice. Somehow chesty and thin at the same time! I've picked it over other pres on other instruments and voices, but it's dead last for me on this test.

I think everyone can agree that the Vintech was the boldest and most present of the bunch.... maybe too much so for some. It's funny to know that I was in a vocal session last week, where we auditioned the Vintech x73, but didn't use it because it sounded too murky on that particular voice with that mic, on that song!

It just goes to prove that the sound source and the context are the most important things, and will often surprise you.

[MadGuitrst]

I got it right............like always

[RecTeach]

I just looked at the original post so I'm not sure if the results have been posted. Out of the 4 I only own the GR so I'll base most of this off of what I like best...

Overall

File 1: This was the least of my fav's... a little weak in the imaging; and a tad to syllabint

File 2: Really liked this one, nice and dark

File 3: Really liked this one as well, it has the most "punch" (listen to the kick)

File 4: has the most "air"


Depending on how hard the GR was driven I would say that more gain and less ouput could be File 2 or less gain and more output could be File 4

[Johnkenn]

My x73i has the new custom wound transformer that is supposed to be like the Marinairs, so I don't know if that explains why some people have found the Vintechs to be "veiled"...Maybe they were the ones with the St. Ives transformers...

Does the Vintech X73i really have St Ives transformers?

[Johnkenn]

BTW - the only thing that changes from song to song is the vocal. There is absolutely no difference in the tracks from song to song. So the kick is the same in every version.

[KingUgly]

Was the Great River level matched to the others? It seemed much louder.

[Lynn Fuston]

So, now that the votes are in, I have to ask (in true GS fashion):

Which IS the best preamp of these auditioned here?

Let the fights begin!

[Koed]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

I did REALLY like the Pacifica, but I think I'm definitely keeping the Vintech.

Glad I at least picked the pacifica.
I'm surprised by the Vintech :) and agree that the Vintech and Pacifica gave your voice the most power.
I tried listening with my eyes closed and picked 1 & 4 to be the ones that made me listen to the lyrics and make your voice come alive.
It's not very scientific but it works for me, if I close my eyes and I can 'see' the vocal telling me a story and keeping my attention then it's right.
I got that with the Vintech and Pacifica, but the airy bit on the Vintech put me off..it broke the magic in places.
Still I think all four preamps sound great, but I'd probably choose the Pacifica if I had to do a recording with you :)

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

My x73i has the new custom wound transformer that is supposed to be like the Marinairs, so I don't know if that explains why some people have found the Vintechs to be "veiled"...Maybe they were the ones with the St. Ives transformers...

The new custom transformers are NOT extremely far off from the sound of the units from a couple of years ago that used the St. Ives. We're talking about 1-2% difference (they spec the same as the original 1073 transformers in the sub lows...there's already been a few threads on GS about this topic). I think the 'veiled' comment was maybe people talking about the Vintech Dual 72 which is a lot thicker/darker/more mellow than the other 5 preamp models in the rest of the Vintech line (which all sound the same as each other and what you have). But the Dual 72 has it's own place and doesn't claim to sound anything like a 1073/1290 preamp.

[Jaguar Dreams]

4
1
2
3

I really like what the Pacifica did for your voice. The Vintech was a close second.

-Jaguar

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I think the 'veiled' comment was maybe people talking about the Vintech Dual 72 which is a lot thicker/darker/more mellow than the other 5 preamp models in the rest of the Vintech line (which all sound the same as each other and what you have). But the Dual 72 has it's own place and doesn't claim to sound anything like a 1073/1290 preamp.

I never knew that. All I know is that I was surprised how much I liked the 4x73 (I know that's not the name--the 4 channel x73) especially considering how much I dislike the Vintech 72.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Not the most extensive shootout, (one song) but here it goes. Here are the four pres without EQ or verb. I'll say which is which when the time is right...

I like #2. GR?

-R

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Here are the four with EQ and Verb. Regarding the eq - I only took out offending frequencies...nothing was added. BTW - the pres are in the same order in both sets of examples. ie - Raw1=Processed1, etc.

All of these files were recorded in the same room, same mic, same chain after the pre. Peluso 2247LE=Pre=Distressor (3:1 5,6,4,6)=Rosetta 200 (Firewire card)=Cubase 4=UAD-1 LA2A/Cambridge EQ/Plate 140 Verb

Still liking #2. The sssss's sound right.

-R

[Brad McGowan]

Not too get off topic, but how many of you Pacifica users prefer the sound on vocals with the pad engaged? I think I like the sound with the pad out on vocals although this can be a bit of a problem with mics with a high output.

Brad

[roger]

wo - i was wrong about the vintech.....i liked number 1 the least...put me on edge! but i am stoked with the buzz and the pacifica - both joining my rack this year.....both very nice to my ears.
thanks for putting in the time to do this for us man! really!
ps - richard marx wants his song back! .....whoa - just jokes!