Pendulum preamp users chime in

[gainreduction]

Narrowing down my choices for a 2-channel tube pre.

The Pendulum MDP-1 looks like the winner but the unbalanced output scares me off. Everything in my room is balanced.

Could this cause problems further down the chain ? Headroom issues ?

Anybody had a hard time 'coz of the unbalanced op ?

Thanx for helping.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Narrowing down my choices for a 2-channel tube pre.

The Pendulum MDP-1 looks like the winner but the unbalanced output scares me off. Everything in my room is balanced.

Could this cause problems further down the chain ? Headroom issues ?

Anybody had a hard time 'coz of the unbalanced op ?

.

Really ? I even have not noticed it yet ... and using it for quite a long time. What kind of problems do you expect ?

[ABGen]

yep - i didn't notice the outputs were unbalanced until after I bought mine - all my i/o is balanced mogami cables - but honestly - i haven't noticed this thing is AWESOME - i love it.

[sdelsolray]

The MDP-1a has a +35dB output ceiling. No headroom issues with it at all. You can get it with tranny/balanced outputs, but Greg doesn't recommend it.

I've used a MDP-1a for about 6 years, only for solo fingerstyle acoustic and classical guitar. It's a wonderful preamp. I also use the Pendulum solid state preamp, the SPS-1, which is primarily designed for live/gigging work, but has two very decent mic pres in it as well.

One other things about the MDP-1 that folks don't comment much about is the plethora of features it has. It's feature set is well beyond your common feature set.

[Johns]

No problems with the unbalanced outs here. Also, the MDP-1 has a great DI and line in, and adjustable low cut filter.

[JonCraig]

a room i work in pretty regularly has one. absolutely fantastic on acoustic gtr & female vox.

--jon

[dashamu]

What transformers on this unit are you guys using? I want a pre for acoustic instruments but need it to work great for vocal recording. The description on the Pendulum website states that the Jensen transformer is best for intruments and the 'custom wound' for 'focused' vocals, so....which one is the best all-arounder?
I was considering the Aurora GTQ2MKIII for an all-around pre but after reading about the MDP-1 I'm beginning to rethink my choice. I know these two units are different animals but I can only afford one right now. Darn.
Does anyone have both units and if so, what do you think?

[piano]

Love mine!

I never even knew the outputs were unballanced untill this thread. I'm more of a musian than an engineer.

No problems, all joy ---- was a recomendation for my purposes from Fletcher over a DW Fearn many years back and I have been very happy with it.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Narrowing down my choices for a 2-channel tube pre.

The Pendulum MDP-1 looks like the winner but the unbalanced output scares me off. Everything in my room is balanced.

Could this cause problems further down the chain ? Headroom issues ?

Anybody had a hard time 'coz of the unbalanced op ?

Thanx for helping.

Well this comes up so often I think it is time to set the record straight, at least a little.

I mean no disrespect with this question but do you know how balanced signals work and what balanced audio is used for? I think if you did you would not be so worried about it and just buy the thing, I hear it is a top notch piece of kit.

So...... balanced audio..... (the short version)

The "sending" device takes your audio and splits in in two and then inverts 1 leg, this is why you have a + and a - on your mic cables.

Because mic level is so low the signal from a microphone is very susceptible to outside interference. As these 2 out of phase signals travel down the cable they pick up noise. When they reach the "receiving" gear the negative side is inverted back to to the same phase as the positive side and any noise that was pick up along the journey is canceled out.

GREAT right?

Hear is the other side of the story.

1) Some designers feel that when you split and recombine audio like this there is a hit to the quality. Some distortion and phase anomalies can be introduced to the audio path even with the best of designs.

2) After the preamp increases the gain from the mic any outside interference is much less noticeable in the path.

3) The shorter your path between mics and your preamps and the shorter the path between all your gear the less likely you are going to pick up outside noise. Keep your path short and you shouldn't have a problem.

4) Inside most consoles, after the audio is recombined it remains unbalanced for the rest of the trip and there is a lot of wire in a console to worry about in terms of interference yet this didn't worry Rupert all that much did it? Maybe because after the audio reaches line level interference is not as big a deal? Maybe the interference introduced into the line level signal path will not degrade the audio as much as all the inversion and recombining that would have to be done at each strange would? Think about that for a minute or two....

The point is that the very last thing you would worry about is that the Pendulum has an unbalanced output. The fact that it has an unbalanced output might mean it actually sounds better.



Good luck.... and go get the thing and let us know how it sounds....

thumbsup

[ABGen]

Originally Posted by dashamu

What transformers on this unit are you guys using? I want a pre for acoustic instruments but need it to work great for vocal recording. The description on the Pendulum website states that the Jensen transformer is best for intruments and the 'custom wound' for 'focused' vocals, so....which one is the best all-arounder?
I was considering the Aurora GTQ2MKIII for an all-around pre but after reading about the MDP-1 I'm beginning to rethink my choice. I know these two units are different animals but I can only afford one right now. Darn.
Does anyone have both units and if so, what do you think?

the best all arounder is the MDP1A...IMHO

i use it for vocals et al - and its awesome

[massimo]

Hi,
I had tried this on another thread, with little luck, so here I am again:
I am very happy with my Millennia HV3 and Great River preamps. I am considering now a tube preamp for a different flavor - applications mostly classical and acoustic guitar. I have narrowed it down to the Pendulum, the Fearn, and the Tab Funk V72. Has anyone ever compared these?
Any comment would be most welcome
thanks

best regards
Massimo

[gainreduction]

not so new: thanks for your concern and the crash course in balanced audio. I know how it works already but...

...the reason I'm still asking is people have had interfacing issues with other unbalanced/balanced gear combos. Api 550 eq's and Digi192 interfaces for example which don't seem to go along well, losing 6dB headroom.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

the reason I'm still asking is people have had interfacing issues with other unbalanced/balanced gear combos.

Then they're wiring things incorrectly... there should be no loss, no problems when hooking up unbalanced gear to balanced gear if the wiring is right. If you're doing long runs in a high RF environment [like a building in NYC] then balanced can indeed be an issue... if you're doing shorter runs you should be fine [the town I'm in, we never have RF issues so we don't bum out if a piece has an unbalanced output... as long as it sounds great which the MDP-1 does!].

[gainreduction]

Thanx Fletcher.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by dashamu

What transformers on this unit are you guys using? I want a pre for acoustic instruments but need it to work great for vocal recording. The description on the Pendulum website states that the Jensen transformer is best for intruments and the 'custom wound' for 'focused' vocals, so....which one is the best all-arounder?
I was considering the Aurora GTQ2MKIII for an all-around pre but after reading about the MDP-1 I'm beginning to rethink my choice. I know these two units are different animals but I can only afford one right now. Darn.
Does anyone have both units and if so, what do you think?

There are three versions of the MDP-1, the "a", "b" and "c". The "a" has two of the Jenen trannies, the "b" has two of the custom wound trannies and the "c" has one of each. You could get the "c", but that would hamper using the pre to record in stereo/dual mono, as each channel would sound different, all other things being equal.

[dashamu]

Thanks for the info re:transformer options. I'd probably go for option A.
I'll be getting the Aurora GTQ2MKIII next week and then I'll want something to balance that 'nevish' thing. I record a lot of acoustic instruments so openess and transparency are what I'll be looking for in the next pre.
It's coming down to a choice between the Pendulum and the Buzz MA2.2.
The features on the MDP-1 make it very attractive but the reviews on the Buzz make it hard to resist. I wish I could have both of them in my studio for a few weeks and make a decision based on my own ears. Any dealers out their willing to send two and take one back?
thanks again

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by massimo

Hi,
I had tried this on another thread, with little luck, so here I am again:
I am very happy with my Millennia HV3 and Great River preamps. I am considering now a tube preamp for a different flavor - applications mostly classical and acoustic guitar. I have narrowed it down to the Pendulum, the Fearn, and the Tab Funk V72. Has anyone ever compared these?
Any comment would be most welcome
thanks

best regards
Massimo

Within 2-3 weeks I will finally try this hidden gem ... If it sounds the same great as G10 and G14, then my preamp waters may shake a bit. Anyone here ever tried it ?

[Pohaku]

Originally Posted by massimo

Hi,
I had tried this on another thread, with little luck, so here I am again:
I am very happy with my Millennia HV3 and Great River preamps. I am considering now a tube preamp for a different flavor - applications mostly classical and acoustic guitar. I have narrowed it down to the Pendulum, the Fearn, and the Tab Funk V72. Has anyone ever compared these?
Any comment would be most welcome
thanks

best regards
Massimo

I have a Pendulum MDP-1 and a couple channels of Millennia. The Pendulum is pretty smooth, clear and hi-fi. Wonderful for acoustic instruments and voice (as I use it). While you can crank the gain and control the output, it may not be the sound you were hoping for in a tube pre if you have an HV3. It is definitely in the "clean" camp. I actually use a VMP-2 if I want a sound that is more demonstrably "tubey". You might consider A-Designs as well.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Hi,
I had tried this on another thread, with little luck, so here I am again:
I am very happy with my Millennia HV3 and Great River preamps. I am considering now a tube preamp for a different flavor - applications mostly classical and acoustic guitar. I have narrowed it down to the Pendulum, the Fearn, and the Tab Funk V72. Has anyone ever compared these?
Any comment would be most welcome
thanks

best regards
Massimo

Massimo,
My brother is coming over tomorrow or the next day to do some recording. I'll try to make a couple of recordings of acoustic guitar using his TAB V-78m and my D.W. Fearn VT-1 Preamps, along with my Neve Portico 5012. I'll post them up on Gearslutz when I get them done.

Gonzo

[James R.]

Here's one more vote for the Pendulum. I have the MDP-1A and just love it. Great DI in it also. A great Hi-Fi preamp. Don't worry about it being unbalanced. I have mine going to one of my unbalanced patch bays so I can slip into any channel of my console.
If you're going directly into your A/D convertor and it has a unbalanced in, no problem. Wiring instructions are provided in the manual for unbalanced and balanced operation.
Quite a while back I read on a post where someone was even using it across the buss for mixdown. One more option.
Hope this has been helpful and good luck with your decision.



James R.

[84K]

Pendulum preamp user since 1998. I have used it on every type instrument I reocord with every tye of mic, and I have never been let down. It is my favorite tube preamp.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Then they're wiring things incorrectly... t.

Absolutely right. I don't understand the paranoia about unbalanced outputs. If you're wired correctly there is a 95% chance you'll never know it's unbalanced. Less electronics, less circuitry, better sound - all things being equal. if you have a wiring problem, FIX it or learn how to do the wiring correctly. Plenty of reading around here....

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by drBill

Absolutely right. I don't understand the paranoia about unbalanced outputs. If you're wired correctly there is a 95% chance you'll never know it's unbalanced. Less electronics, less circuitry, better sound -

Maybe a bit lower output ... When I was trying ribbons, I found Pendulum has reasonable lower output than DAV (although theoretically it should be just 3dB - 63dB vs 66 dB DAV)

[Geddyleewannabe]

What's the best way to convert the unbalanced output signal of the Pendulum (without opening the Pendulum and rewiring it) into a balanced signal so I can run it into my Mytek ADC (which only has balanced inputs) without affecting the signal in any way?

[Geddyleewannabe]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I just took a look at the Pendulum website, and looking at the current photo of the rear side of the unit, it appears that the unit now has balanced (as well as unbalanced) outputs. Am I seeing this right?
After going to the MDP-1 page, click on MDP-1 Specifications (at bottom of page) to get to a photo of the rear of the unit.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Geddyleewannabe

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I just took a look at the Pendulum website, and looking at the current photo of the rear side of the unit, it appears that the unit now has balanced (as well as unbalanced) outputs. Am I seeing this right?
After going to the MDP-1 page, click on MDP-1 Specifications (at bottom of page) to get to a photo of the rear of the unit.

From the MDP operating manual:

Outputs
· To the left of the input jacks are the output jacks for channels 1 and 2. The male XLR connectors on top are 3 pin unbalanced outputs, with Pin 1 + Pin 3 = ground, and Pin 2 = output.

Just because it _looks_ balanced doesn't mean it is balanced.

You can plug an unbalanced line into a balanced input jack with no problems in nearly all situations. Anything minus zero remains anything.

The only problem is trying to unbalance a balanced signal from some units: some units require + and - connections to drive simultaneously.

[Geddyleewannabe]

Originally Posted by peeder

From the MDP operating manual:



Just because it _looks_ balanced doesn't mean it is balanced.

You can plug an unbalanced line into a balanced input jack with no problems in nearly all situations. Anything minus zero remains anything.

The only problem is trying to unbalance a balanced signal from some units: some units require + and - connections to drive simultaneously.

thumbsup Excellent, thank you!

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Geddyleewannabe

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I just took a look at the Pendulum website, and looking at the current photo of the rear side of the unit, it appears that the unit now has balanced (as well as unbalanced) outputs. Am I seeing this right?
After going to the MDP-1 page, click on MDP-1 Specifications (at bottom of page) to get to a photo of the rear of the unit.

When I purchased my MDP-1a, I had Greg make some unbalanced to balanced cables, designed to go into my external converters. I don't remeber if he let the cold wire hang free at the end or wired it to ground. The Rane.com website has a lengthy aarticle on cable wiring.

[Geddyleewannabe]

That's ok...I'm not worried about having unbalanced outputs. I was just concerned about having XLR outputs to connect to my AD converter.

Thanks for the reply thoughthumbsup .

[rids]

I'm going for the Electronaut M63. The A Designs MP-2A was a close second. But I'm looking for some color which these seem to have more of over the MDP-1.