3124+, AEA TRP, AEA r84 VS 3124+ and Horch RM2J

[Robobo1]

I usually am not a fan of these kinds of posts... but now that I'm in the position of making a purchase, I understand the need!

I've got quite a wide range of mics and pres available to me at the studio.... your typical collection of SDCs, LDCs, tube mics, nothing real special, nothing stands out other than two Heine-modified U87s and two Neumann M269s. Millenia (racks of Millenia), GML, Neve pres, and a two-channel API lunchbox.

I'm looking to enlarge my personal collection. I do mostly jazz recording, in-studio, but am expanding to do on-location as well.

My VERY small collection:
Royer SF-12
2x Beyer m160s
1x Beyer m88

I want to compliment what is already available to me and the work I do... I've come up with two possibilities:

ONE
API 3124+ pre
AEA The Ribbon Pre
AEA r84 (perhaps 2 of these)

TWO
Horch RM2J tube mic
API 3124+ pre

Option TWO is a little more than I originally intended to spend... but I like the idea of having a killer tube around. I usually want to buy mics in pairs, but I can't justify buying two of the Horch!

Thoughts?


Rob

[ISedlacek]

It depends what your primary use would be. I consider Horch to be an amazing vocal mic - definitely one of the best on the planet ... So for vocals - there is no doubt it would be a incredible upgrade for you.

But if your intention is to record instruments, I don´t know.
At one moment I had a pair of Horchs here (demo and my new). I tried to record few instruments, but always a pair of Schoeps did much better sounding work (I was actually quite happy about it ). What sounds great on vocals, does not always sound great on instruments ...

As for as preamp is concerned if you have a possibility to try Pendulum MDP-1 preamp, you may find it sounding a lot better than API (I had both here for quite some time), so it may be another nice upgrade ...

Just a thought (based on a personal experience), nothing more ...

(So buying just one Horch, you can still have 2 AEA R84 + TRP preamp, which is my future gearlust intention too

[Robobo1]

Now you've really got me thinking... the comparisons I've heard so far of the Pendulum sound GREAT. I have a feeling that pre would sound really good on piano.

Have you ever used the Horch on sax?

-Rob

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Robobo1

Have you ever used the Horch on sax?
-Rob

No sax here (ever) ...

[picksail]

I've always gotten great results using the R84/3124 combo.

They compliment each other quite well.

[Vari-Mu]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

It depends what your primary use would be. I consider Horch to be an amazing vocal mic - definitely one of the best on the planet ... So for vocals - there is no doubt it would be a incredible upgrade for you.

But if your intention is to record instruments, I don´t know.
At one moment I had a pair of Horchs here (demo and my new). I tried to record few instruments, but always a pair of Schoeps did much better sounding work (I was actually quite happy about it ). What sounds great on vocals, does not always sound great on instruments ...

I agree with Ivo. The RM2J sounds fantastic for vocals but has a bump at 7/8 kHz that makes it unsuitable as a close mic on many instruments in my experience. I've tried it on alto and didn't like it. At that point i reverted to using Coles so I haven't tried it on tenor, although I would imagine that, depending on the player and what you're looking for, it may work better for that instrument. For sure it's not going to sound like Blue Note though, if that's what you're after.

It is great as a room mic where distance from the source/s compensates for the bump in the capsule response .

Best,

Vari-Mu

[Robobo1]

Anyone have experience with ribbons through the Pendulum?

From what I'm reading on searches there's not enough gain?


Rob

[Jamz]

I've had limited luck with an R84 through the Pendulum MDP-1 with the Jensen mod. In this case (for me) the source has to be fairly loud. Recently, this combination worked well on a vocalist. However, I've had fewer gain issues running ribbons through the Focusrite ISA 430 than through the MDP-1. Typically, I use ribbons with the TRP and would consider it a worthwhile investment for this reason alone.
I really like the R84. I have two. My go-to mic for sax and a nice option for vocals. Especially, on warm smooth vocalists or to tame a harsh vocal.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Vari-Mu

I agree with Ivo. The RM2J sounds fantastic for vocals but has a bump at 7/8 kHz that makes it unsuitable as a close mic on many instruments in my experience.

We have had quite different experiences... I have used the RM-2J on horns with quite pleasing result... other instruments too, I have found it to absolutely be my microphone of choice for archtop acoustic guitars... but as always, YMMV.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

We have had quite different experiences... I have used the RM-2J on horns with quite pleasing result... other instruments too, I have found it to absolutely be my microphone of choice for archtop acoustic guitars... but as always, YMMV.

Do you use one Horch, Horch pair or Horch in combination with other microphones ?

[Vari-Mu]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

We have had quite different experiences... I have used the RM-2J on horns with quite pleasing result... other instruments too, I have found it to absolutely be my microphone of choice for archtop acoustic guitars... but as always, YMMV.

Different experiences? Unheard of...

What type of horns did you like it on? What sort of music?

With horn players with a hard tone I found that the Horch emphasised some of the upper harmonics to the point where the result was a little harsh and the midrange-ie the most useful bit - seemed to get a bit obscured. The players' tone was obviously a factor and with softer toned players the result would be different. Like I said I can see it working better for tenor than for alto or soprano.

Obviously it also depends on what sort of sound you're after from the part. I mostly record jazz so on horns, I tend to be looking for something a little darker than the RM2J provides. I can see the Horch working for a more "modern" bright vibe given the right player but the people I work for tend to prefer the sound of a ribbon or the darker LDCs.

I hardly ever get to record archtop. Next time I do, I'll give the Horch a go.

This discussion reminds me of the limited usefulness of forums in making decisions on what to get. The right thing to do is get the piece and see if it produces results you like in your environment .


Cheers

Vari-Mu

[Robobo1]

Originally Posted by Vari-Mu

This discussion reminds me of the limited usefulness of forums in making decisions on what to get. The only thing to do is get the piece and see if it produces results you like in your environment .


Cheers

Vari-Mu

I agree 100%... and this is exactly what I'm doing! I've ordered the Pendulum with 2 AEA r84s and an AEA TRP... and have foregone the Horch. I don't necessarilly plan on using the 84s in conjunction with the Pendulum.... but I'm gonna give all these a shot with my various other gear on a few sessions and see what I like!

It WAS useful to me to read your comments about the Horch, though, Vari-Mu.

[analogjeff]

[QUOTE=Robobo1;1050931]Anyone have experience with ribbons through the Pendulum?

From what I'm reading on searches there's not enough gain?

I use the pendulum with a roeyer 121 all the time and have absolutely no problem with gain -- i don't the r84, though, so i guess that could be a lot lower gain, but from what i know that's not the case...

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by Robobo1

I agree 100%... and this is exactly what I'm doing! I've ordered the Pendulum with 2 AEA r84s and an AEA TRP... and have foregone the Horch. I don't necessarilly plan on using the 84s in conjunction with the Pendulum.... but I'm gonna give all these a shot with my various other gear on a few sessions and see what I like!

It WAS useful to me to read your comments about the Horch, though, Vari-Mu.

Congrats! Can't go wrong with that purchase. Enjoy!

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Robobo1

I agree 100%... and this is exactly what I'm doing! I've ordered the Pendulum with 2 AEA r84s and an AEA TRP... and have foregone the Horch. I don't necessarilly plan on using the 84s in conjunction with the Pendulum.... but I'm gonna give all these a shot with my various other gear on a few sessions and see what I like!

It WAS useful to me to read your comments about the Horch, though, Vari-Mu.

Anyway, if you share your experience with all this, it would be for sure very interesting to hear

[Robobo1]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Anyway, if you share your experience with all this, it would be for sure very interesting to hear

Of course... gear arrives later this week, I'll let you know what I think.