Can someone describe the sound of the amek 9098i ?

[pw8888]

Compare to the 4K,9k,or VR or 88R.....?

Thanks
Phil

[djui5]

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showp...8&postcount=27

[pw8888]

I understand the link but people are also saying than SSL 4K is sounding "good" ..??!!???
What about the low end ... Are we talking about a VR kind of sound or more like a 9K ?

Thanks guys

Phil

[Jack P]

If you are seriously thinking of buying this console you should really check out the studios that currently use them, find out what records were made (have a listen), & fly out and book a day at the studio & mix a track you have mixed before, it's only the sane thing to do especially with the money involved.

[e-cue]

Originally Posted by pw8888

Compare to the 4K,9k,or VR or 88R.....?

Thanks
Phil

Different beast altogether. In some places it sits somewhere between the 88R and the 9K. It's extremely clean with very low noise and lots of detail. It has great clarity, but isn't instantly as aggressive as the SSL or Neve/Ams-Neve lines. This always seemed odd to me because so many metal and grimey rap records (namely the Big Blue Meanie and Wu Tang's studio) were done on the 9098i. It sounds like the perfect board for adult contempo or muzak. I can hear slipperman's coffee mug hit the floor right now. The virtual dynamics on it are useless to me. Many plug in's sound better. Unless you have a LOT of dynamic outboard, make sure you put that in your budget consideration. That also means recalls and documentation will take longer. The automation is pretty straight forward. I'd be a little nervous finding tech support as with any discontinued line, but I've never had a tech issue on it. The mic pre's are excellent. The EQ's are again very clean and take some pretty aggressive knob twisting compared to most high end consoles out there to really heard them working with as much bite.

The single space 9098 does NOT sound like the console to me. I would not base your opinion of the console on the pre/eq. If you run a sound motel type studio and have a lot of outside engineers coming in, especially for mixing, you'll have more problems booking this room than places with Neve or SSL's, but that's not saying it's not the perfect console for you if you stay "in house".

Then again, Full Sail has one so, ehm, ahem, as you were...

[pw8888]

Thanks for the reply e-cue !
I am mixing 99% of the time.About 250 days a year.I have a 4k right now ,but I am not a big fan of the 9k sound....
The Room is private.I will rent it to friends...
I would like to upgrade one of these day to something a bit better.I already changed the monitoring of my 4k by using the Avocet,recapped PS,VCA,and group modules,but still the desk is not really "open and Large".It works well on Hip hop records,rock and electronic music.But....
I have enough eq and dynamics to do all that external.
Does the desk sound a bit like a VR ?(I am not crazy about those-I use to have one)
thanks
Phil

[The Byre]

The 4-band eq is just the best I have ever used. The mic pre is perfect. The line inputs are a bit dull, when compared to the mic pres. The Virtual dynamics takes getting used to, but once you are used to it, is far better than most give credit for. The automation is not to my taste and I find the filing system somewhat convoluted. The desk is very, very quiet. I have never played with an 88R, but the 9098i is just the best desk I have ever tried.

[e-cue]

Originally Posted by pw8888

Does the desk sound a bit like a VR ?(I am not crazy about those-I use to have one)
thanks
Phil

Hmmm, sortah, but not exactly. It's a big softer and even cleaner. For me, and most of the people I know frequent the desk, it's not what you'd first expect from a Rupert design. When I think of Neve's stuff- I think of a beefy transformer sound. This one sounds more like a clean transformer kinda sound, which surprised me (there's an xformer on every output stage, every insert send, etc). I think this board typically affects the sound less and it more transparent and almost passive sounding. Class a up the wazoo.

Fly over to Big Blue Meanie and try to book a week. In that time, you should know how it plays to or against strengths and weakness for you.

[Jim Williams]

I don't care for their transformers. Bill Whitlock over at Jensen could probably rip them to pieces, but I don't need the test results to tell me what I'm already hearing, a band pass filter.

Might be great for lesser acts, but a world class musician would be filtered and that's not good.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I don't care for their transformers. Bill Whitlock over at Jensen could probably rip them to pieces, but I don't need the test results to tell me what I'm already hearing, a band pass filter.

Might be great for lesser acts, but a world class musician would be filtered and that's not good.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

I'm not quite sure what you are listening to, but the 9098i does not have any input transformers.

But I am sure that if you were to contact Mr Langley and Mr Neve, they would be deeply grateful for any design tips you could give them!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by pw8888

Thanks for the reply e-cue !
I am mixing 99% of the time.About 250 days a year.I have a 4k right now ,but I am not a big fan of the 9k sound....
The Room is private.I will rent it to friends...
I would like to upgrade one of these day to something a bit better.I already changed the monitoring of my 4k by using the Avocet,recapped PS,VCA,and group modules,but still the desk is not really "open and Large".It works well on Hip hop records,rock and electronic music.But....
I have enough eq and dynamics to do all that external.
Does the desk sound a bit like a VR ?(I am not crazy about those-I use to have one)
thanks
Phil

If you don't like the sound of 9K than you probably won't dig the sound of the 9098i either. One thing about the console is that it has lots of headroom and sometimes it feels too laid back because it so open sounding.

If you don't feel your SSL is "open and large enough" i would look elsewhere. There is a point of diminishing returns and if you are there with your SSL than the problems could lie elsewhere.

[pw8888]

Hi Thrill,
Can you explain yourself ? I don't get it (english not my first language).
What do mean by diminishing return ?
When I wrote not open enough...I mean it seems to be "stopped" after 14k-16K or something....If you know what I mean.
This is not a "BIG" deal with urban music but when you mix some jazz or acoustic song it is (at least for me)
I don't go trough the SSL with my Kick and Bass.
Thanks for your reply

Phil

[djui5]

Phil,
I agree with Q, you need to book some time on one and see if you like the sound. I have no idea what Jim Williams is talking about with the band pass thing, but I can say this is IMO the best sounding console in existence from a sonic perspective.

With that being said, if your loosing above 14-15K on an SSL 9K, you have other problems. It's not the console at that point as the freq range of the 9J/K are way beyond 20K.

[pw8888]

no sorry , loosing on my 4K (and every 4k I tried).
No prob with 9K.
9K is more a problem of being "too clean".A bit sterile.And I hate this console when it reach the saturation point....

[djui5]

ahhhh, now that makes sense

I think you'd love the 9098i, personally

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by pw8888

Hi Thrill,
Can you explain yourself ? I don't get it (english not my first language).
What do mean by diminishing return ?


Phil

Phil,

By diminishing return i meant you can tear and mod the hell out of a 4K but there comes a point where it will work against you...mainly when it starts to sound less like a 4K(which is a good sound if you ask me and is what its intended for) and something else.

If this is the case then maybe a different console is what you need or maybe look else where(studio wiring,grounding,recapping power supply, don't put anything on the mix buss, acoustics or ?).

Especially if putting Kick and bass through it is an issue.

[Slipperman]

I love the 9098i.

Ron St. Germain used to come over to use mine, and then he got his own: http://www.theshed.us/equipment.html

He has another one he uses on the West Coast: http://www.vintageking.com/site/files/germain.htm

Lucky b*astard.

Ron and I are under the impression it's the greatest desk ever made.


Go figure.

SM.

[pw8888]

Thanks Thrill....
I understand 100% what you mean.
I like the sound of it but when mixing acoustic stuff that's an other story.The 9k would work but is a bit sterile.
When I do a mix on my 4k,the result tanslate very good outside the studio.It's sound great on radio and TV .I suppose acoustic is OK.I am complaining here about this last last bit where things could be better.Thanks for your advice.I should try this 9098i to see if I like it.Anyway I haven't see one for sale yet....Anybody ?

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by e-cue

The virtual dynamics on it are useless to me. Many plug in's sound better. Unless you have a LOT of dynamic outboard, make sure you put that in your budget consideration. I'd be a little nervous finding tech support as with any discontinued line, but I've never had a tech issue on it.

Originally Posted by The Byre

The Virtual dynamics takes getting used to, but once you are used to it, is far better than most give credit for. The automation is not to my taste and I find the filing system somewhat convoluted.

True, VD takes some time to get used to. I've never used a 9098i, but on the Rembrandt, I use them all the time.

At least in supertrue 3.6, (9098i has better/newer software) you should not take what you see on the meters/knobs for granted (GR etc). Just use your ears. Tools like SuperGate for example work like a charm (It even has a nice little Transient designer-ish function called Peak), LFC function is helpful in many cases as well etc... Compressors are very, very decent.

You can't compare plugs to VD. VD will behave fully like Analog VCA based units, that they are.

IMHO they are more versatile than the 4K dynamics, but that's just me.

Recalls are lightning fast in Supertrue. Takes me 10-15 minutes these days to recall the whole console (Rembrandt 56ch).

I've been in need of some Tech support lately for a small issue, it took a while but there are indeed qualified techs for AMEK desks around. Don't worry too much about that. Try and find one close to you (maybe MegaAudio can help you, used to be AMEK consoles official dealer for GER and CH).

I'd love to try a 9098i...

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by pw8888

no sorry , loosing on my 4K (and every 4k I tried).
No prob with 9K.
9K is more a problem of being "too clean".A bit sterile.And I hate this console when it reach the saturation point....

This is because of lot's of dark Roederstein bipolar coupling capacitors. These beasts do suck the air out of music. I remember once I replaced them in a 4kG+ master and all of a sudden the owner started to hear bell trees and triangles on the 2 track playback.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by The Byre

I'm not quite sure what you are listening to, but the 9098i does not have any input transformers.

But I am sure that if you were to contact Mr Langley and Mr Neve, they would be deeply grateful for any design tips you could give them!

I've already given Mr. Langley some design tips in private conversations, thank you. Rupert is still mad at me for the scathing but accurate review of the disasterous AMEK Mozart console I did for REP magazine in the early 90's.

Yes, not the mic pre input, (which can use better transistors and opamps) but the outputs use them. Although the bandwidth measured ok on the Audio Precision, the slop and phase response was not very good. I'm sure Bill Whitlock could also rip these a new one if he ran them through his comtran software analysis program. These transformers sound funny to me, that usually means they won't test too well either. The 5534/33079 opamps also sound like squat to me, Hello Rupert, there's some better stuff out there.

Then again, I'm the first to say that lot's of recordists like a certain amount and flavor of dirt with their music.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[dave-G]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

This is because of lot's of dark Roederstein bipolar coupling capacitors. These beasts do suck the air out of music. I remember once I replaced them in a 4kG+ master and all of a sudden the owner started to hear bell trees and triangles on the 2 track playback.

If you did something to my console that caused me to hear bell trees and triangles, I'd beat the crap out of you.

(wink)
-dave

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Then again, I'm the first to say that lot's of recordists like a certain amount and flavor of dirt with their music.

I thought you seemed to like a certain amount and flavor of dirt in your mouth.

My mistake.

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Anderson

I thought you seemed to like a certain amount and flavor of dirt in your mouth.

My mistake.

That too, I find the volcanic pumice of the eastern Sierra's to be my liking. It does mess with the suspension of my Jeep though. The rust colored red rocks of Utah also taste pretty good when running down 6000 feet of altitude on a mountain bike. Brian Head rocks!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I've already given Mr. Langley some design tips in private conversations, thank you.

I am sure that he was deeply, deeply grateful and no doubt incorporated your suggestions into the 9098i to create one of the most technically and sonically perfect mixing desks every to have been built.

That reminds me of a conversation I once had with a friend of mine who owned a studio and also built mixing desks and a visiting engineer. This engineer knew absolutely everything better and let us know just how much better his ideas for a studio were than ours. Also he went to great lengths to tell my friend how he could improve his desk designs. He let him know in no uncertain manner just which caps to use and which transformers were better than others. He also told him how he was using the wrong wire, plugs, pots, faders, you name it and he could suggest an improvement.

In the end, my friend threw his arse out and told him "Come back and tell me how much you know, when you have built your own studio and designed and sold your own desks!"

I also once was party to a conversation between producer Micky Most and some A&R girl who kept telling him how his way of recording was all wrong and how he should just use MIDI and samples and put all the money into marketing.

He too lost his patience and told her "If you know so bloody much, where's your Lear Jet? Mine's down at City Airport, but where's yours?"

[e-cue]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I don't care for their transformers. Bill Whitlock over at Jensen could probably rip them to pieces, but I don't need the test results to tell me what I'm already hearing, a band pass filter.

Might be great for lesser acts, but a world class musician would be filtered and that's not good.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Could you explain this a little deeper? You did 'hear' this particular console, right? I could understand the filter comment on some of the other Amek stuff, but the 9098i console?

I thought it had a range from 2hertz to 200k. It seemed to be wide open to me and didn't oscillate.

[pw8888]

e-cue ,
Did you do a mix on it ? just curious....
What are you using usually ?

Thanks
Phil

[e-cue]

Originally Posted by pw8888

e-cue ,
Did you do a mix on it ? just curious....
What are you using usually ?

Thanks
Phil

I usually perfer to mix on a 9K or ITB. I worked on the one at Glenwood Place for several months before they replaced it with a Neve. I grew to like it more over time. The last record I tracked on it (at least the majority of the record was tracked on it) did over 9 mill worldwide, so it can't be all that bad for a 'world class musician'.

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by The Byre

I am sure that he was deeply, deeply grateful and no doubt incorporated your suggestions into the 9098i to create one of the most technically and sonically perfect mixing desks every to have been built.

That reminds me of a conversation I once had with a friend of mine who owned a studio and also built mixing desks and a visiting engineer. This engineer knew absolutely everything better and let us know just how much better his ideas for a studio were than ours. Also he went to great lengths to tell my friend how he could improve his desk designs. He let him know in no uncertain manner just which caps to use and which transformers were better than others. He also told him how he was using the wrong wire, plugs, pots, faders, you name it and he could suggest an improvement.

In the end, my friend threw his arse out and told him "Come back and tell me how much you know, when you have built your own studio and designed and sold your own desks!"

I also once was party to a conversation between producer Micky Most and some A&R girl who kept telling him how his way of recording was all wrong and how he should just use MIDI and samples and put all the money into marketing.

He too lost his patience and told her "If you know so bloody much, where's your Lear Jet? Mine's down at City Airport, but where's yours?"

Just ignore old Jim "I can solve world poverty with a faster op-amp" Williams when it comes to AMEK products.

If you search his past post content it is VERY easy to deduce the real skinny.

Total grudge driven commentary.

End of story.

Back to the 9098i. My esteemed colleague e-cue is ONCE AGAIN hitting "La Pipa" with great vigor when he intimates that you can't/shouldn't make heavy rock records on it with ease.


I submit the following with great sadness and deep regret:

He owns the worlds largest collection of DBX compression devices.


And...


Unlike the rest of us...


HE IS NOT USING THEM TO PROP UP THE FURNACE.

He is...


in fact...



Passing AUDIO through them.



















The defense rests.



HOHOHO.

XOXOXO

Slippy

[e-cue]

Originally Posted by slipperman

Back to the 9098i. My esteemed colleague e-cue is ONCE AGAIN hitting "La Pipa" with great vigor when he intimates that you can't/shouldn't make heavy rock records on it with ease.

Hold the phone there. What I said was that I was surprised so many metal and grimey rap records were done on it. Do you think "clean" when you hear Wu Tang Clan records? I think a board with Sans Amp on every channel would be better for a group like that. Do you think low noise when you listen to Bad Brains (I doubt St Germain worked with them on the amek, I'm just saying)? The board never seemed to match up to me, although the results speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by slipperman

I submit the following with great sadness and deep regret:

He owns the worlds largest collection of DBX compression devices.


And...


Unlike the rest of us...


HE IS NOT USING THEM TO PROP UP THE FURNACE.

He is...


in fact...



Passing AUDIO through them.



















The defense rests.



HOHOHO.

XOXOXO

Slippy

Ironically, two of said devices were modified by Jim Williams @ Audio Upgrades. Btw, I had one of your staff members plant a load in one of your cigars. One day you shall find it, but until that day I recommend smoking away from the desks.


Your VD are neato, and have some nice functions, but the only one I found myself using (rarely) was the autopanner. DBX160XT pwn Amek VD controlled vca turd Comp. People use 160xt's all the time to this day.

Amek 9098i's on the other hand, well, Full Sail owns 3. So yeah Slip, you're ripped and ready for the next herd of Mboxers. Jenga!