Fatso

basement · 18th January 2004, 05:30 AM

Read a lot about the Fatso. Here's my question: I'm sort of a newbie. I have a nice home studio and I'm currently recording a fairly aggressive Christian rock band. I have some nice mics (M149, Royer R121, etc.) nice pres (Voxbox, Focusrite, UA 6176, Aphex), and I use a LOT of the BombFactory compressor plugs (1176, LA2, Fairchild).

I'm going for a nice energized-edgy-but-poppy-glued-together sound. I've been experimenting with a dbx Quantum (Rockin' CD preset) plus tweaks for mastering. I know some have knocked it, but for me it adds something I can't get with anything else. I've played around with tape saturation emulation just enough to think that that might be the one thing I'm missing to sort of glue everything together the way my ears like it. I'm on PT on a PC, so there don't appear to be any good plug alternatives. My question: Could the Fatso slapped across all tracks be the ticket?

And, as a newbie, I have one other question. What the heck is a "two buss." I see references to it all over the place, even tried to do a little Internet research, but I couldn't find anything.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!!!

nlc201 · 18th January 2004, 06:17 AM

"2 Buss" = the stereo mix buss. When someone refers to say strapping a compressor accross the 2 buss, they mean compressing the whole mix. And speaking of which, I'm not sure if the Fatso is a unit most revered on the "2 buss". If you need some glue, I would recommend the Alan Smart C2 or the SSL G series compressor. They tend to do what you described, especially in rock mixes. Other good "2 buss" rock compressors would be the Drawmer 1969 (Mercenary Edition of course!) and the API 2500.

As far as the Fatso goes, I've always used them on individual instruments rather than the stereo mix. But that doesen't mean it won't work. If you like the sound of what the DBX is doing, then why not just use that? The fatso is awesome but like all Tape Simulation it has its own vibe which you may or may not like. On projects I've used a fatso on, I've found it more useful for tracking rather than mixing.

Best advice would be to try one out and return it if it doesen't do what you like.

zimv20 · 18th January 2004, 07:01 AM

more options for 2-buss compression: both Manley and Pendulum offer a vari-mu, Cranesong has the STC-8, or you could use a pair of their Trakkers

of course, none of these do you any good if you're Bouncing To Disk...

davemc · 18th January 2004, 09:21 AM

I rarely use teh fatso for 2buss.. Although it might be ok. I would look at the Smart, mu, api if I was you.. I find my 1969 can soften things a little..

basement · 18th January 2004, 03:02 PM

I AM bouncing to disk. So does that mean that all of the suggestions (e.g., the Alan Smart C2) won't work for me?? Wouldn't they add warmth even if you bounce to disk? I do go back in to PT after the Quantum and then through the Waves L2 as the last step (usually).

I use CD Architect and it's on my PT host computer. Are you suggesting that the best/only way would be to get an external burner and go right from the Quantum to, e.g., the C2, then to the burner?

THANKS FOR THE HELP!!

AAsa · 18th January 2004, 05:38 PM

Quote:

of course, none of these do you any good if you're Bouncing To Disk...

Quote:

I AM bouncing to disk. So does that mean that all of the suggestions (e.g., the Alan Smart C2) won't work for me??

You can bounce to disk thru analog. Create an analog insert on your master fader.

Sometimes I'll use the Fatso on the drum buss and usually have the C2 on the Mix.

zimv20 · 18th January 2004, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AAsa
You can bounce to disk thru analog. Create an analog insert on your master fader.

sorry, i should have been more precise -- it doesn't matter if you don't go back out to analog.

guittarzzan · 18th January 2004, 06:53 PM

I had a Fatso. I sold a Fatso. Does it make your guitar and other tracks sound like they were recorded to tape?...maybe a tiny bit. Does it do a $2000 improvement on the sound of the track?...nope! imo.
I'm on PTHD on XP and also would like to see some of the Mcdsp, Duy, Cranesong, GML Labs software come our way, but after a little poking at those companies, I think it will be at least a year before we see anything for pc from any of these companies.
I've read tons of positive on the Cranesong Hedd both for it's sound, it's converters and it's flexibility. I'd suggest you check it out. If I had the money, that would be my next purchase.

steve

CV7 · 18th January 2004, 09:21 PM

With the Crane Song HEDD, how would it hook up to my PT Mix?
is there an I/O card in the HEDD?

guittarzzan · 18th January 2004, 09:41 PM

...well, as I don't yet own one, I'd say go check out the cs website. I'm guessing you'd use it's digital i/o to connect to your pt system, or if you're summing analog, you could run your stereo mix through it then use it's a/d to whatever you're recording to. I'm probably not the right person for this...I just know it's a very well-received unit and I see very few of them up for sale so that says a lot. When engineers who have access to lots of gear and they say they run their mix through the Hedd, that, to me says a lot about it's quality.

cheers,
Steve

CV7 · 19th January 2004, 12:56 AM

Anyone know how the HEDD well? How it gets A/D and D/A in and out of a PT Rig?

nlc201 · 19th January 2004, 03:19 AM

The HEDD has SPDIF and AES digital I/O. If you want to use it accross the mix bus and go back into Pro Tools, you hook up a set of stereo digital outs off the PT interface that go into the HEDD. You run the HEDD back into the same numbered Pro Tools inputs (IE, if you run out interface A 5-6, you run back into Interface A 5-6). On your master fader, setup and insert on the appropriate PT stereo I/O. Your signal should run out to the HEDD, then back in to PT almost as if the HEDD were a plug in. What kind of PT rig do you have? I can be more specific if you still need help. Also, make sure the HEDD and PT are being clocked properly. Unless you have an outboard clock like an Aardsync or a Big Ben, I would clock PT off the HEDD 192 word clock.

word

Drumsound · 19th January 2004, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by davemc
.. I find my 1969 can soften things a little..

I find that too. Sometimes it's a good thing. I also find if I insert it early in the mix process, I can mix to it and keep the high end where it should be. If I put it in too late in the game, I'm chasing my tail, which I hat to do.

NathanEldred · 19th January 2004, 07:50 AM

Tape + Analog board = rock and roll. You can mimic the "superficial" qualities of tape with devices like the Fatso, but if the rest of the fidelity isn't there (in particular with the conversion quality), then it's a moot effort. Good conversion with at a minimum a decent analog summing surface will get you a good portion of the way there. I still have yet to hear a production "in the box" that satisfies me. My instincts tell me that it's not just technique either.

mml · 19th January 2004, 07:15 PM

Here's a novel concept. Buy a tape machine and put your stereo mix on it. You can get great decks really cheap right now, and it does make a difference. Then, if that wets your appetite, get into analog summing, as that does make a huge difference as well. As far as "glue", the tape will do that for you. The analog summing will improve the depth and space in your recording, but won't necessarily glue your stuff together. 2-buss compression is also the "glue" that you're looking for.

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18th January 2004, 05:30 AM	#1
basement Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 79	Fatso Read a lot about the Fatso. Here's my question: I'm sort of a newbie. I have a nice home studio and I'm currently recording a fairly aggressive Christian rock band. I have some nice mics (M149, Royer R121, etc.) nice pres (Voxbox, Focusrite, UA 6176, Aphex), and I use a LOT of the BombFactory compressor plugs (1176, LA2, Fairchild). I'm going for a nice energized-edgy-but-poppy-glued-together sound. I've been experimenting with a dbx Quantum (Rockin' CD preset) plus tweaks for mastering. I know some have knocked it, but for me it adds something I can't get with anything else. I've played around with tape saturation emulation just enough to think that that might be the one thing I'm missing to sort of glue everything together the way my ears like it. I'm on PT on a PC, so there don't appear to be any good plug alternatives. My question: Could the Fatso slapped across all tracks be the ticket? And, as a newbie, I have one other question. What the heck is a "two buss." I see references to it all over the place, even tried to do a little Internet research, but I couldn't find anything. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!!!

18th January 2004, 09:21 AM	#4
davemc Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Melb, Australia Posts: 1,029	I rarely use teh fatso for 2buss.. Although it might be ok. I would look at the Smart, mu, api if I was you.. I find my 1969 can soften things a little.. __________________ Bye Ya Dave INDENT

19th January 2004, 07:50 AM	#14
NathanEldred Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Coast Central Florida Posts: 5,454	Tape + Analog board = rock and roll. You can mimic the "superficial" qualities of tape with devices like the Fatso, but if the rest of the fidelity isn't there (in particular with the conversion quality), then it's a moot effort. Good conversion with at a minimum a decent analog summing surface will get you a good portion of the way there. I still have yet to hear a production "in the box" that satisfies me. My instincts tell me that it's not just technique either. __________________ Nathan Eldred Atlas Pro Audio- Boutique Gear, Consultation, Sales, & Distibution Home of the Atlas Juggernaut Preamp & 500 Series Revolver Rack USA Distributor for Buzz Audio Exclusive Worldwide Distributor for Atlas Pro Audio Gear, Old School Audio (OSA), and Burgin McDaniel Design Atlas Recording Studios, Inc. Recording/Mixing/Mastering Services

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18th January 2004, 06:17 AM	#2
nlc201 Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 458	"2 Buss" = the stereo mix buss. When someone refers to say strapping a compressor accross the 2 buss, they mean compressing the whole mix. And speaking of which, I'm not sure if the Fatso is a unit most revered on the "2 buss". If you need some glue, I would recommend the Alan Smart C2 or the SSL G series compressor. They tend to do what you described, especially in rock mixes. Other good "2 buss" rock compressors would be the Drawmer 1969 (Mercenary Edition of course!) and the API 2500. As far as the Fatso goes, I've always used them on individual instruments rather than the stereo mix. But that doesen't mean it won't work. If you like the sound of what the DBX is doing, then why not just use that? The fatso is awesome but like all Tape Simulation it has its own vibe which you may or may not like. On projects I've used a fatso on, I've found it more useful for tracking rather than mixing. Best advice would be to try one out and return it if it doesen't do what you like.

18th January 2004, 07:01 AM	#3
zimv20 Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,460	more options for 2-buss compression: both Manley and Pendulum offer a vari-mu, Cranesong has the STC-8, or you could use a pair of their Trakkers of course, none of these do you any good if you're Bouncing To Disk...

18th January 2004, 03:02 PM	#5
basement Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 79	I AM bouncing to disk. So does that mean that all of the suggestions (e.g., the Alan Smart C2) won't work for me?? Wouldn't they add warmth even if you bounce to disk? I do go back in to PT after the Quantum and then through the Waves L2 as the last step (usually). I use CD Architect and it's on my PT host computer. Are you suggesting that the best/only way would be to get an external burner and go right from the Quantum to, e.g., the C2, then to the burner? THANKS FOR THE HELP!!

18th January 2004, 06:53 PM	#8
guittarzzan Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, Or Posts: 605	I had a Fatso. I sold a Fatso. Does it make your guitar and other tracks sound like they were recorded to tape?...maybe a tiny bit. Does it do a $2000 improvement on the sound of the track?...nope! imo. I'm on PTHD on XP and also would like to see some of the Mcdsp, Duy, Cranesong, GML Labs software come our way, but after a little poking at those companies, I think it will be at least a year before we see anything for pc from any of these companies. I've read tons of positive on the Cranesong Hedd both for it's sound, it's converters and it's flexibility. I'd suggest you check it out. If I had the money, that would be my next purchase. steve

18th January 2004, 09:21 PM	#9
CV7 Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 213	With the Crane Song HEDD, how would it hook up to my PT Mix? is there an I/O card in the HEDD?

18th January 2004, 09:41 PM	#10
guittarzzan Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, Or Posts: 605	...well, as I don't yet own one, I'd say go check out the cs website. I'm guessing you'd use it's digital i/o to connect to your pt system, or if you're summing analog, you could run your stereo mix through it then use it's a/d to whatever you're recording to. I'm probably not the right person for this...I just know it's a very well-received unit and I see very few of them up for sale so that says a lot. When engineers who have access to lots of gear and they say they run their mix through the Hedd, that, to me says a lot about it's quality. cheers, Steve

19th January 2004, 12:56 AM	#11
CV7 Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 213	Anyone know how the HEDD well? How it gets A/D and D/A in and out of a PT Rig?

19th January 2004, 03:19 AM	#12
nlc201 Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 458	The HEDD has SPDIF and AES digital I/O. If you want to use it accross the mix bus and go back into Pro Tools, you hook up a set of stereo digital outs off the PT interface that go into the HEDD. You run the HEDD back into the same numbered Pro Tools inputs (IE, if you run out interface A 5-6, you run back into Interface A 5-6). On your master fader, setup and insert on the appropriate PT stereo I/O. Your signal should run out to the HEDD, then back in to PT almost as if the HEDD were a plug in. What kind of PT rig do you have? I can be more specific if you still need help. Also, make sure the HEDD and PT are being clocked properly. Unless you have an outboard clock like an Aardsync or a Big Ben, I would clock PT off the HEDD 192 word clock. word

19th January 2004, 07:15 PM	#15
mml Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: LA Posts: 144	Here's a novel concept. Buy a tape machine and put your stereo mix on it. You can get great decks really cheap right now, and it does make a difference. Then, if that wets your appetite, get into analog summing, as that does make a huge difference as well. As far as "glue", the tape will do that for you. The analog summing will improve the depth and space in your recording, but won't necessarily glue your stuff together. 2-buss compression is also the "glue" that you're looking for.