hardware reverb for drums (i.e. fast handrums?)

[Kiwiburger]

In my limited experience, drums & percussion really exposes a weak reverb. I would typically want to hear a room sound, rather than plates or halls.

A lot of reverbs (hardware & software) aren't that great on realistic room sounds. I find my Kurzweil Rumour (or KSP8) is fairly nice for small rooms. TC3000 is fairly nice too.

But if you aren't committed to hardware, then convolution reverb can be very effective for small rooms if you have good impulses. Even impulses of Kurzweil or TC for that matter can be almost as good as the real thing. The differences become much more apparant with longer tails or artificial modulated reverbs.

[vernier]

Like my tablas dry.

[AB3]

I actually do as well. But I am just giving examples of fast percussion. I really want it for dumbek. Perhaps mandolin. Not a lot of reverb, but naturally sounding.

Originally Posted by vernier

Like my tablas dry.

[squeegybug]

AB, the funnest reverb I've ever used is this Eventide 2016





Seems I hardly have to touch an equalizer much anymore when using this box. Very unique and usable sounds, can really open up a source or mix. To me it just adds some "musical mystery" or nostalgia or something....

And so easy to dial in, all dedicated controls right on the front panel, no nested menus, it is a pleasure to work with. Highly recommended, not the cheapest but not the most $ either.

Steve

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

In my limited experience, drums & percussion really exposes a weak reverb. I would typically want to hear a room sound, rather than plates or halls.

I agree. For realistic room sound also consider the Quantec Yardstick. Kurzweil have I never used, but hear great things from it. The TC3000 would not be my choice, the Reverb4000 on the other side is again really good but has not the true realistic sound of the Yardstick.

[robot gigante]

Another candidate would be a PCM70.

[Lagerfeldt]

If you want a fairly cheap and okay reverb for fast hand drums, you could go for the TC M-One XL which will probably suit your purpose quite well.

I recently used the M-One XL for exactly that purpose on a single I mixed for Sony/BMG, middle eastern percussion with an RnB beat.

Someone mentioned M3000 which is excellent, but a lot more expensive. I have both but actually use the CSR's more.

However, as someone mentioned, percussion like that really exposes the faults in reverb units. Some will sounds horrible on percussion like that.

[Ravian]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

If you want a fairly cheap and okay reverb for fast hand drums, you could go for the TC M-One XL which will probably suit your purpose quite well.

I recently used the M-One XL for exactly that purpose on a single I mixed for Sony/BMG, middle eastern percussion with an RnB beat.

Someone mentioned M3000 which is excellent, but a lot more expensive. I have both but actually use the CSR's more.

However, as someone mentioned, percussion like that really exposes the faults in reverb units. Some will sounds horrible on percussion like that.

yep if you dail in a fast decay,some hardware/software verbs can have a metalic kind of sound

[Ravian]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

AB, the funnest reverb I've ever used is this Eventide 2016





Seems I hardly have to touch an equalizer much anymore when using this box. Very unique and usable sounds, can really open up a source or mix. To me it just adds some "musical mystery" or nostalgia or something....

And so easy to dial in, all dedicated controls right on the front panel, no nested menus, it is a pleasure to work with. Highly recommended, not the cheapest but not the most $ either.

Steve

man, i love this box .i have the plug and the plug also has that sound" musical mystery"

[AB3]

Sounds like I am between the Eventide 2016 or the TC M4000. I think I am leaning towards the Eventide. I also hard good things about the Klark Teknik
DN780 if I can find one.

And I am assuming the compliments on it relate to short decays for things like hand drums.

Regards,
AB

[Ravian]

Originally Posted by AB3

Sounds like I am between the Eventide 2016 or the TC M4000. I think I am leaning towards the Eventide. I also hard good things about the Klark Teknik
DN780 if I can find one.

And I am assuming the compliments on it relate to short decays for things like hand drums.

Regards,
AB

metalic sound is bad, bad metalic sound bad metalic sound

[cl516]

i know you're only looking for one, but from what i gather, the 4000 and the 2016 aren't really 'substitutes' for one another.

[Ravian]

what a bout re-amping the perc. 4 the early reflextions. in stereo

[sage691]

Hate to bust your bubble, but I've been thru this merry-go-round before and NOTHING will sound as good as a hand drum recorded in a real room with the type of quick-decay natural ambience you are talking about.

I'm in a 3800 sq. ft. space and we have multiple rooms here for different purposes. I am an avid FAST hand drummer myself (djembe, dmbeck, etc.), and our live room (60' X 15' X 14') makes a small drum sound 100 times BIGGER than it does in our smaller rooms. With a dynamic mic on the drum and a Lawson L47 in omni as room mic, the sound is just unbelievable and it will still cut thru in a very complex mix where other instrments are competing for space. Add a good outboard comp. to the equation and forget it -- the sound is so big you can turn it way down in the mix and it STILL cuts thru !

The problem with the hardware reverbs is that they always sound good solo'd, but when you start adding other things in the mix the hand drum will suddenly get lost and the reverb is generally the culprit. Take the reverb out and it comes back, but sounds too dry and thin. We have a TC m5000 and Lexicon 480L patched in to the aux section of a Trident series 80 console, so it's not because the reverbs are sub-par.

Like I said, they always sound great solo'd but really get lost later in the mix.

Even as good as these hardware reverbs are, it's absolutely mind blowing still how much better REAL reverb sounds--- especially on fast, pecrcussive hand drums !!! It just sticks to it like glue, and the 2 (hand drum & room sound) become inseperable as 1 sound, whereas the artificial reverb is obvious as a layer on top of the drum sound.

I'd recommend locating a studio in your area that has a good room with the tight natural ambience you are looking for, and track your stuff there then import the files into your DAW later. You'll bypass spending the $ on a reverb unit, and you'll also have a superior end result IMO.

[AB3]

I am confused Ravian - are you worried about one or more of the units I am considering.

In regard to another post -All the dumbek and like tracks are already recorded dry. Going to another room is not an option at this point.

For another project - that is a great idea.

(Actually the UAD-1 plate 140 on the slightest of settings does not sound all that bad on the dumbek. I would think one of these hardware units would work fairly well. Maybe not as ideal as going to a different room - but still good.)

Originally Posted by Ravian

metalic sound is bad, bad metalic sound bad metalic sound

[Ravian]

Originally Posted by AB3

I am confused Ravian - are you worried about one or more of the units I am considering.

In regard to another post -All the dumbek and like tracks are already recorded dry. Going to another room is not an option at this point.

For another project - that is a great idea.

(Actually the UAD-1 plate 140 on the slightest of settings does not sound all that bad on the dumbek. I would think one of these hardware units would work fairly well. Maybe not as ideal as going to a different room - but still good.)

4 fast perc you need a fast decay.
some reverb unit do not preform that well when the decay is that short.

[AB3]

Actually - at one time I had a TC M3000 and while it was not earth moving, with a little ambience it also worked out very well with dumbek.

So maybe I am over-analyzing this, especially because I do not want to add a lot of reverb. BUT I definitely do not want a metallic type sound.
Regards,
AB

Originally Posted by Ravian

4 fast perc you need a fast decay.
some reverb unit do not preform that well when the decay is that short.

[Ravian]

Originally Posted by AB3

Actually - at one time I had a TC M3000 and while it was not earth moving, with a little ambience it also worked out very well with dumbek.

So maybe I am over-analyzing this, especially because I do not want to add a lot of reverb. BUT I definitely do not want a metallic type sound.
Regards,
AB

test all your verbs with the shortes settings and see withs sounds best.
if you want metalic listen 2 the reverb in logic

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Ravian

if you want metalic listen 2 the reverb in logic

There are several reverbs in Logic, almost all of which are pretty crap. If you're on PC or an old version of Logic, that is.

The SpaceDesigner convolution reverb that comes with Logic 7 is okay. I mostly use the weird IR's for effects though.