Question about "auto delay compensation" in PT HD systems ???

[sage691]

Hi all,

I've read before in several threads that one of the BIG reasons that PT HD sounds better than old Mix systems is because of the "auto delay compensation" feature in HD. It seems that when using alot of plugins in Mix that the sound quality is compromised due to a lack of this feature.

Since I'm mixing OTB thru an analog console ( and still using a PT Mix rig), my question is this: Is this still an issue if you are not using the DAW for 2 track summing ??

In other words, if you have 48 analog outs from PT Mix routed into a high-end analog console, is the sound quality of the mixes still being compromised, and why ??

If anyone could explain this I would be very thankful!

I've heard before that sessions composed in PT Mix (when lots of plugs are involved) will sound much more 3 dimensional and BIG simply being loaded into a PT HD system; and it seems that the "auto delay compensation" feature in HD is the reason for this.

Also, is there a way to get around this in Mix ? For example, would you have to "print" whatever plug-in processing you are doing to seperate audio tracks, get rid of the plug-ins, and then offset these tracks by milliseconds to get around this ??

[minister]

each track is delayed a different amount depending on which plug-ins and how many are on each channel. if you have 3 plugs on track one and 5 plugs on track 2, then their delays will be different. so, at the sum on the board, they will be offset from their original timing.

if you don't use plug-ins, you're fine.

[sage691]

Originally Posted by minister

each track is delayed a different amount depending on which plug-ins and how many are on each channel. if you have 3 plugs on track one and 5 plugs on track 2, then their delays will be different. so, at the sum on the board, they will be offset from their original timing.

if you don't use plug-ins, you're fine.

Thanks for your explanation.

I rarely ever use plug-ins on the channel inserts. Instead, I always create a seperate aux channel and bus out the signal (pre-fader) from whatever channel the track is on. This is always how I use plug-in verbs, choruses, delays, etc.. I like to still have a dry track that I can EQ seperately and have seperate volume control.

So I guess this approach eliminates the delay issue in Mix systems ??

[minister]

Originally Posted by sage691

I like to still have a dry track that I can EQ seperately and have seperate volume control.

where do you EQ the individual tracks? on the board?

[Tim Farrant]

Originally Posted by minister

each track is delayed a different amount depending on which plug-ins and how many are on each channel. if you have 3 plugs on track one and 5 plugs on track 2, then their delays will be different. so, at the sum on the board, they will be offset from their original timing.

if you don't use plug-ins, you're fine.

Isn't the other way around? Tracks without plugins are delayed to match the latency of the tracks with plugins? That's how I understand it and also how I would expect it to work.

Tim.

[robot gigante]

It will make a difference if you're doing parallel processing ITB. If not, it might still make a difference if you're doing a lot of sends and bussing inside Pro Tools since it compensates for that too.

I guess summing OTB takes care of the summing mixer for the Mix system which is one reason IMHO why HD sounds better than Mix.

The old workaround for parallel processing in Mix was to use the Timeadjuster plugin to delay the unprocessed track. It didn't work very well, and even with latency compensation in HD sometimes parallel processing still doesn't work that well.

Anyway, do all your parallel processing with the console and not with plugins and I think Mix is just fine for working that way, unless you want HD for other reasons like more power or different plugins.

[minister]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

Isn't the other way around? Tracks without plugins are delayed to match the latency of the tracks with plugins? That's how I understand it and also how I would expect it to work.

Tim.

the way ADC works is all tracks are delayed the amount to meet the Longest Delay. THEN,. they are pulled back in time to be in sync. this is why it works in music and in post.

my point was, if there is no ADC, then different channels have different amounts of delay on them.

[sage691]

Originally Posted by minister

where do you EQ the individual tracks? on the board?

Yeah, I have 48 outs from PT (3X DA16X) routed into the console. With 32 (recapped) channels of Trident series 80 EQ, why would I bother using plug-ins for EQ ??

Same with compression. With 20+ channels of high end outboard compression, why bother using plugin comps ??