Mic Tubes! Pre Tubes! - can i have too much tube??

[ABGen]

just bought a Pendulum MDP1 on GS secondhand - thanks Paul.

have a NTK and am trying out a U195 over the weekend and will see how it sounds with my voice. considering buying a high end boutique vocal mic - and have been looking at the E251C as the top option regardless of price over and above the Gefell M990 and the HCL Faust - however, now i'm wondering...

and hoping for some of the high end super slutz to chime in here to help...

can you ever have too much / enough tube?

Would running a E251C into the MDP1 be TUBE overkill or ?

thx

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by ABGen

can you ever have too much / enough tube?
Would running a E251C into the MDP1 be TUBE overkill

personally i don't think so...
it should sound fantastic:

great mic + great preamp = great sound (if the instrument is great )



cheers.
~j.d.

[ABGen]

would you consider it worth an extra $2K to up the ante from the u195 to the e251c?

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by ABGen

would you consider it worth an extra $2K to up the ante from the u195 to the e251c?

well i have only used the ELUX251, but the e251c is supposed to be nearly identical to the ELUX251 but cardioid-only and with a few other additions.

the ELUX251 blew me away. that is a stellar microphone.
if the e251c sounds nearly as good as the ELUX251, i think it is worth the $3k.

there were some listening tests done at AES last year using the ELUX and the Mercury M72s preamps that impressed nearly everyone that was there (at the Dangerous Music/Soundelux/Mercury party).......


i wouldn't trash the U195 though; it's a great microphone...
but if you have the money, the e251c looks like a great thing to me:




~j.d.

[ABGen]

Originally Posted by jdjustice

well i have only used the ELUX251, but the e251c is supposed to be nearly identical to the ELUX251 but cardioid-only and with a few other additions.

the ELUX251 blew me away. that is a stellar microphone.
if the e251c sounds nearly as good as the ELUX251, i think it is worth the $3k.

there were some listening tests done at AES last year using the ELUX and the Mercury M72s preamps that impressed nearly everyone that was there (at the Dangerous Music/Soundelux/Mercury party).......


i wouldn't trash the U195 though; it's a great microphone...
but if you have the money, the e251c looks like a great thing to me!!


~j.d.

Thank you - that helps

[vernier]

can you ever have too much / enough tube?

I'd maybe use a non-tube pre as an effect, if I owned one.

[ABGen]

ok - what do you think of this -

run a xlr splitter from the E251C and / or U195 and / or NTK into both the MDP1 and the FF800 mic pre - record simultaneously playing with the levels -

will the splitter diminish the signal at all coming into either pre? if yes to this - is there any way to do this without diminishing the signal?

[softwareguy]

I'm not sure what purpose running through two pres would serve. And I'm quite sure that Vernier meant his answer rather ironically, since he is a dyed in the wool true tube believer.

As for your original question, I would have to say, if you like the sound of the Beatles, the Beach Boys, early Stones, Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole, etc., etc., etc., as well as innumerable modern vocal chains, it's pretty hard to argue with the sound of a high-quality, all-tube signal path.

Listen to it yourself, but I would expect your combination to sound stunning.

[RCM - Ronan]

I would not worry about too much tube. People talk about "tube sound" but I am not sure what that is. In my mic pre collection I reach for my A Designs tube pre when I want something clean and open.

[ABGen]

thanks - i will try it out - picking up the mdp1 this morn and the e251c should be here soon

[HEADROOM]

Originally Posted by ABGen

just bought a Pendulum MDP1 on GS secondhand - thanks Paul.

have a NTK and am trying out a U195 over the weekend and will see how it sounds with my voice. considering buying a high end boutique vocal mic - and have been looking at the E251C as the top option regardless of price over and above the Gefell M990 and the HCL Faust - however, now i'm wondering...

and hoping for some of the high end super slutz to chime in here to help...

can you ever have too much / enough tube?

Would running a E251C into the MDP1 be TUBE overkill or ?

thx

For vocals tubes are great.

For some applications (like a snare drum) you actually CAN have too many tubes in a chain. IMO..

It is warm and thick but sometimes you get more punch using less tubes.

I basically record with V76 an V72s but for parts of the drums I prefer Sitral (solid state pres)

tubetubetube is not always the answer to all questions....


www.nickoosterhuis.com

[woomanmoomin]

Glad to see I'm not the only tube geek/freak out there.
Nothing else to report, really. Except that voltage-starved low-end tube gear is a waste of freaking time and money IMHO.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by ABGen

can you ever have too much / enough tube?

Plenty of great records were made on all-tube gear.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by ABGen

can you ever have too much / enough tube?

No. If it sounds good, it is good.


And I agree with your assessment of the 251/M72s. It was the right combination for that singer.

[ABGen]

Originally Posted by HEADROOM

For vocals tubes are great.

For some applications (like a snare drum) you actually CAN have too many tubes in a chain. IMO..

It is warm and thick but sometimes you get more punch using less tubes.

I basically record with V76 an V72s but for parts of the drums I prefer Sitral (solid state pres)

tubetubetube is not always the answer to all questions....


www.nickoosterhuis.com

so...in general fast attack = less tube and more clinical / solid state pre's

[ronzie]

ABgen said:

can you ever have too much / enough tube?

NO.

Nor can I ever have too much/enough bube.


Ron Allaire, Skyline

[ABGen]

boob tube?

[ronzie]

Low brow on hi end.

Ron Allaire, Skyline

[ABGen]

[woomanmoomin]

Tubes can do all sorts of stuff. Depends on the gear, the tubes, the particular level of distortion/compression, etc. A lot of this is flexible, according to the wishes of the musician/engineer. Stick some Siemens ECC83 pre-amp valves and Siemens EL34s in a guitar amp that will accommodate them, bias the amp to match the tube levels up, and you can get a notoriously clear, spanky response due to lots of fast, dynamic compression. Stick some warm-sounding old Sylvania 12AX7s or even some lower-gain 5751s in instead of the Siemens ECC83s and it's already a very different tone. And a Fender Twin is probably never going to sound like a Mesa-Boogie Triple Rectifier or whatever. Completely depends. Same basically goes for rack gear, tube mics, etc.

A mic like a K2, for instance, doesn't have that much of a thick valvey tone even though there's a 6922 valve inside. Mind you, you can play around with valve selection and fine-tune the mic's characteristics. Anyway, from what I've read, something like an ADK A-48 probably has a much more 'vintage' tubey tone.

Whatever. The main thing is, more tube does not mean less impact. Otherwise rock 'n' roll would probably never have happened.

[bcgood]

I'm currently on a tube craze. I'm recording a song right now with every track going through tubes, it sounds really nice to me. I think I'm going to stick with this all tube chain for awhile.

bcgood

[ABGen]

Originally Posted by woomanmoomin

Tubes can do all sorts of stuff. Depends on the gear, the tubes, the particular level of distortion/compression, etc. A lot of this is flexible, according to the wishes of the musician/engineer. Stick some Siemens ECC83 pre-amp valves and Siemens EL34s in a guitar amp that will accommodate them, bias the amp to match the tube levels up, and you can get a notoriously clear, spanky response due to lots of fast, dynamic compression. Stick some warm-sounding old Sylvania 12AX7s or even some lower-gain 5751s in instead of the Siemens ECC83s and it's already a very different tone. And a Fender Twin is probably never going to sound like a Mesa-Boogie Triple Rectifier or whatever. Completely depends. Same basically goes for rack gear, tube mics, etc.

A mic like a K2, for instance, doesn't have that much of a thick valvey tone even though there's a 6922 valve inside. Mind you, you can play around with valve selection and fine-tune the mic's characteristics. Anyway, from what I've read, something like an ADK A-48 probably has a much more 'vintage' tubey tone.

Whatever. The main thing is, more tube does not mean less impact. Otherwise rock 'n' roll would probably never have happened.

Thanks -

the mdp1 input tubes are (2) ECC83 & 12AX7A's, the output tubes are (2) 6922 / 6DJ8

plugged into the MDP1 my NTK sounds incredible compared to how it sounded through the mic pre on the FF800 - especially riding the mdp1 gain and attenuating through the output - its sweeter / richer / creamier - next i'll try out the U195 and look forward to the e251c.

anyone on here have the MDP1 - version B or C? if yes - do you prefer using the custom wound transormers for vocals?

[woomanmoomin]

Sorry, I'm new, I keep making a hash of this thing. Anyway, you can have lots of fun investigating different ECC83 types (12AX7s, 5751s, 12AT7s, 12AY7s, etc., etc.) and 6922 types (7308, 6DJ8, etc.) to your heart's content. You have to careful with some choices in sensitive pres and so on, but there are a lot of different 6922 and ECC83 types around anyway. (I collect them.) You can have fun if you feel like it. A Siemens E88CC (bright spank) in the output position would probably sound a lot different from a Bugle Boy 6DJ8 (aaaambientttt).

[ABGen]

Originally Posted by woomanmoomin

Sorry, I'm new, I keep making a hash of this thing. Anyway, you can have lots of fun investigating different ECC83 types (12AX7s, 5751s, 12AT7s, 12AY7s, etc., etc.) and 6922 types (7308, 6DJ8, etc.) to your heart's content. You have to careful with some choices in sensitive pres and so on, but there are a lot of different 6922 and ECC83 types around anyway. (I collect them.) You can have fun if you feel like it. A Siemens E88CC (bright spank) in the output position would probably sound a lot different from a Bugle Boy 6DJ8 (aaaambientttt).

thanks mahn

[vernier]

I'm currently on a tube craze. I'm recording a song right now with every track going through tubes, it sounds really nice to me.

Duh! ..tubes only got replaced in studios because of the convenience of not having to test and replace them.

[beachhunt]

Originally Posted by vernier

I'd maybe use a non-tube pre as an effect, if I owned one.

Lol... Maybe someone will come up with a virtual transistor box for the all-tube sort. "Dial in your desired degree of edge!"

[vernier]

Theres plenty of tube gear to go around.

[ABGen]

Originally Posted by vernier

Theres plenty of tube gear to go around.

yep - just got my e251c this morn - looking forward to testing it out - AB with the U195 and the NTK