PMC DB1sa or PMC TB2sa (and general woofer size question)

[mosrite]

I have decided to go PMC active and am attracted to the PMC DB1sa for price, weight and size. However, if the TB2sa was to give me significant performance increases then I could be very tempted by that.

Has anyone out there tried both against each other?

Is it really just bass reponse that differs and everything else is identical? (technically they seem to share the same amp, tweeter and everything else but woofer).

If listening to less bass heavy music that doesn't touch those lower Hz would there be any difference perceived at all? (my only worry is that the DB1 will simply sound a bit 'smaller.' Like a performance in miniature or something).

Depending on the above; PMC do offer a sub. Would the use of that later down the line basically 'cancel out' the differences inherent in the DB1 and it's smaller woofer?

Thanks guys, all opinions appreciated.

[lampmeister]

Hey Mosrite,
I can't really answer your questions, but I can tell you of my own experience. 3 months ago I upgraded from Fostex (forgotten the model no.) to passive PMC LB1's (classic, not signature) with a Bryston 2B LP Pro amp. Total revelation in every department; frequency range, overall clarity, stereo imaging, "depth", realism, etc, etc. I really can't imagine you'll be dissapointed with any of the PMC range, compared to anything else I've heard even close to the same price bracket they just seem to be reproducing the source material so much more easily and with less stress than traditional ported cabinets. Personally, I'm not such a fan of seperate subs - they're just 1 more thing that needs setting up properly and 1 more thing that can go wrong - I like to keep things as simple as possible.

Oh, and you can get some real eBay bargains from the hi-fi section. (Shhhhhhh!)

Peace,
Dave.

[Axiomhead]

I have TB1's and DB1's...Both Passive. They sound extremely similar, except for the low end.

With hella-EQing under 80hz, you can actually make them sound REALLY similar... but I don't recomend that route.

[jsteiger]

Hey Mosrite,

I really can't answer your question either but... I have also decided to "go PMC". I ordered the TB2S-a's about a month ago from VK. They don't stock them. Found out this past Friday that they will arrive in about 2 more weeks (hopefully!). I have been out of commision for about the past 6 years. My last monitors were Dyn BM15 passives with a Hafler. Thought about going BM6a but went with a "gut feeling" on the PMC's. Also had Dyn M1's before. Loved the Dyn's but I'm expecting the PMC's to really blow me away.

I myself never considered the smaller DB1's. Lower the better with the bottom end response. Even if your not working with "bass heavy" music, you will still have some sonic information down there.

Hope my "gut" was not wrong!

[audiomichael]

Funny that this thread just showed up. I just started looking at PMC's as an option for my new monitors. I'm looking at the TB+2 and the LB1 Signature. I've got a Bryston 4bsst right now so I'd get passives.

Anyone experienced the difference between the two?

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Depending on the above; PMC do offer a sub. Would the use of that later down the line basically 'cancel out' the differences inherent in the DB1 and it's smaller woofer?

I have not used DB1 so can't comment on that one. I do have TB2+ used with two Hsu STF-1 subwoofers. In my experience, matching monitors to subs does take a little time working with some reference material, but is not too hard to do. I would definitely recommend stereo subs though over a mono for mixing.

I was really surprised when I set these subs up with TB2. With most "normal" ported monitors and subwoofers, I could end up with the sub run up into the 60 Hz range at a pretty decent level. Not so with PMC and Hsu. I found the TB2 bass extension so outstanding and such a clean rolloff, that I had to keep notching the sub down. I ended up at 45 Hz with only a very low level. One advantage of the Hsu designs is the 4th order rolloff filter. Really makes it easy to dial in the composite sound, without adding any boom at the crossover.

So, the overall sound of PMC is easily preserved, and just the little extra at the lowest extreme for foot stomps, breath pops, synths, etc. is nice to have occasionally. I use a Central Station controller with separate output switches and trims, so that is very useful to be able to quickly toggle between monitor only / monitor+sub / sub only. Be sure to turn the sub attenuators all the way up, and match the levels to the monitors using the controller trims if you use a passive controller like the CS for this. Otherwise the level balances can change when switching the sub in and out.

The PMC subs are very expensive. I'm sure they are excellent, but probably not worth it to me for the music I work with, especially compared to the superb Hsu products. So... two STF-1 at $600 vs one PMC at $$$... I picked the two Hsu.

As for canceling out the differences between TB2 and DB1.... since the DB1 uses the same spectacular PMC crossover electronics and silk tweeter, I would expect it to give close to the same wonderful upper midrange clarity of the TB2. And that is the selling feature of these speakers for me. Adding the subs then would be a nice cost effective option IMO.

Originally Posted by vin-gear

My last monitors were Dyn BM15 passives with a Hafler. Thought about going BM6a but went with a "gut feeling" on the PMC's. Also had Dyn M1's before. Loved the Dyn's but I'm expecting the PMC's to really blow me away.

Yes. The PMC easily surpassed my BM15 when I had them side by side. I sold the BM15 and never looked back.

Steve

[mosrite]

Total revelation in every department; frequency range, overall clarity, stereo imaging, "depth", realism, etc, etc

Yeah I know that feeling. Actually I was running ATC SCm10 passives before (albeit through inappropriate amplification). I guess in some ways I am slightly worried that I am downgrading...(I cant ship the ATCs and amps to where I am now based for reasonable cash hence the PMC decision based on weight etc)

I have TB1's and DB1's...Both Passive. They sound extremely similar, except for the low end.

This is interesting. So in your opinion if you were listening to a fairly light bass recording of say a string quartet would you notice a difference in the 2 pairs?

[Axiomhead]

Originally Posted by mosrite

This is interesting. So in your opinion if you were listening to a fairly light bass recording of say a string quartet would you notice a difference in the 2 pairs?

You would notice... but you could mess with an eq a bit and close the gap for stuff that isn't bass intensive.

With that said, I do love my TB1's... My advice would be to audition both and buy the best you can afford.

[Beastie]

Yeah i have a pair of the db1sa and i love em to bits....

not compared em to the tb2 but i love em and they are perfect for my home studio setup...

the work setup is different although im thinking of gettin a pair for work as nearfield's...

will be mentioning it to the boss! lol

stereo imaging is amazing...

its like all speakers - you gotta get to know the sound....

when im referencing bass i check on adam's and genelec's where possible...(maybe TB2's might make me more confident on the lo end!?)

PMC are wonderful speakers! IMHO!

thumbsup

[dubrichie]

well, i've never heard the DB-1 but i have owned and used the TB-2 for over 4 years now.

i love them to bits. i feel that i would have to spend considerable cash to get anything better. they just sound so "natural" to me.

their transient response is exceptional, a large part of which i attribute to the ATL "loading" of the mid/bass drivers. dynamics are portrayed so well that you can really hear what a compressor is doing, which means that you can really use compression properly. the mixes that i had done before i got the PMCs were so obviously over-compressed when played back on them, it was shocking.

now, a couple of months ago i added a TLE-1 to my system. WOW. now i can't imagine living without it. i too use a Central Station monitor controller and when i turn off the sub the music sounds the same, albeit without the lower register information. when set up right it blends into the TB-2s amazingly well. you would never know it was there. amazing. possibly the best 2.5K i ever spent.

i thought that the TB-2 were a great speaker, and they are, but with the TLE-1 (properly calibrated), they are phenomenal. for me, they are the nigh-on perfect blend of "natural" and "analytical". Gennies? no thanks. Adams? no thanks. Focals? no thanks?

get that inte ye!

the DB-1 may actually sound better when combined with the TLE-1 since their mid drivers are asked to reproduce less bass, weigh less and are thus capable of better transient response. but, if you don't intend to add a sub for the forseeable future you should go for the TB-2. i did and i'm happy as a pig in shoot. so are my clients. happy days. thank you PMC.

[soundseeker]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

The PMC subs are very expensive. I'm sure they are excellent, but probably not worth it to me for the music I work with, especially compared to the superb Hsu products. So... two STF-1 at $600 vs one PMC at $$$... I picked the two Hsu.


Steve

Why should one need 2 subs???? I thought those frequencies cant be distinguished as left and right by the human ears. I ask because I really need a sub for my DB1s. And can anyone say how helpful the DB1 upgrade kit is.

[oreti]

There's a good chance you've already found this article while researching the PMC range, but just in case you haven't...

PMC TB2SA & DB1SA

Oreti

[Assistant]

i have the db1-sa and love them, like some others already said, the stereo imaging is really great!

my dealer told me to not get the tb2-sa, he said the db1-sa combined with the subwoofer is a better choice.
i never compared the speakers so i can´t comment on this.... but could make sense, since the speakers should sound almost the same except for the extended bass response on the tb2-sa.
the subwoofer is next on my list

[desotoslo]

can-o-worms dispute here on the value of using a sub on smaller speakers or getting bigger speakers with more extended range