SOFFIT MOUNTING of ATC 50ASL's do or don't?

DSMrehearsal · 6th March 2007, 05:33 AM

Here's another one to anoy all you lovely people who have answerd the question a million times over but.........

My mix room at home is having an overhaul. it is a victorian house with chimney places (sealed up with brick) hence I have 2 alcoves . I have bass issues in the room as well as imaging issues. a new free standing frame lined with rockwool, air gap, battons, strips of sheetblock (generic not branded

) then material over top have greatly helped with 90% of probblems. I'm thinking that putting the speakers onto Iso frames of my own design and construction and building mass around the speakers - thick neoprene on all top and side surfaces then a "jacket" of multi sandwiched plasterboard and 5KG sheetblock sitting on top going from (almost) cealing to base boards. the inner side of the top layer of the jacket would be sealed to the chimmny breast and the outer edge would but up to the non resonant new walls either side.

MY reasons for doing this are larger front baffle = better imaging (in personal experiance)

usefull extra 6db weight in low end (Can't really afford £5000 for subs at the mo) = the atcs are smooth but I find clients always prefer to listen with a low shelf on the master buss hust to juice it up a bit.

Assthetics - will look good = but this really is a the botom of the list for the reason that generally I'm not one to care for looks as long as the place is functional and sounds good. but once again it's the client thing = they do pay the bills after all

its 5 am so please excuse spellings or bad explanation.

suppose I'm asking if it's a good idea to use the receses(alcoves) already there to load with speakers

Cheers

DAniel

thethrillfactor · 6th March 2007, 09:05 AM

Just an opinion...ATC SCM50's are a little small for soffit mounting. They are more of a smaller midfield than a farfield.

If you need more weight buy bigger monitors.

Fletcher · 6th March 2007, 03:10 PM

When you soffit mount ANY speaker you're now dealing with how the speaker couples to the wall [while being 100% physically detatched from the wall]. Bass frequencies like to couple with mass... so, as the low frequency information from your speakers come out of the speaker, instead of that low frequency information coming out forward as well as rolling around the side of the speaker cabinet, if you soffit mount the speakers the low frequency information will now couple with the walls [and eventually ceiling and floor].

In short, when you soffit mount ANY speaker the room becomes an active participant in the sound of that speaker [more so than when you have them "free standing"]... in other words, if you're going to soffit mount your speakers [if you're looking for any degree of "accuracy"] you'll have to have your room designed by someone who knows what they're doing.

If you just want the shit to look good [from what I can tell, this is also known as the John Storyk school of acoustic design] then yeah, just stick 'um in the wall and be done with it.

DSMrehearsal · 7th March 2007, 05:14 PM

This isn't about looking good. It's about making the most of the availible space and improving dispersion carachteristics. of the high end.

And a little note for thrill factor.........If you read the post you will see that I stated that there is no availible money for new speakers/subs/qualified accoustician - I need to make the most of what I have for at least 14 months.I have just turned 24 and stopped working full time, and am just about to start on Intensive courses in Physics - with a veiw to study enviromental accoustics afterwards. My house (FULLY PAID I might add) is now the studio And I live in central London - the only room big enough for mixing is 15' x10' - tiny compared to what I'm used to, but will have to work

I made this post asking for help , not redirection to information I have already obtained

I will just have to go ahead with installing/measuring myself and find something that works.

DAniel

Fletcher · 7th March 2007, 05:29 PM

If there is no money for an acoustician then DO NOT try to build a front wall on your own and expect it to work worth a damn. I'm not sure what you mean by "increasing the high end dispersion" but a front wall won't do that. Front walls are primarily for bass efficiency. Building your own front wall without the proper training will be about as much fun and about as beneficial as trying to give yourself a vasectomy. You might get it done right, you might not... it ain't critical surgery but its surgery none the less... there are some things best left to professionals... in my experience, acoustics and surgery are two of those things.

I would suggest you mount them on stands behind your work area and maybe throw some diffusors on the current front wall until you can afford to do it properly.

Best of luck with all you do.

Peace.

u b k · 8th March 2007, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSMrehearsal

And a little note for thrill factor.........If you read the post you will see that I stated that there is no availible money for new speakers/subs/qualified accoustician...

fwiw, there is no such statement in your original post. 5am posting can be like that

.

gregoire
del
ubk
.

DSMrehearsal · 8th March 2007, 10:05 AM

late night = no sleep for a week = me Being a grumpy As*hole

Appoligies all round - I gave Up drining a few weeks ago , And have been really snappy with people since - seems to be tailing off , but still getting a little jumpy

sorry to be a co*k all who replied.

DAniel

danasti · 8th March 2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSMrehearsal

there is no availible money for new speakers/subs/qualified accoustician

Don't go through all the trouble and time is my opinion on your situation. It rarely works any better for speakers of that size unless the wall and all it's support structure was designed around them. The chance of it sounding terrible and causing some ringing and vibrational problems is extremely high unless you get someone with experience to work on the room.

Speakers and rooms are so much easier to control by placing them on stands. And without money to do it properly I would advise you against this.

Anyway, Good Luck and All the best!
D

DSMrehearsal · 9th March 2007, 01:17 PM

RIGht, Plan is now to just line the alcoves as basstraps, place speakers infront of them and just put a !5 inch AtC SUB on my crdit card and just lump the fact I'm paying interest.

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6th March 2007, 05:33 AM	#1
DSMrehearsal Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 308	SOFFIT MOUNTING of ATC 50ASL's do or don't? Here's another one to anoy all you lovely people who have answerd the question a million times over but......... My mix room at home is having an overhaul. it is a victorian house with chimney places (sealed up with brick) hence I have 2 alcoves . I have bass issues in the room as well as imaging issues. a new free standing frame lined with rockwool, air gap, battons, strips of sheetblock (generic not branded ) then material over top have greatly helped with 90% of probblems. I'm thinking that putting the speakers onto Iso frames of my own design and construction and building mass around the speakers - thick neoprene on all top and side surfaces then a "jacket" of multi sandwiched plasterboard and 5KG sheetblock sitting on top going from (almost) cealing to base boards. the inner side of the top layer of the jacket would be sealed to the chimmny breast and the outer edge would but up to the non resonant new walls either side. MY reasons for doing this are larger front baffle = better imaging (in personal experiance) usefull extra 6db weight in low end (Can't really afford £5000 for subs at the mo) = the atcs are smooth but I find clients always prefer to listen with a low shelf on the master buss hust to juice it up a bit. Assthetics - will look good = but this really is a the botom of the list for the reason that generally I'm not one to care for looks as long as the place is functional and sounds good. but once again it's the client thing = they do pay the bills after all its 5 am so please excuse spellings or bad explanation. suppose I'm asking if it's a good idea to use the receses(alcoves) already there to load with speakers Cheers DAniel

6th March 2007, 03:10 PM	#3
Fletcher member no 666 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Foxboro, MA USA Posts: 5,783	When you soffit mount ANY speaker you're now dealing with how the speaker couples to the wall [while being 100% physically detatched from the wall]. Bass frequencies like to couple with mass... so, as the low frequency information from your speakers come out of the speaker, instead of that low frequency information coming out forward as well as rolling around the side of the speaker cabinet, if you soffit mount the speakers the low frequency information will now couple with the walls [and eventually ceiling and floor]. In short, when you soffit mount ANY speaker the room becomes an active participant in the sound of that speaker [more so than when you have them "free standing"]... in other words, if you're going to soffit mount your speakers [if you're looking for any degree of "accuracy"] you'll have to have your room designed by someone who knows what they're doing. If you just want the shit to look good [from what I can tell, this is also known as the John Storyk school of acoustic design] then yeah, just stick 'um in the wall and be done with it. __________________ Fletcher If you have a question please email me at Fletcher@mercenary.com instead of using the PM system... I very rarely check that system and it could take a while to get a response. I can also be found at either address below: R/E/P the Recording Engineer and Producer forums Mercenary Audio mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

7th March 2007, 05:29 PM	#5
Fletcher member no 666 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Foxboro, MA USA Posts: 5,783	If there is no money for an acoustician then DO NOT try to build a front wall on your own and expect it to work worth a damn. I'm not sure what you mean by "increasing the high end dispersion" but a front wall won't do that. Front walls are primarily for bass efficiency. Building your own front wall without the proper training will be about as much fun and about as beneficial as trying to give yourself a vasectomy. You might get it done right, you might not... it ain't critical surgery but its surgery none the less... there are some things best left to professionals... in my experience, acoustics and surgery are two of those things. I would suggest you mount them on stands behind your work area and maybe throw some diffusors on the current front wall until you can afford to do it properly. Best of luck with all you do. Peace. __________________ Fletcher If you have a question please email me at Fletcher@mercenary.com instead of using the PM system... I very rarely check that system and it could take a while to get a response. I can also be found at either address below: R/E/P the Recording Engineer and Producer forums Mercenary Audio mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

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6th March 2007, 09:05 AM	#2
thethrillfactor Gear Guru Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 11,229	Just an opinion...ATC SCM50's are a little small for soffit mounting. They are more of a smaller midfield than a farfield. If you need more weight buy bigger monitors.

7th March 2007, 05:14 PM	#4
DSMrehearsal Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 308	This isn't about looking good. It's about making the most of the availible space and improving dispersion carachteristics. of the high end. And a little note for thrill factor.........If you read the post you will see that I stated that there is no availible money for new speakers/subs/qualified accoustician - I need to make the most of what I have for at least 14 months.I have just turned 24 and stopped working full time, and am just about to start on Intensive courses in Physics - with a veiw to study enviromental accoustics afterwards. My house (FULLY PAID I might add) is now the studio And I live in central London - the only room big enough for mixing is 15' x10' - tiny compared to what I'm used to, but will have to work I made this post asking for help , not redirection to information I have already obtained I will just have to go ahead with installing/measuring myself and find something that works. DAniel

8th March 2007, 10:05 AM	#7
DSMrehearsal Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 308	late night = no sleep for a week = me Being a grumpy Ashole Appoligies all round - I gave Up drining a few weeks ago , And have been really snappy with people since - seems to be tailing off , but still getting a little jumpy sorry to be a cok all who replied. DAniel

9th March 2007, 01:17 PM	#9
DSMrehearsal Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 308	RIGht, Plan is now to just line the alcoves as basstraps, place speakers infront of them and just put a !5 inch AtC SUB on my crdit card and just lump the fact I'm paying interest.