Studio Bass Amp & Cab

[denial]

With so many bassists that can't afford a good amp/cabinet and always having to use DI's, I'd like to buy the most suitable pro bass rig at any price for rock band recording. Which amp and cabinet would you recommend?

[Dave Martin]

I'd look at one of two things - both fairly old. Either an Ampeg B-15 or an Ampeg SVT. Both are magical on rock bass.

[NathanEldred]

I like Ampeg 10's better. The 15's accentuate somewhere in the 800hz-2k range too much, I find 10's to fit better in the mix. I've got the 4x10 Ampeg pro cab with the LF extension port, goes down to 40hz. But in general the smaller speakers need a good DI for low end solidity, but a DI cannot duplicate the high mid/high frequency aggression that the 10" speakers can. A DI is just too smooth overall, but again that is great for low end.

[Jay Kahrs]

Strange. I find that I get most of my low end from the amp and the mids & high come from the DI. That has a lot to do with how the player dials in his amp but I still find myself asking the majority of players to roll low end off their amp no matter what mic I stick in front of it or where I put that mic.

Regardless, Dave nailed it. It's really tough to go wrong with a B15 or SVT and an 8x10. Between that and something like an SWR or Eden you'll have all the bases covered. On the flip side I've gotten some pretty good tones with a pair of DI's. One right off the bass and one on the output of a Sansamp.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

ROCK Bass begins and ends with a BFO (Big **** Off ) SVT mk 1 with a 'Fridge' 8 x 10 cab...

If it aint happening with that it aing gona happen with anything!

Sure there are way more amps than that but its my fave Rock amp setup.

Wiggy

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs

Between that and something like an SWR or Eden you'll have all the bases covered. On the flip side I've gotten some pretty good tones with a pair of DI's. One right off the bass and one on the output of a Sansamp.

I use an SWR Super Redhead for live work, but I've never tried tracking through it... Hmmm - something else to try.

[Tousana]

I Have to agree with those who say Ampeg SVT and the 8x10 coffin cab or the B15. Just did a project with a B15 cab and it was magic. Placed the mic in front of the cabinet and pushed the fader up,couldn't have been easier. It also helped that the player knew what he was doing as well. I will generally try to work with what's brought into the session by the band and if that's not a happening thing, I have easy access to the Ampegs. If you don't have a way to get either of these, think of renting some bass rigs to see what you like and go from there. Must places are have pretty reasonable rates.

[BattleAngel]

Yeah, the ampegs are great, but I actually have found that a few rigs are better for the sound I like:

The Aguilar line is just smoking. The hybrid head into their 12" loaded cabs is out of this world.

An EBS head into a 12" Bergantino cab smokes for rock tones.

An Ashdown MAG head into an Epifani 3x10 was glorious and couldn't have been more perfect for a track I did. You can actually hear it here:

http://media.nowhereradio.com/cgi-bi..._03_master.mp3 (use Save As...)

The most recent bass tracking we did was with a huge all tube classic ampeg svt head into an Epifani cab, and while it was good, I would have picked any of the above over this rig.

I also love the sound of the bass through my Quartet.

[Fibes]

The Svt and B-15 are great but sometimes one is too much and the other is not enough, especially in relation to volume.

I have a B-12 and it doesn't have much headroom, i think i need to swap out the speaker. Any suggestions?

There are days when i wish i had ONE amp in between the two...

[chingon]

I've never been to much of an ampeg fan, overhyped i think. But if your looking into ampeg you might want to look into a Aguilar DB680 pre-amp. I had one and it kicks some major ass. It has a parametric eq and you can get almost any tone you want out of it. This thing has the fatest tone, or should I say obese. You can plug this thing direct to tape with the DI that has an adjustable output. THis unit kicks ass. Some bass players I've talked to refer to the pre-amp as an ampeg on steroids. Check it out: http://www.aguilaramp.com/html/products/db680.html

[Henrik]

I don't think I've ever seen a B15 over here where I live (in Sweden) - so I'd really like a recommendation from you guys who have worked with them. Would you guys who have worked with them say you can get the same type of aggressive sound as with an SVT? And what about the low end? I mean, all due respect for a "vintage" tone, but sometimes that entails a rather mushy and undefined low end ( particularly with a 15" speaker). I want a solid and defined low end (duh).

I'm considering an amp for my studio. I love the SVT sound, but I simply find it too damn loud for studio use (as I like to crank it to get the aggresive bite). I like the opportunity of recording other musicians playing in the same room. Do you guys think a B15 would fit the bill for me? Or maybe I should get a V4B, which I understand is an SVT with less power?

Best,
Henrik

[ToddF]

I get the lows from the D.I. and the rest from the amp and cabinet. Make sure to record directly from the bass not an out from the head. The Ampeg SVT head and 8x10 cab are hard to beat. A fender bassman amp and cab has a great but different sound also. Todd F.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by Henrik
I'm considering an amp for my studio. I love the SVT sound, but I simply find it too damn loud for studio use (as I like to crank it to get the aggresive bite). I like the opportunity of recording other musicians playing in the same room. Do you guys think a B15 would fit the bill for me? Or maybe I should get a V4B, which I understand is an SVT with less power?

The similarites between an SVT and a B15 stop at the Ampeg nameplate. If you think an 15" speaker is mushy with something like an Eden or whatever solid state amp driving it a B15 will be...I don't know...a LOT more mushy. Personally I like that mush for somethings.

[cdog]

Good topic - many name engineers just skip the amp and insist on using DI only (Bruce Swedien), which IMO jost robs the bass player of their personal tone in favor of a predicatable (read: generic), easy to mix sound.

In general I find its best to split the bass signal into 2 paths.

1. Goes to your favorite DI. You will likely need to add some gain to get a hot signal if the bassist is not using an active bass with preamp circuitry. Be careful of clipping, electric basses are very dynamic and a good input level for fingerstyle will likely be too hot for slapping or picking. Just ask the bassist to play the main riff for each track beforehand, and get him to play it as hard as possible. Set the DI level for each song accordingly.

Avoid compression at this point though it will tempt you. If you must, use a smooth sounding compressor with a slow attack and release at a low ratio.


2. This goes to the amp. Try to roll off some of the low lows (below 100hz) on the amp so you can get the mic right on the grille without it distorting. If you want that agressive, cutting tone (see: Korn) you're going to get it from the upper mids. If the bass has active eq, set up the treble for a slight boost. Likewise on the amp, and make sure the low mids are thumping (220hz).

I prefer a large diaghram condenser mic here, although any mic capable of taking high SPL is fine. (its only bass right?)The AE-2500 dual element mic is nice for this application, AKG 414, U47, U99 take your pick although I prefer a clean sounding mic here.

The amp and speakers will naturally compress the signal to some degree, more when the rig is driven harder, so the signal should be less dynamic than the DI.

The amp is what gives the bass its tone or timbre that is audible as musical notes, whereas the DI I usually roll off everything above 120hz, compress it, and use it for clean, unadulterated THUMP factor, which is almost atonal.

IMO the Ampeg SVT "monster in a box" and matching 8x10 of death are best kept on the stage where they belong. If you want to use the SVT, just use a 210 honestly the tone will be the same and the roadie will thank you.

The B15 though is definitely a treat if you can find an original. No real bass to speak off, just lots of toneful mids. I actually bought a Matchless Thunderman (B15 remake) just for this purpose.

SWR Super Redhead is OK, but won't give you the "GRRRRR" of a real Class A power section. Aguilars are also sweet.

No one has mentioned the Fender Bassman. This amp (original) is defintely a killer on bass. I wouldn't use it on stage (no real bass) but as a 4x10 tone factory for recording, this thing is great.

Also, you may be shocked at how well original Marshall amps reproduce bass tones. If you can find an original Marshall Plexi or Super Lead, plug that into your favorite 4x12 and prepare for a wicked tone. (watch out though, those beasts are loud!)

Below is my favorite bass DI.

cdog

[subspace]

Originally posted by Fibes
The Svt and B-15 are great but sometimes one is too much and the other is not enough, especially in relation to volume.

I have a B-12 and it doesn't have much headroom, i think i need to swap out the speaker. Any suggestions?

There are days when i wish i had ONE amp in between the two...

An Ampeg B-25B falls somewhere in there, kind of a B-15 with a 50 watt class AB power section.
The V4 really sounds like a different animal to me...

[Heterodox]

I've used all of the amps mentioned here (and most of the cabs)...and must hands-down agree you should try some Aguilar gear. Ampeg is overly hyped IMHO.

The db680 is (again, IMHO) the best bass tone you are ever going to find (and that's with the knobs FLAT). The corresponding db728, 400 watt all tube power amp is insane...and will blow the doors off ampeg in terms of rich, 3-dimensional sound.

The db359 is a great combo Pre/Power that is based off the circuitry of both afforementioned units. Basically you get less tubes, a few missing features, and less power (200W). That 200W of all tube, however, is still loud as hell.

I'd have to wholeheartedly suggest trying aguilar cabs to.

To me, Ampeg sounds like a song recorded with poor gear that has been touched up so well, it damn near borders on "professional." Alas, by all the mangling (boosting, cutting, pulling, pushing) the song ends up sounding very weak in comparison to something that is just plain recorded well. Now, mangle (polish) the good recording...and holy geez!

Ashdown, Eden, etc...are definitely in the general ballpark (SWR/Ampeg/GK want to be), but Aguilar has it pegged by the balls...IMHO, of course.

The Aguilar line is HELLA expensive...but you did say "at any price."

Miked Aguilar setup + Little Labs IBP, perfectly phase aligned = New Golden Age of Bass Tone?

Hmm...never had the opportunity to try it yet - but its my current dream recording setup.

[chingon]

I have to agree on with Heterodox. The DB680 just smokes ampeg gear. To me the ampeg sound is a little constapated. I don't know how to explain it. And the cab I prefer to use over anything out there would be the Bergantino's.

[stakeoutstudios]

Yep, I'm using an Ampeg SVT here with 4x10" cab and a 1x15" cab.

The 10" speaker seems be the sound I'll use most often, and sometimes I'll do a virtual crossover and use some of the very bottom frequencies of the 15" speak or DI depending...

Jason