Perfect Electric Guitar Recording

[basement]

OK, I've tried my Teles, Strat and Les Paul with the PODxt, the Vetta, the Vox Tonelab, various Digitech pedals, going DI and into Amplitube, mic'g up my '60s Blackface Fender Bassman and my 70s Silverface Fender Bassman 100 with various combinations of 57s, 421s, Royer R121, Soundelux U195 at various distances, running 'em thru my Focusrite ISA 428, UA 6176 and/or Manley Voxbox, etc. and I'm JUST NOT SATISFIED WITH MY RECORDED GUITAR SOUND. It sounds great just listening to it pump out of the amps in the studio, but once it gets recorded it loses the magic.

We have a fairly aggressive Christian pop/rock band and guitars are the centerpiece of our sound. I'm running my pres into a Digi 002 with PT LE. No matter what I try it seems I get kind of a sort of shoeboxy cheap sound that comes only about 85% close to the guitar sounds I hear on my favorite CDs (e.g., the guitar sounds on the Knack's My Sharona). I can get our drums, bass, vocals and just about everything else the way I want 'em, but not the guitar.

Anyone have any suggestions or is it just that going into digital/PT makes it virtually impossible to capture a real-live-sounding electric guitar? The closest I've been able to get is my Tele through a Tonebone Classic Distortion into the Blackface with a mixture of the R121 (at the forefront) and little bits of the other mics. Then I pan 'em both at about 72 L and R. I find that digital doubling (slapping on a slight delay) is less muddy than just replaying/re-recording another part. EQ (I use the Wave EQ plug-ins or the BombFactory Pultec primarily) helps a little, but doesn't take me all the way.

What are your top secrets of capturing great guitar tone? I'd love any help I can get! THANKS!!

[zimv20]

from a gear perspective, the digi converters seem to be the weak link.

[basement]

Shoulda mentioned that I run into the 002 thru Apogee AD/16 ADAT (to avoid the weak 002 converter issue).

[nlc201]

Have you tried mixing and matching different takes with different amps?

Sometimes it's really cool to split the guitar into multiple amps simeultaneously and mic em all up. Mix and match. Get the lower mid growl from a marshall, the upper mid shred from a boogie, the body from a bogner, etc. A lot of rock guitars you hear on good sounding records are often a mixture of various amps. If the guitar player is particularly adept at doing doubles of him/herself, you can simply record different takes from different amps instead of splitting. This can result in a great deal of thickness to the sound. It can also result in muddiness, especially if the takes are played sloppily in correlation with each other.


I remember being in the same situation once. During a session, the guitar player had dialed in a huge sound on his amp and I captured it through very decent gear and recorded the song. On playback, we weren't terribly blown away but not terribly disappointed either. It was so-so. It was around that time I accidentally unmuted the scratch guitar from the drum tracking session (which was just a generic POD sound). Instantly the guitar leapt out from the speakers and into our faces. "What the heck did you just do?!!!" the guitar player asked. I told him and we immediately went to work recording that same generic POD tone (recallable presets can be darn cool!) and really improving the tone of things.

Bottom line, experiment. Try things that seem logical in combining amps. Then try things that seem illogical. Then read Slipperman's heavy guitar thread at the Rec Pit (it applies not just to heavy guitars).

Good luck!

[zimv20]

Originally posted by basement
Shoulda mentioned that I run into the 002 thru Apogee AD/16 ADAT (to avoid the weak 002 converter issue).

you are correct

[davemc]

If your happy with the sound out of the amp.
You have good mics and good pres and good convertors.

So have you experemented with mic placement, if your using two mics then adding slap back delay to both. you could be thining out the sound with phase problems.
EQ maybe try a download of the URS neve and API eq's never big on ren EQ myself.
What monitors are you using, if you cannot hear it well its harder to EQ it.

[drundall]

Try renting a couple of Neves and compare. It'll get a lot thicker, if that's what you're missing. Above all, keep experimenting.

[STUDIO2]

Drundall,

Can you define "a bit thicker"

Lows? Low mid? A closer tighter sound?



Cheers.

[drundall]

Originally posted by STUDIO2
Drundall,

Can you define "a bit thicker"

Lows? Low mid? A closer tighter sound?



Cheers.

By that I mean lows and mids and most importantly taking up more space in the track. It's pretty much the sound of rock. You can usually leave the EQ out and still get a pretty good sound.

[DirkB]

I'll second Dundall,

If the guitar tone in the room is happening, something like a well placed SM57 or R121 through a Neve (or f.e. Chandler TG2 ) definitely should do the trick.

EQ-wise you shoudn't need to do much, perhaps a little low cut if you're close micing. However, do experiment with adding 1-2dB's at 800-2kHz, there's where I find just a little can change a lot

Good luck,
Dirk

[duaneadam]

It sounds great just listening to it pump out of the amps in the studio, but once it gets recorded it loses the magic.

I've found some amps sound great to the ears but not to a mic. Can you get the tone you want through the studio monitors or headphones prior to recording? If not you're going to need to try different amps/guitars/mics etc.

However, if it sounds good in the monitors/headphones before recording, the only remaining step is the conversion/recording process although I doubt thats where the problem is.

I would keep experimenting with different amps. I have found the best tones with the goofiest combinations of things that technically shouldn't sound good but do. I have most of the mics you mentioned but like the new Sennheiser e609 silver as it has a real in your face, bright but not too bright sound which is perfect for electric guitar. When you do find the right tone, you won't need multiple mics and plugins, the tone will stand on its own.

Duaneadam

[Finstad]

I record mainly power guitar (heavy metal...), and I am happy with the guitar sound on 95% on the records...
This is what I do...

1. You must have a guitar player who have TONE in his fingers.
Bad player, Bad sound.

2. Fresh guitar with new strings. I let the guitar player replace strings about every 5. hour. Minimum 012 strings.

3. Often, let the player dub the rythm guitar 3 times on the laft side, and 3 times on the right side (the player must be TIGHT!)

4. Use different amps on every "side dub" For me: Triaxis, the new Crate, JMP 1 with te old Marshall 9000 power amp, and maybe the......POD...about 20% in.

5. Link 3-4 amps with a guitar splitter. everyone on separate tracks.

6. I use API 212 pres with MD 421, SM57 and I will recive the Royer in a minute, and look forward to that..

7. Put the guitar pretty loud in the mix.

8. Mix the shit on a analog console!!!!!!!!!!!!


Have fun!

Finstad

[lucey]

hot to tape machine pass thru
and

neve/aurora audio pre
or
api pre

(you've heard these a million times so they may be what youre lacking)


plus the mics could be changed ... R84 and e609 Silver are my combos today

all the best!

[Drumsound]

You should also think about where the amp is. I have some small pieces of carpet that I use right in fromt of amps on the floor. You may be getting some cancelation fro reflections off the floor. you could also try to cover the amp and mic with a packing blanket. This will eliminate the whole room. Some ppeople swear by getting the amp off te floor.

[Henrik]

I suggest you try the ideas that have been brought forward here, but I'd also like to add the possibility that there may be some psychology spooking here. I'm a bass player myself, and I'm never happy with the bass sound I get on my own band's recordings. As in - never.

Nobody else complains, but I hate my bass sound. Could a similar effect be a LEEETLE bit of the problem for you?

Just a thought.

Best,
Henrik

[warhead]

I'm new to the world of Reamp-ing, and love it. It's nice to record a direct track of guitar to play back through the amp later and tweak to taste.

War

[chap]

If you like the sound in the room then the problem has to be in the signal path. It seems like you have good mics and mic pres so that leaves the converters and a good clock. You could start with a good clock since you'll need one sooner or later
or go straight to great converters. My choice would be Apogees but there are plenty of converters that will sound better than the Digi box.
You'll get better and tighter lows and less harsh highs.
You'll also have more time for playing and experimenting because things will sound better.
best,
chap