Mic pre - Distance from the source.

shauli · 13th January 2007

It is common knowledge that the closer the Pre to the source the cleaner the signal is.
I wanted to get your opinion from experience (especially those who build and lay cables in the studio) of what cable distance you start feeling the difference.
For those of you that placing the Pre’s in the live room, how do you mange to control it from the control room?

Crash · 13th January 2007

I can't imagine that the distances that would occur in a studio would make a bit of difference.

Bassace · 13th January 2007

the studio distances will not make any difference ...i ave used pres on stage before and then gone line in the mixer ..that makes a difference to my ears

Solunaris · 13th January 2007

a buddy of mine who's opinion I trust highly told me once that it's better to have short distances between the mic and preamp. I have my rack of pre's downstairs in the room with my drums, then I go line out of that into my snake, and into my control room. I've had my pre's in the control room before I moved them down with the drums. It is better.

Windtaken · 14th January 2007

This might be helpful. It talks about mics with/without transformers and about losing clarity with the length of the cable.
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=29

Blacky · 14th January 2007

Shortly as you can!
But isn't really the main thing. Take good cables and plugs!! Thats the way i think

shauli · 15th January 2007

Thanks for the input so far.
I am in a point that I got choices, and decisions to make. I am building a studio, the distance between the live room and the control room is less then 100 feet (30 meter). As role of thumb “Make the distance between the source and the pre as short as possible”, in the distance that I am dealing with is it make sense to go through the expense and design complication of arranging the pres to be in the live room or the benefits will be so minimal that I am wasting my time and money.

Crash · 15th January 2007

I am inclined to believe that the benefits are so minimal it won't matter. Look at other high end, no expense spared designed rooms. I think you will see that the pres live in the studio, not the cutting rooms.

pgk · 15th January 2007

pres in tracking room sent to control room line level
pres in control room sent to tracking room mic level and back

do it both ways and see if you can hear a difference before you commit. i'd be very surprised if you could'nt, because it ain't subtle at that distance. if you have the option of keeping your pres in the tracking room,(and using your console to monitor),running them back to the control room at line level is always the best situation. no question about it. it's one of those un-debatable things. imo anyone who would argue that point has simply never done it and is just looking to argue about something

ghellquist · 15th January 2007

Yep, keep them short, below 300 feet whenever possible (100 meters). Good condensor mics can run farther but dynamics start to suffer.

But this is actually all very simple to test for yourself. Set up two same type mics real close, give one a short cable and the other a long one and record both to one mono channel each. Ask someone else to cut the two recording as AAABAABBA or any other random sequence with at least ten tests. Now listen through them and value each change as better / same / worse. Set them up in a table and fill in your results (don´t look at the ordering before you have set your values on paper).
I fyou want to be absolutely certain, redo the test switching the cables (it might be the mics that differ).

-------------No worse -- No same -- No better
A->A
A->B
B->A
B->B

If you see a significant number of worse for the longer cable, repeat with a shorter cable until satisfied.

Gunnar

13th January 2007	#1
shauli Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Westchester, NY Posts: 94 Thread Starter 2 Reviews written	Mic pre - Distance from the source. It is common knowledge that the closer the Pre to the source the cleaner the signal is. I wanted to get your opinion from experience (especially those who build and lay cables in the studio) of what cable distance you start feeling the difference. For those of you that placing the Pre’s in the live room, how do you mange to control it from the control room? __________________ shauli "Analog meets Digital and lovin' it"

13th January 2007	#3
Bassace Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 181	the studio distances will not make any difference ...i ave used pres on stage before and then gone line in the mixer ..that makes a difference to my ears __________________ even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and again........ Fletcher

14th January 2007	#5
Windtaken Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 263	This might be helpful. It talks about mics with/without transformers and about losing clarity with the length of the cable. http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=29 __________________ Simon

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13th January 2007	#2
Crash Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 1,722	I can't imagine that the distances that would occur in a studio would make a bit of difference.

13th January 2007	#4
Solunaris Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,698	a buddy of mine who's opinion I trust highly told me once that it's better to have short distances between the mic and preamp. I have my rack of pre's downstairs in the room with my drums, then I go line out of that into my snake, and into my control room. I've had my pre's in the control room before I moved them down with the drums. It is better.

14th January 2007	#6
Blacky Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Austria/Europe Posts: 189	Shortly as you can! But isn't really the main thing. Take good cables and plugs!! Thats the way i think

15th January 2007	#7
shauli Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Westchester, NY Posts: 94 Thread Starter 2 Reviews written	Thanks for the input so far. I am in a point that I got choices, and decisions to make. I am building a studio, the distance between the live room and the control room is less then 100 feet (30 meter). As role of thumb “Make the distance between the source and the pre as short as possible”, in the distance that I am dealing with is it make sense to go through the expense and design complication of arranging the pres to be in the live room or the benefits will be so minimal that I am wasting my time and money.

15th January 2007	#9
pgk Gear nut Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 112	pres in tracking room sent to control room line level pres in control room sent to tracking room mic level and back do it both ways and see if you can hear a difference before you commit. i'd be very surprised if you could'nt, because it ain't subtle at that distance. if you have the option of keeping your pres in the tracking room,(and using your console to monitor),running them back to the control room at line level is always the best situation. no question about it. it's one of those un-debatable things. imo anyone who would argue that point has simply never done it and is just looking to argue about something

15th January 2007	#10
ghellquist Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 411	Yep, keep them short, below 300 feet whenever possible (100 meters). Good condensor mics can run farther but dynamics start to suffer. But this is actually all very simple to test for yourself. Set up two same type mics real close, give one a short cable and the other a long one and record both to one mono channel each. Ask someone else to cut the two recording as AAABAABBA or any other random sequence with at least ten tests. Now listen through them and value each change as better / same / worse. Set them up in a table and fill in your results (don´t look at the ordering before you have set your values on paper). I fyou want to be absolutely certain, redo the test switching the cables (it might be the mics that differ). -------------No worse -- No same -- No better A->A A->B B->A B->B If you see a significant number of worse for the longer cable, repeat with a shorter cable until satisfied. Gunnar