"True to Original" ELAM 251 (Soundelux-Korby)?

[JB3]

Notwithstanding that every "vintage" microphone sounds a little different from another depending on age, care, environment, etc. And given that a lot of the new clones are aiming and claiming to sound close to their target original issues, including Telefunken themselves...

I am currently evaluating two ELAM 251 Microphone clones. The Soundelux 251 (highly thought of in most of these threads, although critiqued for being a little "scooped" in the mids in a review or two). and a Korby convertible 251.

For being clones claiming to approach the same sound, these two are remarkably different to my auditioning ear. Have any of you had an opportunity to audition these two microphones together, or on seperate occasions, or to audition either against a well-liked original ELAM 251?

My question to you would be: which more closely approaches the sound of the original, if either (having never had the opportunity to audition one myself), since both clones seem to sound wonderful in their own right, the Korby seeming to me to be slightly fuller overall .

"Good luck...we're all counting on you..." ...Leslie Nielsen, Airport

Thanks for your input guys...

...J

[tunesmith]

I actually JUST auditioned these two mics a week and a half ago.

I chose the Soundelux. I thought the Korby had a more hyped top end but not a lot of depth and detail in the midrange. It should be noted that as a vocalist I tend to push a LOT of air so it doesn't take much for my vocals to get too sizzley for my taste.

I fell in love with the ELUX 251 through a Daking pre/eq and that's what I chose. It arrives sometime early next week.... yippee!

Tunes

[SolipsismX]

wow, i know a lot of people in forums who have been looking for direct comparisons between these two mics for a while and here are two people who have. Now all we need is somebody who has done a shootout between an L251 and a Korby.
I got questions for you both.

Tunesmith, I'm assuming you tried out other capsules, what did you think of them and if possible, can you compare them to comparable mics (like the 47 capsule vs the E47)

JB3, what is your opinion of your mic shootout so far? Also, what are your feelings regarding other capsules?

[tunesmith]

tried the 47 capsule.

I have never used the real thing, so there you go. I will tell you that (again) compared to the Soundelux, it lacked depth and detail. As for specific comparisons between the two capsules, you'll have to forgive that I can't really remember the diffrences. We were shooting out about 4 mics (Korby, u99, 251, and Valvet), 5 pres (TG2, Daking, LTD1, 737, API) and 4 comps (distressors, 33609, C2, Varimu) So it all kind of blends together.

To my ears, on my voice, the 251 was consistently more detailed, warmer, and still had all kinds of sparkle up top.

My .02

Tunes

[dave-G]

The only time I've ever used the ELUX, I thought it sounded brighter, more sibilant and less "relaxed", for lack of a better word, than my original ELA M251. Then again, the only times I've ever heard my 251 alongside other 251's, I've preferred mine.

Nathan Eldred and I had very loosely discussed getting together some day and checking out an ELUX next to my original.. I'm curious to do so, and if we can ever mesh our schedules (someday) to get it done, I'll resurrect this thread and post a link to some audio files...

Hey, I just volunteered Nate's time to do something...
I guess I'm buying the sushi and sake afterwards.

-dave

[Meriphew]

I'm an owner, and big fan of the Soundelux Elux 251. As far as the Korby and Soundelux sounding different, most people who have used original Tele 251's will tell you they also vary in sound from one to the next.

[ziegenh5]

I auditioned the Korby convertible a while back. The 67 was the best capsule, the others were less inspiring. Overall, I've been more impressed with the Soundelux mics I have heard, E47, U195, U95. Still, I prefer my Neumann's to any of the "clones" I have heard. YMMV.
Sean

[Ruphus]

Originally posted by dave-G
The only time I've ever used the ELUX, I thought it sounded brighter, more sibilant and less "relaxed", for lack of a better word, than my original ELA M251. Then again, the only times I've ever heard my 251 alongside other 251's, I've preferred mine.

Nathan Eldred and I had very loosely discussed getting together some day and checking out an ELUX next to my original.. I'm curious to do so, and if we can ever mesh our schedules (someday) to get it done, I'll resurrect this thread and post a link to some audio files...

Hey, I just volunteered Nate's time to do something...
I guess I'm buying the sushi and sake afterwards.

-dave

Hello Dave,

While rehearsing this thread came into my mind. ( I´m trying not to, but often find myself putting the hands on autopilot and go peripherally roaming in mind tutt ) And I thought that the manufacturers of these new mics must be pretty good at rebuilding as they arn´t afraid to let customers in their shops compare their own mics to original examples. From their I assumed that if their mics could appear lacking somewhere it would be for a good part, because of the examples they used. If so they should be eager after a top conditoned original.
Seen from there I figured maybe it would give sense if you contacted either David Bock or Mr. Korby and offered them your M251 as an example.
Could be they would wellcome the opportunity to adapt their mics to it and offer you something nice like e.g. long-run maintanance service or even one of their clones matched to your original, or whatever.

Just a thought down the guitar neck.

Ruphus

[mlocascio]

Originally posted by tunesmith
I actually JUST auditioned these two mics a week and a half ago.

I chose the Soundelux. I thought the Korby had a more hyped top end but not a lot of depth and detail in the midrange. It should be noted that as a vocalist I tend to push a LOT of air so it doesn't take much for my vocals to get too sizzley for my taste.

I fell in love with the ELUX 251 through a Daking pre/eq and that's what I chose. It arrives sometime early next week.... yippee!

Tunes

I hope you like the one you get. I always make it a point to have the option to purchase the actual piece of gear I'm auditioning, should I like it. To my ears, no two pieces of gear sound identical.

Best of luck.

[kingsley]

I've had the SD 251 and the Korby at my studio for a good week. comparing the two "251's" i choose the Korby. I really liked the the midrange, it was very detailed and open. The SD was more scooped out and alittle more sizzle. That is what i found beautiful with entire korby system it can be bright and open not have that excess sizzle. I had three different singers come in and they all sounded best with different heads. It was very exciting to hear a singer sing through the right capsule. And absolute wonderful mic!

[tunesmith]

Thanks for the good luck wishes with the gear. I actually am purchasing the actual 251 and pre I auditioned.

As for the other comment about choosing the Korby over the 251, it just goes to show you that different ears have different tastes and that's what makes the world go round, so cheers!

The nice thing about gear at this level is that (with notable exceptions) most everything becomes an issue of taste, rather then, "which sucks less..."

It's nice to have a little budget....

Tunes.

[epicenter800]

I hate to add to the confusion. You owe it to yourself to also check out the Lawson L251. I used to own an Elux and just recently purchased the L251. I really like the variable pattern of the Lawson since I have a not too great vocal booth. The Elux in Cardioid mode revealed my room's shortcomings. The price for the Lawson is pretty cool in addition to its upgrade capability.

[JB3]

Epicenter,

Is the Lawson "continuosly" variable, or switched position variable. In addition, are the new Lawsons convertible also, with heads changeable, though not hot-swap like the Korby?

The Elux, I believe, is three position variable, although I haven't gotten to doing that yet.

...J

[epicenter800]

J,
The Lawson is continously variable unlike the Soundelux which only has the 3 switched positions. The heads are interchangeable. Last night after reading the thread I listened to a track where I casually (unscientifically) compared a few mics on the same vocalists, same song, same pre, and found the high end to be very similar amongst the Soundelux and Lawson. I did find a difference in the mids. I felt the Soundelux was a tiny bit more scooped and the 250hz a tiny bit boosted. Again, this was just an unscientific comparison.

I hate to sound like a salesman, but I feel the really cool part of the Lawson's are the price and the interchangeabilty of the heads!

[lucey]

Originally posted by epicenter800
J,

I hate to sound like a salesman, but I feel the really cool part of the Lawson's are the price and the interchangeabilty of the heads!

interchangeable heads on a Lawson? huh?!

Korby makes that mic ...

[epicenter800]

According to Lawson, his mics have always been interchangeable. I have put the capsule/head assembly of an L47 on the body of the L251. It was pretty easy. I haven't tried the Korby, but their system seem to be a little easier to switch out the heads. With the Lawson it takes about 2 minutes. There are 3 screws. Once their out, pop off the head, stick on the other, get the 3 screws on, and then you're good to go. Another cool thing is you can purchase Lawson FET electronics for between 2-300 bucks depending on features. If you have both the L251 and L47 capsules you can now have a 251 on the tube body and the 47 on the fet or vice versa. Basically, you don't have capsules not being used. They are coming out with a 67 capusle real soon. Adding that, you can potentially have mics similar to a U47, Elam 251, U47fet, U67, and U87 for less than $3500.00. Visit the Lawson website and check out the Quick Change System to get a better idea. I don't work for Lawson but I am a really excited Lawson owner.

[Ckevperry]

Originally posted by lucey
interchangeable heads on a Lawson? huh?!

Korby makes that mic ...

Yep....but Lawson also makes mics with interchangeable heads.

Check out their website.

[JB3]

Now I'm gonna really add to the confusion...

How much of these differences we've been citing are attributable to the capsule copies and how much to the electronics?

That is to say, is the head amp (and transformer) the same in a Soundelux 251 as in the Soundelux E47 or U99 for that matter?

Or for that matter is this true in the Neumann 47 vs the U67? Is it the same electronics, changing only the tube and small variations to fit that tube (large sound changes here with small electronics changes...)?

When using the Korby you are using the same electronics changing only the capsule. With the Lawson, are the base electronics the same in the 47 body as the 251 body?

...J

[lucey]

Korby makes his caps

Soundeluxe caps are German

Lawson ... not sure


All components are unique as is each variation on the design. Transformers, layouts, power suplies, etc. Even the same tube can run the gammit from shit to heavenly, or just go sideways with varations.

[jason]

Lawson also makes a switchable capsule mic.....check out their site....
it was news to me too.
jason

[Ollie]

I have tried the Korby mic. I thought the 251 head was great. Nice top-end like a CK12 capsule, and it hand a warm sounding middle. My friend owns a KORBY mic also. He loves the 67 head as well.

I have owned Soundelux mics as well, but not the one in question. The build quality of the Soundelux mics i have own or tried is not the same quality of the Korby. Sound wise, I thought the Soundelux mics did not come close to Vintage Neumanns etc.
Again, that is not the Sound Elux 251, this is other of there high-end mics. I put there mics up against the real deal, a Neumann u48 and the u48 killed it, made it sound small.

[michael c]

Originally posted by JB3
Now I'm gonna really add to the confusion...

How much of these differences we've been citing are attributable to the capsule copies and how much to the electronics?

That is to say, is the head amp (and transformer) the same in a Soundelux 251 as in the Soundelux E47 or U99 for that matter?

Or for that matter is this true in the Neumann 47 vs the U67? Is it the same electronics, changing only the tube and small variations to fit that tube (large sound changes here with small electronics changes...)?

When using the Korby you are using the same electronics changing only the capsule. With the Lawson, are the base electronics the same in the 47 body as the 251 body?

...J

This is wrong. The Korby has a switch on the power supply to select what capsule you are using as well. This changes the electronics as well as the capsule.

I own the Korby and it is a wonderful mic. As to which mic sounds closer to the original 251 is a silly argument. When I checked out the Korby, I compared it to 2 vintage C12's I had in my studio at the time and the 2 vintage C12's sounded very much different from one another.

Listen to the mics and make your own decision. I can tell you that the Korby is an incredible mic and the 67M and 251 capsules sound beautiful and distinctly different from one another..............