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#1
21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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Pro commercial release cost

Does anyone know roughly how much it costs for big bands like Deftones, A Prefect Circle, Incubus etc. to get an album produced (recorded, mixed, produced and mastered) these days?
I think Terry Date and Andy Wallace were involved in either the mixing or producing of theses bands at some point.

Im just trying to compare the price of our album getting produced to the big boys.

Cheers,
Eck
#2
21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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$200, maybe $300! You were warned there was no money in the music business, now you know!

Couldn't resist!
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21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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Could be anything- but most information is anecdotal (ie quite unreliable).

A lot of money is wasted- a friend who is in a big band (which I'll not be naming) has commented that as much money can be spent on the first video as is spent on the album.

Devin Townsend has said he can make an album for about $12,000 where a Fear Factory album can cost as much as $100,000.

Food Fighters got an advance of several millions for Colour and the Shape, but the album cost very little to record as it was done mostly in Dave Grohl's Basement.

The cost of recording is relatively low compared to videos, promotion, radio station payola and such.

My friend mentioned above has said several times that his band makes much more money from selling t-shirts at their gigs. The selling of records actually loses money.
This is a pretty big band.
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#4
21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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Thanks all.
I had a figure of around £100,000-£200,000 in my head.
I beleive this amount of money is not needed to make an album. I think its rediculous, especially now adays in the digital age where someone can make a decent studio for a few thousand dollars.
All thats needed (for rock music) is an NT2 and a make shift vocal booth (carpet in a corner of a room, and a duvet over the carpet). A pop sheild made from a coathanger and a pair of tights. Some decent cables, say a 12 input soundcard with good A/D conversion, 12 decent pre amps, some good mics and mic stands. Recording software and plug-ins.
Thats about it!
Well cheap!
I suppose alot of the money goes to the pros who seem to feel the money they are making is justifiable because big record labels only trust big name producers/mixers/engineers. I suppose the whole recording industry is drying up a bit nowadays.

Our album cost us very cheap. $700 for a computer, $1000 for mics stands and cables. A mixing desk for like $200, mastering fees (prob around $2000).
Ok its not up to the standards of an Andy Wallace album, but its about 70% of the way their and it definetly cost ALOT less than 70% of the price for an Andy Wallace album!!

Heres a sample of an unmastered track from our album.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/song...songID=4902474

Some small tweaks have still to be made to the mix before it is considered finished.

Cheers,
Eck
#5
21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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The difference is the cost of the producer, engineers, mastering, the studio cost, equipment rental, lodgeing costs, techs to keep all instruments in top shape, freight fees to move all equipment, catering, etc., etc, etc. The cost adds up quick. In the world of dwindling CD sales this is sorta ridcules, but if the return is high enough to cover these costs, than so be it. As far as being able to make a great album with less than high end equipment, sure. You definitly can, but it is so much easier with high end equipment, in a pro studio enviroment. But it can be done on the cheap. Listened to the clip, good job. Sounds great, not my favorite style, but what I could hear sounded good.
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21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RusRant View Post
The difference is the cost of the producer, engineers, mastering, the studio cost, equipment rental, lodgeing costs, techs to keep all instruments in top shape, freight fees to move all equipment, catering, etc., etc, etc. The cost adds up quick. In the world of dwindling CD sales this is sorta ridcules, but if the return is high enough to cover these costs, than so be it. As far as being able to make a great album with less than high end equipment, sure. You definitly can, but it is so much easier with high end equipment, in a pro studio enviroment. But it can be done on the cheap. Listened to the clip, good job. Sounds great, not my favorite style, but what I could hear sounded good.
Yeah I guess I didnt think about all the hidden costs you mentioned.

Thanks for listening, and cheers for the compliment.
Eck
#7
21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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what about sushi costs? blue fin toro is mighty expensive... and the herbs?
#8
21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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For what its worth, the last major deal I was involved in was a freshman release. It was signed under universal/interscope...thats all I'll say to protect the inocent! I produced it along with Timbaland. Well, needless to say, I hated the direction they were trying to take my artist. I ended up pissing a couple people off at the label, it got shelved and never came out. The last I checked, the budget was right at 800k! Yes thats right....800K on a freshman release. Thats very rare but it tells how these labels just love to throw money away at the artists expense. Not something I'm proud of but to be honest, the artist and I are much happier it turned out this way. Don't ask why!

M
#9
21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitehouse View Post
For what its worth, the last major deal I was involved in was a freshman release. It was signed under universal/interscope...thats all I'll say to protect the inocent! I produced it along with Timbaland. Well, needless to say, I hated the direction they were trying to take my artist. I ended up pissing a couple people off at the label, it got shelved and never came out. The last I checked, the budget was right at 800k! Yes thats right....800K on a freshman release. Thats very rare but it tells how these labels just love to throw money away at the artists expense. Not something I'm proud of but to be honest, the artist and I are much happier it turned out this way. Don't ask why!

M
Waoh! Now thats crazy! An album costing 800K and not even being released.
Must have sounded like heaven!

Eck
#10
21st January 2007
Old 21st January 2007
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Quote:
what about sushi costs? blue fin toro is mighty expensive... and the herbs?
Yeah, can't forget the herbs. I guess I was trying to be PC. In that case lets ad in entertainment costs (strip clubs and 900 lines) and refreshments (liquor and herbs).
#11
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecktronic View Post

Ok its not up to the standards of an Andy Wallace album, but its about 70% of the way their and it definetly cost ALOT less than 70% of the price for an Andy Wallace album!!

Heres a sample of an unmastered track from our album.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/song...songID=4902474
I dont mean to be too snotty, but do you really feel that this sound of this track is 70% of the way to a major release mixed by Andy Wallace? I like the music but the recording sounds kind of like a boom box recording in a practice space.

If this was a track posted by a hobbiest so people could check out the music, I would not say anything, but since it was posted to challenge the need for the pros, it stands as a pretty shining example of why bands needs good gear and experienced people on the team. This is a good band but I could not imagine a radio station playing something that sounded like this.

Even beyond just the amateur engineering, a good producer could have done a lot with the band to get the performances and arrangements tighter to really let this good band shine.

This sounds like a demo that might help get a band singed but it does not sound like a commercial release.
#12
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecktronic View Post
Ok its not up to the standards of an Andy Wallace album, but its about 70% of the way their and it definetly cost ALOT less than 70% of the price for an Andy Wallace album!!
That doesn't sound like a 'major label' pro track at all. It sounds like a fairly well done amateur recording project. I don't want to bash you at all, and I'm not saying that the talent and material isn't there, but the production is not blowing my mind.

NOT THAT I CAN DO ANY BETTER!

halcyo
#13
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
and I'm not saying that the talent and material isn't there, but the production is not blowing my mind.
I gotta say there isn't a lot out there right now production wise that blowing my mind, most everything is generic as far as production goes. Not all, but most IMO.
#14
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondjames View Post
Food Fighters got an advance of several millions for Colour and the Shape, but the album cost very little to record as it was done mostly in Dave Grohl's Basement.
I thought they recorded Colour and the Shape
at GrandMaster Studios in Hollywood and
There is nothing left to Loose in Dave Grohl's basement.

Either way, it can be a lot of dough for a commercial release,

just ask Axl Rose . . .
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#15
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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I haven't listened to the clip yet (so don't worry, I'm not going to start bashing it), but I strongly believe the law of diminishing returns applies heavily to the recording/mixing process. In other words, 90% of the blood, sweat, tears, EXPERIENCE and TIME (the last two of which are things that can become rather costly) goes into bringing the record that last 5-10% that makes a difference between a great record and an expensive demo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecktronic View Post
Thanks all.
Our album cost us very cheap. $700 for a computer, $1000 for mics stands and cables. A mixing desk for like $200, mastering fees (prob around $2000).
Ok its not up to the standards of an Andy Wallace album, but its about 70% of the way their and it definetly cost ALOT less than 70% of the price for an Andy Wallace album!!

Heres a sample of an unmastered track from our album.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/song...songID=4902474

Some small tweaks have still to be made to the mix before it is considered finished.

Cheers,
Eck
#16
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecktronic View Post
Thanks all.
I had a figure of around £100,000-£200,000 in my head.
I beleive this amount of money is not needed to make an album. I think its rediculous, especially now adays in the digital age where someone can make a decent studio for a few thousand dollars.
All thats needed (for rock music) is an NT2 and a make shift vocal booth (carpet in a corner of a room, and a duvet over the carpet). A pop sheild made from a coathanger and a pair of tights. Some decent cables, say a 12 input soundcard with good A/D conversion, 12 decent pre amps, some good mics and mic stands. Recording software and plug-ins.
Thats about it!
Well cheap!
I suppose alot of the money goes to the pros who seem to feel the money they are making is justifiable because big record labels only trust big name producers/mixers/engineers. I suppose the whole recording industry is drying up a bit nowadays.

Our album cost us very cheap. $700 for a computer, $1000 for mics stands and cables. A mixing desk for like $200, mastering fees (prob around $2000).
Ok its not up to the standards of an Andy Wallace album, but its about 70% of the way their and it definetly cost ALOT less than 70% of the price for an Andy Wallace album!!

Heres a sample of an unmastered track from our album.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/song...songID=4902474

Some small tweaks have still to be made to the mix before it is considered finished.

Cheers,
Eck
That's simply wrong and even if it wasn't it's not easy to move from 70% to 75% or higher.

I'm not going to bother listing all the techincal aspect that you're overlooking, but what about the human value? What is the value that an engineer brings or a producer?

How much do you sell your album for, $1.20? That's what the material cost is? Make it a full $2 for the album and you'll recoup the mastering costs after about 3,000 CDs sold. Why charge for the song content? That's not worth anything. It didn't actually cost anything out of pocket to make.
#17
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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I think there has to be a happy medium in the middle somewhere. For instance, I produced a band (very reluctantly, they sucked) who were forwarded $100,000aust for album production, promotions and video clip. The $100,000 was spent, album has received national air time including live performances at nationwide industry events yet the band it still here 12months later absolutely gigging their arses off to earn some money because CD sales haven't recouped the $100,000 yet. Still getting national air time though
#18
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecktronic View Post
Does anyone know roughly how much it costs for big bands like Deftones, A Prefect Circle, Incubus etc. to get an album produced (recorded, mixed, produced and mastered) these days?
I think Terry Date and Andy Wallace were involved in either the mixing or producing of theses bands at some point.

Im just trying to compare the price of our album getting produced to the big boys.

Cheers,
Eck
Steve Albinis article from a few years back "The Problem With Music" list a whole recording budget (that includes everything from hookers to bananas for the drummer) you could have a look at.
#19
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyer Maker View Post
I dont mean to be too snotty, but do you really feel that this sound of this track is 70% of the way to a major release mixed by Andy Wallace? I like the music but the recording sounds kind of like a boom box recording in a practice space.

If this was a track posted by a hobbiest so people could check out the music, I would not say anything, but since it was posted to challenge the need for the pros, it stands as a pretty shining example of why bands needs good gear and experienced people on the team. This is a good band but I could not imagine a radio station playing something that sounded like this.

Even beyond just the amateur engineering, a good producer could have done a lot with the band to get the performances and arrangements tighter to really let this good band shine.

This sounds like a demo that might help get a band singed but it does not sound like a commercial release.
I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with you. THats a bit harsh saying " it sounds kind of like a boom box recording in a practice space."
And that it istn fit for radio play. I dont know what you are monitoring on but it cant be very accurate anyway.
Ive heard worse mixes released before im sure. And this is an old mix. The drum bus was muted on this mix, and the guitars are a bit harsh.

Eck
#20
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eide View Post
Steve Albinis article from a few years back "The Problem With Music" list a whole recording budget (that includes everything from hookers to bananas for the drummer) you could have a look at.
Cheers man.
Ill ahve a wee read of that.

Eck
#21
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
That's simply wrong and even if it wasn't it's not easy to move from 70% to 75% or higher.

I'm not going to bother listing all the techincal aspect that you're overlooking, but what about the human value? What is the value that an engineer brings or a producer?

How much do you sell your album for, $1.20? That's what the material cost is? Make it a full $2 for the album and you'll recoup the mastering costs after about 3,000 CDs sold. Why charge for the song content? That's not worth anything. It didn't actually cost anything out of pocket to make.
I know you said you werent going to but would you mind listing the tech aspects im overlooking. Im interested.
Eck
#22
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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One's gotta have the right tools

As i have never been a real pro musician or engineer, my experience with high end production is very limited. I have working experience with one of the top producers in my country. I have worked with high end gear like Neve, SSL, Studer Neumann, Fairchild etc. I also know the benefits of a nice studio environment. I have never had the opportunity to combine all three of them, but if the improvement on the results compared to working low end sums up, then the final results will reflect that the artist has been produced and recorded in the best possible way. Do you notice the difference i film production? I do and a low budget production can be as memorable and valuable 20 years after. But i don't think that you can make a fair comparison - ie 70% doesn't mean anything.
#23
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pramrod View Post
what about sushi costs? blue fin toro is mighty expensive... and the herbs?
That is so true. I have had many bands buy me large and expensive sushi meals. If your in the Burbank area I highly suggest Kuru Kuru...they have great spicy tuna rolls.
#24
22nd January 2007
Old 22nd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecktronic View Post
I know you said you werent going to but would you mind listing the tech aspects im overlooking. Im interested.
Eck
Yes. For me the list took 5-6 years to create. I could probably recall it all in a couple of 3-4 hour chunks.

I'll give you an example fo a few things - eletrical power conditioning, cables, room tuning (separate from acoustical treatment and design). I'm not even going to bother bringing up gear becuase it's too obvious.

Good all around fundamentals cost way more than a $700 I/ a computer and $2k worth of whatever else you listed.

Great songs are not dependant a moeny and gear, but great recordings of great songs are. There's no amount of skill that can overocome the limitations of gear and other fundamentals. A Fiat can't win the Indy 500 when driven by the best drive who ever lived. Maybe if everyone else crashed, but that's not winning, it's not losing.
#25
23rd January 2007
Old 23rd January 2007
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Hi Eck,

Well, you're sure kicking the bee hive here! Although I agree within certain limits to what you said, saying here that gear isnt that critical is like going to a green peace meeting and saying that we can live 70% as well in a destroyed environment. This is Gearslutz, remember?

Ok, now about that clip:

1- I've heard many official releases sounding worse.

2- The snare is prime in rock music. I'd like it punchier (use a compressor with slow attack?) AND louder. Use a limiter or ride the faders if some hits are too loud.

3- The toms need more body, they are almost only "attack" now.

4- Don't boost the overheads!

5- When the music intensity raises, both the drums and the voice are a little too lost. Ride those faders!

I'm surprised some slutz here didn't jump in yet, crying over how much a neve or a newmann would be soooo much better! I'm not surprised nobody really tried to help though.
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#26
23rd January 2007
Old 23rd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryguydrum@netsc View Post
I thought they recorded Colour and the Shape
at GrandMaster Studios in Hollywood and
There is nothing left to Loose in Dave Grohl's basement.
Yes, you are right... my mistake.
#27
23rd January 2007
Old 23rd January 2007
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Ecktronic, I like the songs you have up on your MySpace page. I sent you a P.M.
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#28
23rd January 2007
Old 23rd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Yes. For me the list took 5-6 years to create. I could probably recall it all in a couple of 3-4 hour chunks.

I'll give you an example fo a few things - eletrical power conditioning, cables, room tuning (separate from acoustical treatment and design). I'm not even going to bother bringing up gear becuase it's too obvious.

Good all around fundamentals cost way more than a $700 I/ a computer and $2k worth of whatever else you listed.

Great songs are not dependant a moeny and gear, but great recordings of great songs are. There's no amount of skill that can overocome the limitations of gear and other fundamentals. A Fiat can't win the Indy 500 when driven by the best drive who ever lived. Maybe if everyone else crashed, but that's not winning, it's not losing.
THanks man.
I still beleive that (not with the gear I listed) pro quality doesnt need to cost that much,
Eck
#29
23rd January 2007
Old 23rd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilRanger View Post
Hi Eck,

Well, you're sure kicking the bee hive here! Although I agree within certain limits to what you said, saying here that gear isnt that critical is like going to a green peace meeting and saying that we can live 70% as well in a destroyed environment. This is Gearslutz, remember?

Ok, now about that clip:

1- I've heard many official releases sounding worse.

2- The snare is prime in rock music. I'd like it punchier (use a compressor with slow attack?) AND louder. Use a limiter or ride the faders if some hits are too loud.

3- The toms need more body, they are almost only "attack" now.

4- Don't boost the overheads!

5- When the music intensity raises, both the drums and the voice are a little too lost. Ride those faders!

I'm surprised some slutz here didn't jump in yet, crying over how much a neve or a newmann would be soooo much better! I'm not surprised nobody really tried to help though.
Thanks for your advice man. I had the drum bus muted by accident in the clip I posted! So the snare is louder in the final mix. You are right about the snare hits. I need to work more on leveling them out, I did that with the kick. I liike bosting the OHs to give more energy, but I suppose they are maybe hiding the vox at times. Ill look into that.

Cheers,
Eck
#30
23rd January 2007
Old 23rd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondjames View Post
Yes, you are right... my mistake.
I know that Dave recorded the self titled Foo Fighters album in his basement, but then decided to go to a proper studio and get it recorded better. He also played all (most) of the parts for the whole album. Impressive!

Eck
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