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Early 60's Abbey Road-eque sound with modern gear?
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#31
28th August 2009
Old 28th August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
I think the room, and the talent being recorded (and the man recording it) had a far greater impact on the recordings than any piece of gear.

I would try recording in the same room with similar techniques if I were trying to get a similar sound.

No preamp will deliver it... tube or solid state.

That's my line as well. But as correctly pointed out in RTB, The BEatles Abbey Road clearly sounded different than their prior work - the only change being the switch to the TG desk.

Emerick himself complained that he could never get the drum sounds they way he could on the older desk.

Just being a bit of the devils advocate here.
#32
28th August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
That's my line as well. But as correctly pointed out in RTB, The BEatles Abbey Road clearly sounded different than their prior work - the only change being the switch to the TG desk.
Yes, and that's surely a point of interest. However I don't think you can say that the *only* change was the desk. The only major technical change maybe. But as ever, there was experimentation with different processes and techniques (leaving aside personal tensions) - and some evolution of musical style as well as approach, all of which had a bearing on the resulting sound.

Personally I always liked the sound of that last (recorded) album. More modern feel. I know that others' MMV.
#33
29th August 2009
Old 29th August 2009
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I dont see a ton of posts on here wondering how to get the same sounds as Cliff Richard, Manfred Mann, Gerry & The Pacemakers, The Seekers, The Hollies, Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers, and Morecambe & Wise. They all recorded at Abbey Road in the 60's too.

That being said , Abbey Road and Dark Side of the Moon are my two favorite sounding records of all time. But I still think it has more to do with the music than the room and the gear. No offense to Cliff Bennet and the Rebel Rousers, I wish I could record at Abbey Road too.
#34
29th August 2009
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Its very hard to sound exactly like Beatles records recorded in Abbey Road in the 1960's because of the unique rooms of that studio and if you read the Recording The Beatles book you will realize that just about every single mic and line input was routed through some EMI custom made and or heavily modified processor and you just can't get all that stuff. They also had (and still have) an incredible vintage mic collection which is hard to recreate. Even if you can get your hands on something like a Neumann KM 54, the original nickle diaphram has been changed to a gold/mylar one and the mics sounds different.

However, there are some things you can try to sort of get in the ballpark. One major one is to use musical instruments and guitar amplifiers that are similiar to what they used. Your Marshall stack will never sound like the Vox AC30 or Fender amps they used. Your giant Tama double bass drum kit with the 5 toms will not sound like Ringo's more basic vintage Ludwig kit no matter what you do. The Gibson single coil P90 pickups were used in John, George, and Paul's Epiphone Casinos don't sound like other guitars.

The mic pres used in both the tube REDD boards and the later TC board are mostly based on German Telefunken designs (the first REDD board of course used Telefuken V72 units). You CAN buy vintage Telefunken pre amps, both tube and early solid state, and you can sort of get that sound. Obviously, vintage Neumann mics can help. A lot of the early Telefunken eq designs, like the Telefunken W95/295/395/695 used a circuit which sounds somewhat similiar to what was used back then. The Telefunken compressors, like the U373a, can have a sound a bit like Abbey Road.

All you can do is to try and get in the ball park. If it was there was some magic box or plug in which would make you sound like the Beatles, everyone would have one and they would sound like the Beatles. Behringer would have made a rip off cheap one which does not work very well.

J. Mike Perkins
#35
30th August 2009
Old 30th August 2009
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Some good ideas here. I would like to take the posotion of an optomist and think that I can get the grittier sounds and tones without the millions of dollars in studios and gear. When I look at (and listen to) the records and equipment of the era (Dylan Bringing it all Back, Beatles, Neil Young, etc) I see similar large rooms with dividers, treatments etc, an old skool analog board, tape machines, and the top notch vintage gear. Pretty straight forward, but delightful results, mainly due to the musicians involved. Tom Waits achived a great raw sound with a neve board/studer tape deck combo in a cement floored barn that originally was not intended as a studio. He had commented that the "A" facility at Prairie Sun was a "dead" room that no good music could be made in. I've recorded a demo in there and would have to agree. Big mistake not to use the utility room.

I don't have the room to do it, but am now on the search for the right place to track a demo of my old time fiddle tunes with a small band. I will slowly try to aquire a good compressor and some more mics but for now I'll work on the other aspects and reccomendation given here to fake the sound for the time being.

I also agree that most of the challenge is the talent, but good equipment is helpful to producing a good mix.
#36
30th August 2009
Old 30th August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blewgrass View Post
Some good ideas here. I would like to take the posotion of an optomist and think that I can get the grittier sounds and tones without the millions of dollars in studios and gear. When I look at (and listen to) the records and equipment of the era (Dylan Bringing it all Back, Beatles, Neil Young, etc) I see similar large rooms with dividers, treatments etc, an old skool analog board, tape machines, and the top notch vintage gear. Pretty straight forward, but delightful results, mainly due to the musicians involved. Tom Waits achived a great raw sound with a neve board/studer tape deck combo in a cement floored barn that originally was not intended as a studio. He had commented that the "A" facility at Prairie Sun was a "dead" room that no good music could be made in. I've recorded a demo in there and would have to agree. Big mistake not to use the utility room.

I don't have the room to do it, but am now on the search for the right place to track a demo of my old time fiddle tunes with a small band. I will slowly try to aquire a good compressor and some more mics but for now I'll work on the other aspects and reccomendation given here to fake the sound for the time being.

I also agree that most of the challenge is the talent, but good equipment is helpful to producing a good mix.
^+ 1000 the OP never wanted to sound like the Beatles on the first place
#37
30th August 2009
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Dunno,
You guys tell me. Was used with D19 over the kit, D20 on the kick, a U47 Mock mic for the guitars and vocals, bass was direct... Rick Bass, Ludwig drums, 1962 Casino, and my voice... I think it sounds close. The vibes there for sure... V72 Pre's and a V78 pre.. Vari Mu Compressor, Chandler Tg-1 and Fairchild Plugin....

SHE SAID SHE SAID
Download do desktop below
files.me.com/clay.blair/uljen1.mp3
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#38
30th August 2009
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It's clearly a modern record (it's bright!) but you've definitely got the vibe going there, man!
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#39
30th August 2009
Old 30th August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
Dunno,
You guys tell me. Was used with D19 over the kit, D20 on the kick, a U47 Mock mic for the guitars and vocals, bass was direct... Rick Bass, Ludwig drums, 1962 Casino, and my voice... I think it sounds close. The vibes there for sure... V72 Pre's and a V78 pre.. Vari Mu Compressor, Chandler Tg-1 and Fairchild Plugin....

SHE SAID SHE SAID
Download do desktop below
files.me.com/clay.blair/uljen1.mp3
Wow i'm very impress and inspired !! i'm trying to achieve the same effect on a totally different context, i'm into boogaloo NY spanish soul music, it can be done !!
#40
30th August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
Dunno,
You guys tell me. Was used with D19 over the kit, D20 on the kick, a U47 Mock mic for the guitars and vocals, bass was direct... Rick Bass, Ludwig drums, 1962 Casino, and my voice... I think it sounds close. The vibes there for sure... V72 Pre's and a V78 pre.. Vari Mu Compressor, Chandler Tg-1 and Fairchild Plugin....

SHE SAID SHE SAID
Download do desktop below
files.me.com/clay.blair/uljen1.mp3
Well done! Definitely got the vibe for sure...
#41
30th August 2009
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I really like the DW-FEARN tube mic pre.You will need right mic and eq etc but hey
#42
30th August 2009
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I think that there is a lot to be said about the micing techniques as well. You can imply these tones. Less mics will get you farther. Starts at the source. Tuning, cymbal selection, drum heads, guitar string guage, etc... lots of little nuance. There is a lot of organic goodness there.
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#43
30th August 2009
Old 30th August 2009
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I'll bet you could set up a mackie mixer, mike up Paul and Ringo in studio 2 with 4 SM-57s and you'd get something much closer to that sound than using the original gear somewhere else on somebody else.
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#44
30th August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I'll bet you could set up a mackie mixer, mike up Paul and Ringo in studio 2 with 4 SM-57s and you'd get something much closer to that sound than using the original gear somewhere else on somebody else.
haha ~ you checked hamburger58 recording sounds awesome dude
#45
30th August 2009
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I'll give you one more..
Again only using V72's as pre's. U47 Copy on acoustic and vocals. I actually used the U47 copy on the amps too.. Using Gretsch Guitars, Gibson Acoustic, Ludwig Drums, Vintage Hofner Bass.. Makes a difference. You can't nail the Beatle sound with a few Tele's and Peavey amps!

http://[URL="http://files.me.com/clay.blair/4t5leq.mp3"]files.me.com/clay.blair/4t5leq.mp3[/URL]

Thanks for the kind comments!
#46
30th August 2009
Old 30th August 2009
  #46
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You can't 'nail The Beatles' sound', period.


If you put one mic up in the middle of the room in Abbey Road Studio 2 and put almost anything in front of it, you immediately hear 'THAT sound' that you've heard in your head for all these years.


It doesn't make John Mayer in that room sound like Pink Floyd, but the room has a very distinctive sound.
As anyone who has spent any time recording in it knows.




ps. if you use a 'recreation' Chandler EMI, a 'recreation" 47 'copy', and 'recreation' Casino, a 'recreation' AC30, and so on... you SHOULD realise you are using NOTHING like what they used.
right?
they only look the same.
#47
30th August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
You can't 'nail The BEatles' sound', period.


If you put one mic up in the middle of the room in Abbey Road Studio 2 and put almost anything in front of it, you immediately hear 'THAT sound' that you're heard in your head for all these years.


It doesn't make John Mayer in that room sound like Pink Floyd, but the room has a very distinctive sound.
As anyone who has spent any time recording in it knows.




ps. if you use a 'recreation' Chandler EMI, a 'recreation" 47 'copy', and 'recreation' Casino, a 'recreation' AC30, and so on... you SHOULD realise you are using NOTHING like what they used.
right?
they only look the same.
Hmm a 64 Vox AC30, A 62 Casino? Those are not what they used? I seem to recall McCartney purchased a 62 Casino and still uses it. Read what I wrote before you bash.

And realise is spelled like so : realize.

I'm using nothing like what they used? Well let's hear your Beatles recordings.

I posted these to be helpful to show it could be done. And if you had any mind about you, you'd know that She Said She Said was done in Studio 3 which doesn't really have a unique sound. It's quite a normal room and a bit smaller. I've been in all 3 rooms. If I was trying to redo I Want To Hold Your Hand, it'd be much harder than something off of Revolver..

IF you're going to bash other peoples recording work, please do your homework before you bash.
#48
30th August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
You can't 'nail The BEatles' sound', period.


If you put one mic up in the middle of the room in Abbey Road Studio 2 and put almost anything in front of it, you immediately hear 'THAT sound' that you're heard in your head for all these years.


It doesn't make John Mayer in that room sound like Pink Floyd, but the room has a very distinctive sound.
As anyone who has spent any time recording in it knows.




ps. if you use a 'recreation' Chandler EMI, a 'recreation" 47 'copy', and 'recreation' Casino, a 'recreation' AC30, and so on... you SHOULD realise you are using NOTHING like what they used.
right?
they only look the same.

Hey you're a fellow BeatGear guy, you know I know my stuff... That's not cool man.
#49
31st August 2009
Old 31st August 2009
  #49
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Great recording! Is that done in the studio in the link on your signature?

A near perfect recreation. The drums sound great as do the guitar and vocals. Nice job!

Now...if someone can do that in a project home studio we'd be getting somewhere!

#50
31st August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
Hmm a 64 Vox AC30, A 62 Casino? Those are not what they used? I seem to recall McCartney purchased a 62 Casino and still uses it. Read what I wrote before you bash.

And realise is spelled like so : realize.

I'm using nothing like what they used? Well let's hear your Beatles recordings.

I posted these to be helpful to show it could be done. And if you had any mind about you, you'd know that She Said She Said was done in Studio 3 which doesn't really have a unique sound. It's quite a normal room and a bit smaller. I've been in all 3 rooms. If I was trying to redo I Want To Hold Your Hand, it'd be much harder than something off of Revolver..

IF you're going to bash other peoples recording work, please do your homework before you bash.
I'm not "bashing you, or your work" but rather the IDEA that one "recreates" that space or that band's recordings in that space in any meaningful way.

Okay, you have a 60's guitar and amp. Is it a 60's U47? Is it an EMI mixer? are you in THAT room?

you have "been in all 3 rooms" meaning you've WORKED in them? recorded there? As an engineer, producer, musician? what?


I don't have "Beatles recordings" because I have alas never had the opportunity to record The Beatles.
I do have records I've made at Abbey Road. They don't sound like The Beatles or Pink Floyd.
They DO sound like that room.
#51
31st August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post

And realise is spelled like so : realize.
Not in actual English.

You'll never "nail the Beatles' if you can't spell like an Englishman.

Do yourself a favour. <g>
#52
31st August 2009
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carlheinz,

Your avatar... looks like a J-37 without its "shell" and placed inside an anvil case?!?
#53
1st September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
Not in actual English.

You'll never "nail the Beatles' if you can't spell like an Englishman.

Do yourself a favour. <g>

Never worked in those rooms no. But seen them and played around for a bit. You can rest your case. Not really sure what your problem is with me, but it's quite rude and uncalled for. These recordings are fun for me. I'm sure playing bass for Cyndi Lauper is fun, but it does not give you a right to make me look like an idiot on a public forum.

I'm only 22 years old. I am proud of what I do and work hard at it. But if insulting me is what gets you off, please continue. I do not plan to keep replying to your comments.
#54
1st September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
Not in actual English.

You'll never "nail the Beatles' if you can't spell like an Englishman.

Do yourself a favour. <g>
somebody reach out and speak to you in your native language, the speaker drops a few mistakes here and there, you made fun him, is that a classic english behavior ? or low life no class youtube bull.. no se?
#55
1st September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
...But if insulting me is what gets you off, please continue. I do not plan to keep replying to your comments.

If closing your mind to real information from someone who's only really trying to help you, and doing so from a wealth of experience, "gets you off, please continue."

He wasn't insulting you, he was just expressing an opinion. And the spelling thing is a joke -- see the <g>?

You're all wound up, and you're burning bridges with people who can help you. Chill.









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#56
1st September 2009
Old 1st September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I'll bet you could set up a mackie mixer, mike up Paul and Ringo in studio 2 with 4 SM-57s and you'd get something much closer to that sound than using the original gear somewhere else on somebody else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
You can't 'nail The Beatles' sound', period.
If you put one mic up in the middle of the room in Abbey Road Studio 2 and put almost anything in front of it, you immediately hear 'THAT sound' that you've heard in your head for all these years.
It doesn't make John Mayer in that room sound like Pink Floyd, but the room has a very distinctive sound.
As anyone who has spent any time recording in it knows.
I get the "the room has a very distinctive sound" - part.
It's a very good sounding room. Great !

What I don't get is that - according to you -
all of these tracks "MUST" lack THAT sound, then:

Can't Buy Me Love
Komm Gib Mir Deine Hand
Sie Liebt Dich
Fixing A Hole
Hey Jude
Baby You're A Rich Man
All You Need Is Love
Something
You Never Give Me Your Money
It's All Too Much
Your Mother Should Know
The Inner Light
Dear Prudence
Honey Pie
Savoy Truffle
Martha My Dear
I Want You(She's So Heavy)
Sgt. Pepper (Reprise)
as well as some of the tracks on "Revolver"
plus the rooftop gig tracks and anything live...?

I wonder how many people go:
Uh, it's not quite THAT Beatles-sound I' m used to
when listening to "Can't Buy Me Love" or "Dear Prudence".

Do you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
I do have records I've made at Abbey Road. They don't sound like The Beatles or Pink Floyd.
Why not when:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
just the sound of the AUDIENCE clapping along in THAT room sounds instantly "like" a Beatles record.
You're confusing me, sorry !

The Beatles recorded in Studio 2 Abbey Road sound like the Beatles. For real !
The Beatles recorded outside of Studio 2 do NOT sound like... ???
An audience clapping along in Studio 2 sounds "like" a Beatle record
but other bands recorded in Studio 2 sound like "the room" ?
And "Hamburg58" playing and singing a Beatle song using authentic instruments
has no chance to nail the sound because he didn't record it at Studio 2 ?

Are we talking about a band or a room or a sound ?
Are the band and the room they were recorded in most of the time and their sound the same thing ?
Have you ever been in a cockpit before ?
Have you ever seen a grown man naked ?
#57
1st September 2009
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Lol.






#58
1st September 2009
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Not being snarky, but why do those Beatles records sound good? I don't mean "how did they get the sound"...but rather, why is it good?

The drums sound like pitter patter (as did many at the time). The vocal tone is rough around the edges. It's my personal opinion (and mine alone) that there are other records that sound just as good if not better.

When I put on the disc...I think smile...not what comes to my face, but the EQ curve.
#59
1st September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldstone View Post
Not being snarky, but why do those Beatles records sound good? I don't mean "how did they get the sound"...but rather, why is it good?

The drums sound like pitter patter (as did many at the time). The vocal tone is rough around the edges. It's my personal opinion (and mine alone) that there are other records that sound just as good if not better.

When I put on the disc...I think smile...not what comes to my face, but the EQ curve.
Like the previous poster said, you could stick The Beatles in any studio like the one they did Baby You're A Rich Man in or the French studio where Can't Buy Me Love, and the German versions of I Wanna Hold Your Hand and She Loves You were done.

Those recordings still sounded plenty like The Beatles. They went through all sorts of guitars... Rickenbackers and Gretsches in the early days with vox amps.. And later on Fender Amps and Telecasters and Casinos.... They recorded in the tiny Saville Row studios and still sounded like, The Beatles...

I don't think the room at Abbey Road has that much to do with it honestly. Sure for the live sound of those first few early records, but for the most part it's those four guys. And people did the best they knew how in capturing it. EMI was behind the US in recording technique and gear even. They didn't really catch up to the Americans until the early to mid 70's. In 69, Abbey Road was the first record to ever use an 8 track.

Still, 2 track or 8. They still always sounded like The Beatles. Abbey Road or Olympic Studios... Still sounds like The Beatles. If they had recorded on a Neve console and a Pro Tools HD setup... It probably still would have sounded like The Beatles...
#60
1st September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty Planet View Post
If closing your mind to real information from someone who's only really trying to help you, and doing so from a wealth of experience, "gets you off, please continue."

He wasn't insulting you, he was just expressing an opinion. And the spelling thing is a joke -- see the <g>?

You're all wound up, and you're burning bridges with people who can help you. Chill.




Yes I think I misread and mistook what he was saying. But like another poster has said, it is quite confusing the logic in what he has said. I get the room part that he's saying... But that doesn't mean I "can't" get that sound, because I did.

...





Yes I think I misread and mistook what he was saying. But like another poster has said, it is quite confusing the logic in what he has said. I get the room part that he's saying... But that doesn't mean I "can't" get that sound, because I did.

...
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