Peluso 2247 & LE? Dark, refined mics for male vocal harmonies

[woomanmoomin]

I'm looking for a mic combination to cover four-part male vocal harmonies (rock-ish, definitely closer to Beach Boys than barbershop) recorded one by one. I would prefer to use four different mics for variety's sake unless somebody can tell me why I shouldn't.

I have a Peluso 22 251 as the brightest mic and a cheap-ass K2 with a fancy-pants tube at no. 2 (though I may replace the K2 with a U87 if I win the lottery or something). I would like some suggestions for two mics significantly darker than the K2, one also being significantly darker than the other. I'd prefer each of them to have a more or less flat frequency response up to about 1800 Hz, and maybe 2kHz, but they definitely need to be flat between about 1100 and 1800 Hz. Definitely no peaks in that range!!! I'd also be hoping for above-average sensitivity (say, 16+) and below-average self-noise (say, 16-).

Heard a lot of everything about the Peluso 2247 and 2247LE. Would the 2247LE sit in a mix? The frequency curve of the standard-edition 2247 makes me think it ought to make a good mic in the no. 4 (bass) position... but I have seen at least one person on here say (very recently) that he considers it brighter than the 2247LE, in spite of Dan's bright-dark-transparent-colored graph. Are the two mics actually so similar that it wouldn't make sense for me to get both anyway? Also, a lot of people seem to think the standard edition is somehow bad. Why? Because it's dark?! BUT IT'S A U47 WANNABE!! Opinions, please!?! (It ought to say 'Light at arm's length and stand well back' on here somewhere.)

I like the specs of the Shure KSM44/SL, too, but it looks a bit showcasey to me, even though I know nothing about it. Maybe I'm prejudiced because of the Shure name. What's that mic about? Can it sit in a mix?!

Thanks.

[uncle duncan]

My Peluso SB has a bump around 1K - 2K, and then it flattens back out. It's great for singers with scooped voices. I wouldn't call it bright, but I've gotten sibilance out of it with a gnarly pre. Generally don't need to EQ it, except to dump some mids if it's on the wrong singer. I've been using my Charter Oaks 538b with the warm tube option. It gives the mic more 3rd harmonic distortion, which sounds nice on vocals. The response chart has a bumpy low end, (bumps at 40, 100, 240, 380, 500) looks flat from about 800 to 2.5k, where it peaks at 4k, dips at 6k, recovers at 8k, and peaks at 12k. Kinda looks like a mountain range, and if the peaks and valleys line up with the source, it sounds great. If not, you put up something else.
I have a new ADK Hamburg IIau, which is really thick. It sounds dark, but if you use the lo rolloff switch, you get more midrange, and it sounds fabulous on bright voices. The high end is just so sweet. I love it!
I don't know what a K2 sounds like, but a 2247LE and P12 might be cool. Perhaps get both and send back the one you don't want. I've heard the Sputnik is similar to the 2247SB, and it's cheaper, so that might be worth checking out.

[woomanmoomin]

Funny. I think the original U47 with *that grille* is actually supposed to share a lot of the frequency characteristics you just listed for the Charter Oaks (though not the peaks in the lows, as far as I remember)! Unless these are monster peaks in the Charter Oaks case. Anyway I'm guessing the two mics sound pretty different...

http://mixguides.com/microphones/vin...rophones_part/

Actually, no. Not that similar at all!!!

[shortyprs]

I have a 22 252 (maybe the only one out there where Peluso put a pad and a low cut on the 251) and a 22 47. Of the mics I often work with, I'd usually look at an sm-7 for contrast. But, and this is out of left field, I've spent the last day testing out a Peluso R14 and I really like what it does for my voice. I'd use it to contrast a 22 251 in a hearbeat.

[insomnio]

The KSM44 is not a dark mic. Is very sweet and forward thou, and never brittle. For me is a nice mic for thin vocals.
I was thinking in the SM7 too.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by woomanmoomin

Opinions, please!?!

my opinion is that you are overly focused on specs, which tell you very little about how a mic actually sounds and even less about how it interacts with other things in a mix.

my other opinion is that for things like vocals, especially backing vocals, your primary concern is not darkness or brightness, it's midrange. mics that own the midrange and aren't overly weighty or sibilant are your friend. in that regard, i'm not sure the 2247 is where i'd be looking.


gregoire
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[Rick Shepherd]

Although the difference between the 2247 and the 2247LE are subtle, there is definitely a difference. I found the 2247LE to be more balanced overall and good for more sources. The 2247 has more midrange bump, and it also sounds very upfront in the mix. I think both mics are awesome! I was the person who said the 47 is not darker than the LE, and that is where I stand on that!

[woomanmoomin]

Originally Posted by u b k

my opinion is that you are overly focused on specs, which tell you very little about how a mic actually sounds and even less about how it interacts with other things in a mix.

my other opinion is that for things like vocals, especially backing vocals, your primary concern is not darkness or brightness, it's midrange. mics that own the midrange and aren't overly weighty or sibilant are your friend. in that regard, i'm not sure the 2247 is where i'd be looking.

You're probably right about specs, u b k, but generally I'm trying to have the best of all possible worlds and get mics that have adequate specs as well as some good reviews. A Marshall V69 ME, for instance, I probably would not consider because 22dB-A or whatever the figure is just puts me off the idea. A lot of people look down on the K2 as well, but I decided to get one because I liked some clips I heard, liked the specs, knew I could play around with valve selection, etc. and get better results from it than I have heard already. I have limited opportunities/inclination to try mics out.

Also, yeah, the stuff about midrange makes sense. I guess there is a relationship between brightness/darkness and midrange emphasis, but basically, yeah, I would love some mics that give good mid without being too weighty or sibilant. Just as long as I don't end up with a big heap of mid, you know. I'm getting the sense from you, u b k, that the Pelusos might give me just such a big heap!! Thanks.

So any suggestions?

I'm a tad wary of ribbon mics as all the soundclips of them I've heard have left me cold. I was interested in the Crowley & Tripp Naked Eye till I read that it had less bass than the same company's Proscenium or something. (Why get a ribbon if you don't want bass and oodles of proximity effect?!) I also heard some male-vocal clips that just sounded lifeless to me. If the dark side of the Naked Eye is even in the same ballpark as the Proscenium, I think both might disappoint me.

Thanks for all your help, folks...

[woomanmoomin]

Just started new thread upon discovering that both lead-vocal parts on the Righteous Brothers' "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'" were recorded on RCA 77 ribbon mics. Ribbons could be winning on points so far. Opinions on different ribbons much appreciated. I love the sound of the Righteous Brothers track.

[TonyBelmont]

I consider the Peluso 251 & 47 LE my main vocal microphones.. They compliment each other well. The 251 is for the modern, bright & airy sound... The 47 LE is the smooth & full bodied sound.

[woomanmoomin]

Thanks, Tony. I'm probably gonna end up getting a whole big stash of Pelusos and maybe a whole big stash of ribbons and then ritually set them alight, one by one... I still haven't even detected any hint of a consensus on the difference between the 2247 and the 2247LE (let alone which is better for which purpose or whatever)!! What possible strengths, if any, would you say the 2247 had over the LE? I figure you're familiar with them both.

[Rick Shepherd]

You will get a little more full-bodied sound out of the LE than the standard 2247, as stated before. I just found the LE version to be a perfect balance across the spectrum. Both mics are very detailed and smooth, the only difference being that the 2247 has the mid range bump, and the LE has more bottom end in it. That is the best I can tell ya, aside from just giving them a try for yourself.

[woomanmoomin]

Thanks everyone. I'm guessing the 2247 would not be right for me, but that the LE might, BUT that maybe a decent ribbon (my fave at the moment would be the C&T Naked Eye) would be at least as good a bet anyway.

Decisions, decisions...