Neve 8816 Owners Only

[soundtrack2life]

First off I wanted to see how many Neve 8816 owners there are here. Second I was curious if you are still in love with the 8816. I have heard the Vintage King summing shoot out and really love the sound of the 8816. . . . except for the slight distortion. I do enjoy and want the Neve color / sound. Are any of you using the box with out getting the distortion like in the shootout? Better yet could you post links to mixes that you had done with the 8816. I am really considering this box. TIA
Joe Fanelli

[soundtrack2life]

Anyone . . . . .

[Ognjan]

Here is one...
I still love it!

[ChrisHaag]

In December I was searching for information about the 8816 because I was thinking of buying one. I read this thread and was concerned.

When I received my demo unit I tested it for a couple of day and listened especially carefully to any kind of distortion. Finally I ordered my own, which I am using now. I can confirm that using both units there was nothing of distortion.

Chris

[morebutter]

I dont own one but the 8816 is not 'Neve Sound', the Neve Sound is one of a discrete circuit, the 8816 is IC based. I know very little about this stuff but this I do know. If it had the Neve Sound at that price I would have bought one a while ago. I went with a Speck XSum and am very happy. The 8816 does have some nice features and layout though.

[ChrisHaag]

Morebutter, the Speck XSum was actually number two on my list. I decided to go for the Neve because of:

- Total recall
- M/S inserts, by switch
- More flexible monitor section
- Nice logo impressing customers (at least older ones…)

It is of course the question whether this is worth twice the money… I do not care what’s inside the box as long as it sounds good. I had opportunities to sit in from of a big Neve console, but I can not say whether the 8816 has the “real” Neve sound or not. Personally I like the sound of the 8816, that’s it.

Joe, I listened to tons of A/B material before getting a demo unit. A German magazine had sound demos of a dozen analog summing units. But the quality of the recordings was everything but outstanding. The question is what the test is worth then. But we were able by double blind tests to clearly identify the best sounding unit. At the end I went mad with listening to the sound demos. The difference is not that big…

When I received the 8816 and tested it, the results were great – but different to what I expected from the sound demos I heard so far. I know this is a stupid/generic recommendation, but from my own experience in this case I can say the best was getting a demo unit, turning the knobs with my own fingers and listening.

Chris

[Plush]

I really like the sound of the 8816 with fader pack. I am really picky and we have other Neve consoles here to compare it to. The 8816 stands up and says, " I am an excellent analog mixer system." It is not a console--it is a 16X2 mixer.

No distortion, no fuzzy sound, no germanium, no nonsense.
The sound of Neve is the sound of Neve. Old Neve was discrete class A. New Neve is like the 88 series--chip based. Good design is good design.

Endorsed here! Your mileage WON'T vary!

[stevegries]

So I've recently begun using my recently acquired (purchased used) Neve 8816 and built a mix that consists of 20 or so tracks being sent from Logic in subgroups out my Lynx Aurora 16 to the 16 ins on my Neve 8816. I have the mix sounding as I want it coming out of the main monitor outs on the 8816 and it sounds quite good.

So I then connected 2 Mogami XLR cables from the Main Mix outs with the intention of running them to a Grace 201 and back into the Lynx to print my mix in Logic. But as soon as I connect the XLRs to the 8816 outs, I get an easily audible distortion out my main monitors. The weird thing is that the XLRs coming off the Main Mix outs do not even need to terminate to generate the distortion in the Monitor outs. As soon as they are connected - essentially acting only as an extension cord of the DSUB output snake - the distortion appears.

This rules out the possibility of any sort of feedback loop.

If anyone has had this problem or has any theories, I would very much appreciate it!

[RFZ DUDE]

I did an installation here in Berlin based around the 8816 a couple years ago.
Have been very impressed with the facilities the 8816 offers, not so impressed with 1. the pricing and 2. the built quality.

It is not crappy made but for that money i would NOT love to see the innards of a unit and think of a budget PC made of the most available / cost effective parts.

Maybe its just me..

Anyways, lovely sounds & great flexibility.

[ray_subsonic]

Originally Posted by RFZ DUDE

for that money i would NOT love to see the innards of a unit and think of a budget PC made of the most commonly available / cost effective parts.

Thats what I thought when I opened the unit I was using in another studio. I like the sound of the unit, but the build quality inside seemed very light-on .. He's since sold it and moved on ..

The manufacturing of each unit would have been a TINY fraction of the significant money you paid. For that you get one very large cheap flimsy PCB with SMD components and all your I/O on D-Sub. I was a it underwhelmed by the build quality, but I've been finding that a lot in the last 10 years. This owner had numerous issues with his unit.

I'm not sure if that was an isolated example. It still sounds good. There is no denying ... But it doesn't compare to any of the Neve consoles build-wise.

[RFZ DUDE]

Originally Posted by ray_subsonic

Thats what I thought when I opened the unit I was using in another studio. I like the sound of it, but the build quality seemed very light-on .. The owner has since sold it and moved on ..

When i think of Neve quality i see the old modules, the beautiful wiring and all that.

That is what makes Neve so well regarded, imho.

The 8816 sounds great and is very flexible, no question, but i feel that for this kind of money somebody out there must be able to build something really Neve-ish.

[LeMauce]

Would pick a Phoenix audio Nicerizer 16 1000x over the 8816. Price and soundwise. I had them bought and sold the 8816 quick when having the Nicerizer 16.

[axlepaas]

Had mine for a year and half now, always really loved mine. There's def a little quality control with the units, but when they work, they do work very well.

...curious. Do u 8816 owners run the mix knob at full when mixing? I've always mixed with the mix knob at max, but recently been backing off it a little...anyone else?

kp

[SCDBM]

Got mine since yesterday and after been ITB for more than 10 years, i have to say I've missed this sound.

People can rathole about what contributes to sound and if analogue summing brings something to the table or not. Here is my experience

- have a 80 channel project into 6 subgroups ITB, without VCC going to the main mix
-have the same project but then with VCC on the subgroups and master
- have the same project summed on the NEVE, without VCC

There is a significant difference in sound, smoothness and density, where VCC (which I am still happy with) immediately degraded itself to the typical VST leaque that still can't compare 1:1 to outboard.

Let me make VERY clear what i say, I LOVE VCC, it served me well, but outboard summing and gain staging on the 8816 remains SOMETHING ELSE.
the density, punch and sense of width and depth are unmatched, all fluid, without the defined pinchy detail of a full ITB mix. Call it mudd, call it crosstalk, blame the dynamic range, i don't care what exactly contributes to it. But it sounds AWESOME and i LOVE it.

Reading the older topics I really don't understand where the "messes up the bass part" came from? bass is as tight and dense as it can be. very dry and defined. about the highs, it's doesn't seem to restrict any transmission of highs, it just does something very fluid with them, soothing the digititus into something more pleasant and less harsch.

If you're looking for that harsch edgy overly bright progressive trance Sylenth type ITB sound (listen to ASOT kind of tracks) This is NOT the unit for for you.
however if you like deeper more mellow structures and complex depth you're going to be in for a big treat

[Plush]

Box is still fantastic here with excellent density and width on the mixes.
Units guts are based on the 88R console.

[foldback]

My 8816/8804 is one of the first units Guitar Center sold (I had to wait for the fader pack to come in). It's been working and sounding flawless for me.

The motherboard in the 8816 is not cheap and not flimsy. It's a very high quality multi-layer pc board and it's packed with components. It's not built like they built things in 1970's, but we're not living in the 70's and nothing today is built like that.

I don't mind the D-sub connectors either, mine all feed a patchbay so the D-subs make it fast to disconnect and move my system.

I had "HAVE" make me a D-Outs cable so I can have all the channel Direct Outputs in the patchbay to feed hardware analog effects.

When you use the fader pack, the rotary pots on the 8816 become effect or cue sends. I have this output normaled into a PCM 92 reverb so I have a hardware reverb available all the time.

I might like this system more if it had faders and pots that were more heavy duty but the bottom line is, it works as advertised and I have not had any failures with my units. No funky distortion or fuzz, it's a really great clean sounding way to bring a mix together.

As for the price, yes it would be nice if it was lower but, please consider that this is an extremely limited market, there are not that many people buying it. Maybe more would buy it if it was cheaper but how much cheaper would it have to be to get double the sales? Would that quantity of sales justify all the work?

I'm satisfied with my 8816/8804. No problems here. No problems with customers buying our music either, not one of them has complained about our little Neve mixer or it's sound.

Best of luck to all of you.

[ray_subsonic]

Originally Posted by foldback

It's not built like they built things in 1970's, but we're not living in the 70's and nothing today is built like that.

I have read a number of your other posts and I do respect your opinion. I think it's the statement above that may sum up what I was reacting to. My time with the unit was brief and I went on initial impressions.

Let's be clear. There are no issues with the sound of the unit. .

I was however underwhelmed by the build quality & internals .. PCB mounted pots, a plethora of SMD components on a large scale PCB .. Sure, a lot of gear nowadays is produced like this, but that's not to say it's what's best for end users .. Gear manufactured like this doesn't last ..

Originally Posted by foldback

Nothing today is built like that.

I don't fully agree with that statement. I'm sure you'd agree there has been a significant swing back to outboard gear being made with through-hole circuit boards and larger form components for all sorts of other simple economic reasons. However I don't want to derail the thread or turn SMD technology into the devil. Everything has it's place but I'm standing by what I say ...

[SCDBM]

and i don't agree with that. why settle for homebrew component soldering, if you can have quality checked smd assembly lines?

component PCB's only reflect manual labour in low volume.

[keepthefunkalive]

I use the 8816 on all my mixes and couldn't be more happy about it.
I love the Mid/side option and the "stereo width" control is awesome!

[Warren Beck]

Hello.

I own one of these little beasties. I bought it from Vintage King in the US - and very glad that I had. I bought the unit on spec - small foot print, summing only, portable, and the only one of its type at the time. The unit arrived from VK slightly damaged - due to UPS thank you very much. VK had Neve ship directly to me new pots to repair the unit. The pots are cheap Alps and are very flaky. They are pcb mounted, and that is always fun to get the old ones out and new ones in. When I opened the unit to do the work I was shocked at the cheapness of the metal work, the cheap and soft screws, how the pots were re-enforced with a shim, only two transformers on the main outs - not in the direct signal chain, etc.. The unit runs terribly hot - begging the question of appropriate ventilation and if it uses led-free solder the lifespan of the mother board. After about a year one of the out-put jacks became intermittent. Again a call to VK and several replacements were sent to me - both times at $0 cost to me. This is exceptional customer service from Jeffery at VK – as with all my purchases. But this little mixer is a symptom of modern manufacturing, cost cutting, and market positioning. It is cheap, Neve makes a good dollar off of it, and the retailer must as well. Sonically it is quiet, very useable, good, and reliable. I feel it is better manufactured than the comparable API 1U product. Being of the olde school when it comes to manufacturing - and I do not subscribe to the contemporary Joe-Audio phenomenon - the Neve 8816 is decent, useable (remote and fixed location), will require faders, and pots in your inventory for maintenance 2+ years out due to regular use (like anything). But it is expensive for its quality of design and manufacture.

[Plush]

I agree with everything Warren says above. His is a very good description of the box. The UK workmanship from AMS-Neve is the epitome of cost cutting.
Then they charge like Neve.

That said, it is producing a very creditable and excellent sonic mix here.

[jpgstrat]

When i sum, i go out of the Neve 8816 and into a Masterlink. I send the master disc to mastering to avoid the extra conversion. My question is, those of you who said there is no difference mixing in the box and through the Neve, are you mixing through the neve 8816 and back into the box???? Same question for the SSL.

I think if you go back into the box you are defeating the purpose of the summing, or am i just nuts. I hear a difference in this manner, not when I mix back into the box. I think if i went back into the box i would get 2 channels of really superior conversion, 5k + range.

I run PT HD3, 192 to Neve. I monitor through the neve. Dynaudio BM5's and yamaha Hs80's, No external clock, although its on my short list. API, Daking and Fivefish 500 series. I have to say I believe it sounds amazing and radio ready. I do try to record drums and bass on a real Neve console.

once i figured out the gain structure on the 8816, what infinity and what "0" really meant i have not had an issue. It took a while, a lot of reading goes a long way with this unit. It can be used so many different ways including a mic pre. The fader pack does way more than just give you faders. (on my list). The recall option is way cool as well.

You should really read the manual cover to cover to understand all that it does. I use my ears not my eyes, it sounds A W E S O M E

I had a couple moments of "aww sh-t" when i first started running this unit but i must say it has all gone away. It runs my headphone feed, mix to masterdisc, my monitor mix, my 1/2 tape feed... just awesome. When i bounce to 1/2 inch, it is just magical.

james

[nobtwiddler]

I've had a 8816 & fader pack for a number of years now.
They are both part of my portable / location recording rig.

I don't do live shows...there are many better equipped trucks for that type of thing.
I use it instead to cut album tracks in different locations around the area.
Gets me outta the studio! And the artists, bands can record wherever they want.

Anyhow, long story short.
The 8816 works great, and I gotta say for what it is, it really does sound wonderful.
Years ago, I had another small (boutique) mixer, which was also a great sounding mixer, but it broke down so often that I had to cancel many gigs.
Lost a lot of money, and gigs.
Couldn't rely on it.

So when this came out, I went for it.
So far so good!

Actually I've done quite a bit of recording with this unit.
While tracking, it's usually used just as a monitor / headphone mixer.

That being said, the premise of my location company and rig is to do an entire record in a week. So on many occasions, I've actually mixed while at that location thru the 8816.
No regrets!
Always sounds great...

You can see it in the photo, along with a API 8200, which is used during tracking to sum tracks together, while the 8816 is used to monitor.

Then during mixing, the 8816 is the primary mixer, with the API used to handle the effects returns if I need more channels...

So that's my story.

[mrtuesday]

Love my 8816. (although I haven't compared to all the competition (dangerous 2-bus, BLA pm8, SSL X-desk etc etc).

Love what it does to top end (esp cymbals). You don't lose any tops, it just seems to soften or compress them in a very pleasing way. Gives everything a lovely sheen.

I do have an issue with the mon knob - can be scratchy & you have to tease it into position to get equal L & R levels. Anyone else experienced this? Or is it just time to replace the pot?

[wrekdahouse]

Originally Posted by nobtwiddler

So that's my story.

man i just love your rig !

[nobtwiddler]

Hey Wrek....
Thanks!

It's really a simple set up, born from the sound of records I loved as a kid, and a desire to be able to cut tracks basically anywhere.
I'm old school at heart.

Since that photo was taken, It's now expanded to three racks!
(actually 6 if you count the lower racks which hold all the cables, mic's speakers, etc...)

I recently decided, that I wanted to separate the audio racks from the computer / recording racks.
On some of the gigs, we are using 8 track reel to reel recorders, so there is no reason to have to bring a computer set up and lug extra stuff around if it's not going to be used.
And I am also a fan of the Radar V and use that quite a bit. (4th rack!)

The computer rack was purchased for two reasons.
#1 - to make things very portable,
#2 - because it can sit in the room with me and the band, as it doesn't make any noise to speak of.

That being said,
I've now separated everything so that the two main cases, house the 16 Helios Mic pres, 5 x Shadow Hills Comps, the API 8200, Neve 8816, and fader pack.

The third rack now houses all the conversion, 2 x UNL-8's, the computer, and second screen, hard drives cable storage etc.

Very quick set up, with beautiful sonics, that can be set up just about anywhere!

[mike vee]

Originally Posted by jpgstrat

When i sum, i go out of the Neve 8816 and into a Masterlink. I send the master disc to mastering to avoid the extra conversion. My question is, those of you who said there is no difference mixing in the box and through the Neve, are you mixing through the neve 8816 and back into the box???? Same question for the SSL.

I think if you go back into the box you are defeating the purpose of the summing, or am i just nuts. I hear a difference in this manner, not when I mix back into the box. I think if i went back into the box i would get 2 channels of really superior conversion, 5k + range.

I run PT HD3, 192 to Neve. I monitor through the neve. Dynaudio BM5's and yamaha Hs80's, No external clock, although its on my short list. API, Daking and Fivefish 500 series. I have to say I believe it sounds amazing and radio ready. I do try to record drums and bass on a real Neve console.

once i figured out the gain structure on the 8816, what infinity and what "0" really meant i have not had an issue. It took a while, a lot of reading goes a long way with this unit. It can be used so many different ways including a mic pre. The fader pack does way more than just give you faders. (on my list). The recall option is way cool as well.

You should really read the manual cover to cover to understand all that it does. I use my ears not my eyes, it sounds A W E S O M E

I had a couple moments of "aww sh-t" when i first started running this unit but i must say it has all gone away. It runs my headphone feed, mix to masterdisc, my monitor mix, my 1/2 tape feed... just awesome. When i bounce to 1/2 inch, it is just magical.

james

what is the difference if you go to the masterlink or back to DAW??? It's still an A/D process.

[TL2]

I've had my 8816 since Jan '07 and it's been in constant use ever since. It's usually on 24/7 and hardly gets powered down. My only issue is sometimes the MON knob is scratchy in the RIGHT channel only and the tracking gets lazy at low levels. A quick twist usually solves it immediately. Annoying at times but not to the point where I feel the need to part with it for service. That and I'm too damn booked to deal anyway.

I use it to sum out of PT during mix down and hit a rack or two of outboard comps and eq's on the way in (I dump to a DVRA100HD). Every single time I get lazy and start an ITB mix (always my default mindset when I see low budget or TV/commercial work), my ears miss what this thing does and I end up patching away. My billable hours drop when this happens but in an industry where every single thing you produce is a potential business card, ya' gotta go with the SOUND!

And you know what? The thing just sounds good. Like an 81XX or 80XX? Nope. But really nice... just enough added THICK and WIDE with a touch of SMOOTH - but still clear. Something about the ability to place instruments along the soundstage more accurately (than ITB) when summing through this box makes it worth the price of admission to me alone. That and the control section and routing functions are great. I don't care what this thing is made of and I've forgotten what I paid to begin with. And whenever I get my annual console lust, I remember that this thing works as advertised.... allowing me to do the same!

[tomat]

Very happy with the Neve 8816, here.
Can be very clean and transparent when needed, but really comes to life when gently clipping the output !

Once, I got one scratchy Pan knob, but a few back and forth solved the issue.

[Warren Beck]

Yes the cheap Alps pots are prone to issues if used with any regularity.

How do you fellows find the fader pack stands up? They certainly are not conductive plastic faders at that price. So you have to clean them ever?