What's up with King's X? - Page 2

**mwagener** · 1st February 2007, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingDaddyO

Hi Michael,

Thanks so much for sharing these sessions, as well as your awesome expertise throughout these forums.

I see what looks like a fully populated SCA CH01 chassis under the Tonelux & JM130
racks. If you manage to get any spare time

, I would really appreciate if you could describe the modules in use, and what will be running through them?

For the drum tracking as follows:
1 A12 FLOOR 2 TOP (SM 57)
2 A12 FLOOR 1 TOP (SM 57)
3 A12 RACK TOM TOP (SM 57)
4 A12 not used at this time
5 N72 KICK INSIDE (Shure SM91)
6 N72 SNARE TOP 1 (Octava 219) multed into the SPL Transient Designer
7 C84 NOT USED RIGHT NOW
8 C84 SNARE BOTTOM (Octava 219)

Later during overdubs the A12s will be used for some of the guitar mics and the N72 will see the Soundelux 251 for lead vocals.

The blue homemade box on top of the Randall rack contains 4 API cards, the oldest being serial number 009.
Used as follows
1 not used at this time
2 RACK TOM BOTTOM (Sennheiser 504)
3 FLOOR 1 BOTTOM (Sennheiser 504)
4 FLOOR 2 BOTTOM (Sennheiser 504)

The top and bottom mics of each tom are going through the Sony DMX converters and are mixed together to one track each. The bottom mics are polarity reversed and have a high end roll off (low pass filter) from about 4k up.

The rest of the kit:
Kick outside (SubKick) 30 dB pad, VIPRE #1 - 300 OHM, slow rise time

Snare top 2 - GrooveTubes Convertible - old GrooveTubes MP-1 mic pre in overdrive then into a Distressor, fast attack, fast release about 3 dB of gain reduction

HiHat - AKG 451 w/10dB pad - John Hardy M1

Ride cymbal - Schoeps - John Hardy M1, modified w/15 dB pad

Cymbals - Mojave Audio MA 200 - then either GreatRiver MP2NV and EQ2NV (about 3 dB shelv 4.7k and up, high pass filter at 82Hz) or JM130 mic pre, I tried both and both sound great on Overheads. On this session I have the MA200s looking into the kit, which gives a fairly wide picture of the cymbals but the snare and toms are sitting smack in the middle. This setup was a first time test and it works.

Room stereo our good friend "Fritz" in the back of the room (or better in front of the kit) about 10 feet away and about 5 feet from the front wall.

Room mono - Shure 51, 3 inches from the floor, 5 feet in front of the kick, Chandler LTD-1, high end rolled off above 3K - Chandler EMI TG1 on limit and stunn.

TopOfKit - Royer R-122V - Chandler Germanium, germanium drive on about 3 o clock.

I think thats it for the drums.

As you can see the RM20 has a single Royer R-121 on it, which of course goes through the Chandler TG2, then the CraneSong HEDD, with the TAPE and PENTODE knobs on about 5.

That's it for the tracking setup. We have 11 songs recorded by now, 3 more to go. The mood is great and the only thing we will be doing different on the next album is that we will record during the Summer...

**mwagener** · 1st February 2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blast9

Ty used to comment about how noisy the electronics were on those... is it something you can put up with or has he had them modded?

***

Saw a Tele elite the other day in Denmark street London (no tthe cheapest place to buy gear) Man, it was like £900

They are very noisy, but with the editing capabilities of todays DAWs it is no problem to keep the tracks clean if so desired. When he plays you can hardly hear the noise. It's all Rock 'N Roll, right?

**mwagener** · 1st February 2007, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warhead

You just made my day.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you have planned for it?

War

Most likely lead vocals and backing vocals

KingDaddyO · 1st February 2007, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwagener

For the drum tracking as follows:
1 A12 FLOOR 2 TOP (SM 57)
2 A12 FLOOR 1 TOP (SM 57)
3 A12 RACK TOM TOP (SM 57)
4 A12 not used at this time
5 N72 KICK INSIDE (Shure SM91)
6 N72 SNARE TOP 1 (Octava 219) multed into the SPL Transient Designer
7 C84 NOT USED RIGHT NOW
8 C84 SNARE BOTTOM (Octava 219)

Later during overdubs the A12s will be used for some of the guitar mics and the N72 will see the Soundelux 251 for lead vocals.

The blue homemade box on top of the Randall rack contains 4 API cards, the oldest being serial number 009.
Used as follows
1 not used at this time
2 RACK TOM BOTTOM (Sennheiser 504)
3 FLOOR 1 BOTTOM (Sennheiser 504)
4 FLOOR 2 BOTTOM (Sennheiser 504)

The top and bottom mics of each tom are going through the Sony DMX converters and are mixed together to one track each. The bottom mics are polarity reversed and have a high end roll off (low pass filter) from about 4k up.

The rest of the kit:
Kick outside (SubKick) 30 dB pad, VIPRE #1 - 300 OHM, slow rise time

Snare top 2 - GrooveTubes Convertible - old GrooveTubes MP-1 mic pre in overdrive then into a Distressor, fast attack, fast release about 3 dB of gain reduction

HiHat - AKG 451 w/10dB pad - John Hardy M1

Ride cymbal - Schoeps - John Hardy M1, modified w/15 dB pad

Cymbals - Mojave Audio MA 200 - then either GreatRiver MP2NV and EQ2NV (about 3 dB shelv 4.7k and up, high pass filter at 82Hz) or JM130 mic pre, I tried both and both sound great on Overheads. On this session I have the MA200s looking into the kit, which gives a fairly wide picture of the cymbals but the snare and toms are sitting smack in the middle. This setup was a first time test and it works.

Room stereo our good friend "Fritz" in the back of the room (or better in front of the kit) about 10 feet away and about 5 feet from the front wall.

Room mono - Shure 51, 3 inches from the floor, 5 feet in front of the kick, Chandler LTD-1, high end rolled off above 3K - Chandler EMI TG1 on limit and stunn.

TopOfKit - Royer R-122V - Chandler Germanium, germanium drive on about 3 o clock.

I think thats it for the drums.

As you can see the RM20 has a single Royer R-121 on it, which of course goes through the Chandler TG2, then the CraneSong HEDD, with the TAPE and PENTODE knobs on about 5.

That's it for the tracking setup. We have 11 songs recorded by now, 3 more to go. The mood is great and the only thing we will be doing different on the next album is that we will record during the Summer...

Completely outrageous ... thank you thank you thank you!! Looking forward to the release date. YOU ROCK Michael!

ramjet · 1st February 2007, 07:15 AM

oh thank you so far micahel wagener but more more more please.

i LOVE these threads.

thanks so much and can't wait for more instalments

CasadeBomba · 1st February 2007, 04:15 PM

King's X is the reason I play guitar......Best live band I have every seen.

And the "Dogman" Album Done by Brendan O"brien was and still is to me the measuring Stick for Modern Rock Records.

I will be tuning in daily!

Ric

ultralownoise · 1st February 2007, 04:17 PM

I'm suprised no one else who attended the workshop has posted yet. Maybe they are still recovering from the overload of all the gear & the thrill of watching the masters of their craft at work.

I attended the workshop and was blown away at how cool Michael is and how willing he is to share everything he does with anyone who asks.

King's X sounded fantastic, and their new material is killer. I hear roots from their earlier material, but they have also forged ahead into new territory. I can't wait to hear the finished product!!

The guys in the band were really cool and didn't seem to mind too much having an audience (I think dUg might actually *prefer* it).

Just to comment on some of the gear they were using, the Randall RM20 sounded fantastic. For this part of the tracking, Ty was only using this 15W 1x12" combo and I can hardly believe how huge it sounded. He was getting the classic Ty "chunks" that sounded like it was coming out of a couple of 4x12's. As Michael said, they will most certainly reamp & layer as necessary through the bigger cabs, but the sounds coming out of this amp were certainly more than useable.

dUg's rig also sounded great. I have wondered how he got that awesome grinding tone for over 10 years now, and finally was able to see his rig firsthand. The "B" gear was the bud of a few jokes in the studio, but as Michael would say (something to the effect), if it sounds right it is right, and it sounded RIGHT.

The drums sounded absolutely killer! Jerry is as solid as they come and he beat the crap out of the drums. Everyone in the room was impressed with how well the drums were coming out. They were cranking out the drum tracks (3-4 songs a day!), and once they got the song form down, it would only take a take or two to nail it. Unbelievable...

I can't wait for the final product, I think this is going to be one of King's X's best!

Rock on...
Jim

GPl · 1st February 2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taturana

i use a 1984 sunburst stratocaster elite as my main axe for more than 20 years , it's an awesome guitar... i bought it brand new in 1984.... i wish i could buy a couple more... i found some on ebay, but they're are really hard to find... BTW it's the only gear i have listed in my GS profile... i love that guitar!

Funny, I was just looking at one I really wanted, 1983 but it has a Kahler Trem added to it, not original. Probably gonna get it

Looking forward to another Kings X recording thread Michael

Thanks man.

**mwagener** · 3rd February 2007, 01:53 PM

well, the guys decided to write one more song on the spot in the studio last night, so we are going to track the final drums for that today. That makes it 15 songs total, King's X fans will get their moneys worth

Then it's time to get the drums outta there and set up for guitar, vocals and other overdubs (percussion etc.). I'll post some pictures of the setup on Monday.

tedcrop · 4th February 2007, 07:31 PM

A little off topic I know. Abd btw I am exited that King's x is again working with MW.

But does anyone remember anything about the kick drum in Ear Candy? I like it. When I listen to the CD my ears are drawn to it.

Blast9 · 4th February 2007, 07:39 PM

yeah, awesome sound! "sometimes" seems to have some sort of very short delay that emphasises the kik's attack. You can hears the skin and the beater.

grevan · 4th February 2007, 09:12 PM

Michael, thank you for these King's X threads! They are fascinating!

Prickstein · 9th February 2007, 09:06 AM

Any updates yet Michael?

**mwagener** · 9th February 2007, 03:05 PM

We're tracking bass at the moment, 4 more songs to go, should be done by the weekend. Then we will set up for overdubs (guitars, lead vocals, percussion, harmonies etc. at which time I will have some more photos of the mic setups.

So far we have been doing one guitar track per song (using the little Randall RM20 with a XTC module) in order to be able to better judge the bass tuning (bass by itself is always hard to judge for me) and then the bass itself. I am recording 3 tracks for the bass:
1 DI with the MW-1, using the 30dB boost output to go into the amps and the balanced line out for recording the DI into Nuendo
2 mid/high range via the Ashdown amp and a Randall 4X12 guitar cab (Vintage 30s) through the Randall mic eliminator DI out (no mic)
3 Low end through the Behringer amp DI out (which sounds surprisingly fat and tight

)

The relationship of mid range and low end changes on a per song basis, so I keep those tracks separate.

Ty just had a Redeemer put into one of his Yamaha guitars which made it sound a lot better. His comment was: "The Redeemer turned a marginally sounding guitar into a fully usable instrument"

crypticglobe · 9th February 2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allencollins

bottom line is is kings X is the best fuc*ing band ever

Holy cow! This is the first thing I think you have ever said that I agree with. And not only do I agree... but I agree 100,000%!! lol. Nobody rocks harder than Kings-X.

smoore98 · 9th February 2007, 11:17 PM

Ditto!!

grevan · 13th February 2007, 11:22 PM

Please update us, Michael!

Jay Kahrs · 14th February 2007, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwagener

Ty just had a Redeemer put into one of his Yamaha guitars which made it sound a lot better. His comment was: "The Redeemer turned a marginally sounding guitar into a fully usable instrument"

What's a "Redeemer"?

**mwagener** · 14th February 2007, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

What's a "Redeemer"?

http://www.creationaudiolabs.com/redeemer.html

**mwagener** · 14th February 2007, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grevan

Please update us, Michael!

Will do. We had a couple of very long days, but I'll post some more pix in the next few days.

We finished two songs guitars and lead vocals and they came out amazing. The guitar tones we are getting are just sick, there are a lot of smiling faces around

Today we also did "crowd vocals" on one of the songs. Everybody (including studio guests) stood around Fritz in a circle and we changed positions of the singers for each stereo track. We did 14 tracks total, came out B-I-G.

Jay Kahrs · 14th February 2007, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwagener

http://www.creationaudiolabs.com/redeemer.html

So it's an active preamp thingy that works with regular old passive guitar electronics?!

Kool. I've always dug the idea of active pickups but never the tone...

What was the tonal change you heard outta Ty's rig before/after the "Redeemer" was installed?

BTW, it's freakin' AWESOME to hear that Ty's playing his Strat Elite's again...he has such a distinctive tone on the first few Kings X records, before he switched to 'buckers and gained out amps.

cortisol · 14th February 2007, 01:38 PM

Hi Michael

just a quick thanks for mentioning about the backing vocal tracking. I think it is a halmark of the King's X sound. They are up there with CSN and The Beatles in my book in that regard.

They are a killer 3 piece band. They rock and you do too Michael.

Peace,
cortisol

**mwagener** · 14th February 2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

So it's an active preamp thingy that works with regular old passive guitar electronics?!

Kool. I've always dug the idea of active pickups but never the tone...

What was the tonal change you heard outta Ty's rig before/after the "Redeemer" was installed?

BTW, it's freakin' AWESOME to hear that Ty's playing his Strat Elite's again...he has such a distinctive tone on the first few Kings X records, before he switched to 'buckers and gained out amps.

It's not really a preamp, but it changes the impedance of your guitar output. The Redeemer input impedance (pickup side) is around 3 million ohm (a Marshall is about 1 million ohm), so your pickup doesn't even think it's hooked up to anything. The Redeemer output is around 37 ohm, so the input of your amp is very happy as well. It makes the guitar sound more natural, brighter and more open. You can also now hook up your guitar direct to a converter without loosing level or sound. When you turn down the level pot, normally you loose brightness, with the Redeemer it's even all the way down, no tone loss. Ty loves that feature, because he uses the volume pot a lot for different levels of distortion during one song.

The Elite is being used on a lot of tracks and it sounds awesome. I am having to deal a bit with the noise problem, but I feel the tone is much more important, so you probably will hear some noise on the finished album

Blast9 · 14th February 2007, 02:32 PM

The noise of KX fans going nuts!

redddog · 14th February 2007, 05:41 PM

Wow, do you use the Seventh Circle pres on drums pretty exclusively?

More about that, if you could.

old_skul · 14th February 2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwagener

The Elite is being used on a lot of tracks and it sounds awesome. I am having to deal a bit with the noise problem, but I feel the tone is much more important, so you probably will hear some noise on the finished album

Michael, didn't Ty do anything to his Elites to help with the noise problem? I'm running into the same issue with mine, but I've resorted to the stand-exactly-right-there-and-point-the-headstock-right-here method to control the RF interference and self-noise.

I'm considering the copper foil treatment, but that didn't do much for one of my other Strats, and this guitar is too pristine to mess with.

Jay Kahrs · 14th February 2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwagener

When you turn down the level pot, normally you loose brightness, with the Redeemer it's even all the way down, no tone loss. Ty loves that feature, because he uses the volume pot a lot for different levels of distortion during one song.

You could also add a resistor (.010 I think???) across the legs of the volume pot to retain top end & keep the tone from going to mud as it's rolled back...sounds like the Redeemer is doing MUCH more then that though, I might just have to check one out!

Quote:

The Elite is being used on a lot of tracks and it sounds awesome. I am having to deal a bit with the noise problem, but I feel the tone is much more important, so you probably will hear some noise on the finished album

Dude, it's just some noise! Rock & Roll baby!

YEAH!!!

munch81 · 15th February 2007, 01:31 PM

Michael, did you end up laying down any 12 string bass tracks with dUg?
If so, did you do anything differently than the 4 string tracking?

1st February 2007, 07:15 AM	#35
ramjet Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: ayr, north queensland, australia Posts: 376	oh thank you so far micahel wagener but more more more please. i LOVE these threads. thanks so much and can't wait for more instalments __________________ cheers David Luscombe (aka ramjet) ITS NOT THE KNOBS ON THE CONSOLE THAT MATTER, ITS THE KNOB BEHIND IT!!!!!! Music is the space between the notes ~~Claude Debussy~~ Check out my band if you want... http://www.myspace.com/jasperbandaus

3rd February 2007, 01:53 PM	#39
mwagener High End Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Music City USA Posts: 2,680	well, the guys decided to write one more song on the spot in the studio last night, so we are going to track the final drums for that today. That makes it 15 songs total, King's X fans will get their moneys worth Then it's time to get the drums outta there and set up for guitar, vocals and other overdubs (percussion etc.). I'll post some pictures of the setup on Monday. __________________ Michael Wagener http://www.michaelwagener.com Production workshops at WireWorld Studio

4th February 2007, 07:31 PM	#40
tedcrop Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 293	Kick drum sound A little off topic I know. Abd btw I am exited that King's x is again working with MW. But does anyone remember anything about the kick drum in Ear Candy? I like it. When I listen to the CD my ears are drawn to it.

4th February 2007, 07:39 PM	#41
Blast9 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,519	yeah, awesome sound! "sometimes" seems to have some sort of very short delay that emphasises the kik's attack. You can hears the skin and the beater. __________________ :: my band is called protoangel . My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top):: Jap Tele with fat frets (rude and fat):: . My amp: 1973 Hiwatt DR504 ... Latest purchases Kel Audio HM-2d TC Electronic Nova System, Chameleon Labs 7602 Knock-down price Digi 002 + PTLE (ex-Logic guy)

9th February 2007, 09:06 AM	#43
Prickstein Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 438	Any updates yet Michael? __________________ Every day I learn something new (with a little help from my slutz), and that keeps me going. www.myspace.com/rickhollis

1st February 2007, 04:15 PM	#36
CasadeBomba Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Morganton,NC Posts: 19	King's X is the reason I play guitar......Best live band I have every seen. And the "Dogman" Album Done by Brendan O"brien was and still is to me the measuring Stick for Modern Rock Records. I will be tuning in daily! Ric

1st February 2007, 04:17 PM	#37
ultralownoise Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1	I'm suprised no one else who attended the workshop has posted yet. Maybe they are still recovering from the overload of all the gear & the thrill of watching the masters of their craft at work. I attended the workshop and was blown away at how cool Michael is and how willing he is to share everything he does with anyone who asks. King's X sounded fantastic, and their new material is killer. I hear roots from their earlier material, but they have also forged ahead into new territory. I can't wait to hear the finished product!! The guys in the band were really cool and didn't seem to mind too much having an audience (I think dUg might actually prefer it). Just to comment on some of the gear they were using, the Randall RM20 sounded fantastic. For this part of the tracking, Ty was only using this 15W 1x12" combo and I can hardly believe how huge it sounded. He was getting the classic Ty "chunks" that sounded like it was coming out of a couple of 4x12's. As Michael said, they will most certainly reamp & layer as necessary through the bigger cabs, but the sounds coming out of this amp were certainly more than useable. dUg's rig also sounded great. I have wondered how he got that awesome grinding tone for over 10 years now, and finally was able to see his rig firsthand. The "B" gear was the bud of a few jokes in the studio, but as Michael would say (something to the effect), if it sounds right it is right, and it sounded RIGHT. The drums sounded absolutely killer! Jerry is as solid as they come and he beat the crap out of the drums. Everyone in the room was impressed with how well the drums were coming out. They were cranking out the drum tracks (3-4 songs a day!), and once they got the song form down, it would only take a take or two to nail it. Unbelievable... I can't wait for the final product, I think this is going to be one of King's X's best! Rock on... Jim

4th February 2007, 09:12 PM	#42
grevan Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 62	Michael, thank you for these King's X threads! They are fascinating!

9th February 2007, 03:05 PM	#44
mwagener High End Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Music City USA Posts: 2,680	We're tracking bass at the moment, 4 more songs to go, should be done by the weekend. Then we will set up for overdubs (guitars, lead vocals, percussion, harmonies etc. at which time I will have some more photos of the mic setups. So far we have been doing one guitar track per song (using the little Randall RM20 with a XTC module) in order to be able to better judge the bass tuning (bass by itself is always hard to judge for me) and then the bass itself. I am recording 3 tracks for the bass: 1 DI with the MW-1, using the 30dB boost output to go into the amps and the balanced line out for recording the DI into Nuendo 2 mid/high range via the Ashdown amp and a Randall 4X12 guitar cab (Vintage 30s) through the Randall mic eliminator DI out (no mic) 3 Low end through the Behringer amp DI out (which sounds surprisingly fat and tight ) The relationship of mid range and low end changes on a per song basis, so I keep those tracks separate. Ty just had a Redeemer put into one of his Yamaha guitars which made it sound a lot better. His comment was: "The Redeemer turned a marginally sounding guitar into a fully usable instrument" __________________ Michael Wagener http://www.michaelwagener.com Production workshops at WireWorld Studio

9th February 2007, 11:17 PM	#46
smoore98 Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 254	Ditto!!

13th February 2007, 11:22 PM	#47
grevan Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 62	Please update us, Michael!

14th February 2007, 01:38 PM	#52
cortisol Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 249	Hi Michael just a quick thanks for mentioning about the backing vocal tracking. I think it is a halmark of the King's X sound. They are up there with CSN and The Beatles in my book in that regard. They are a killer 3 piece band. They rock and you do too Michael. Peace, cortisol

14th February 2007, 02:32 PM	#54
Blast9 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,519	The noise of KX fans going nuts! __________________ :: my band is called protoangel . My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top):: Jap Tele with fat frets (rude and fat):: . My amp: 1973 Hiwatt DR504 ... Latest purchases Kel Audio HM-2d TC Electronic Nova System, Chameleon Labs 7602 Knock-down price Digi 002 + PTLE (ex-Logic guy)

14th February 2007, 05:41 PM	#55
redddog Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,271	Wow, do you use the Seventh Circle pres on drums pretty exclusively? More about that, if you could.

15th February 2007, 01:31 PM	#58
munch81 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 1	12 String bass Michael, did you end up laying down any 12 string bass tracks with dUg? If so, did you do anything differently than the 4 string tracking?