Hand crafted labs products

[retractablezing]

Originally Posted by frans

I had my affinity preamp made with some additional gain - at the flip of a switch it is ready for my ribbons. Ask Albert/HCL, he will mod everything you want - besides the "bad drummer killswitch" he refused...sigh... so I have to do that myself.

How much gain is that?

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by retractablezing

I meant if you ever had it breaking up a bit, and if so how did it sound..

I don't think I've ever heard it break up. Like I said, I have the input knob maxed out but the pre stays clean - just opens up more. After all it's not a guitar amp, I don't think it's supposed to break up.

Originally Posted by retractablezing

My wild guess is that the HCL fella won't be able to bring the gain to 70 something dBs, cause that would mean major component swaps, especially on the transformer side of things.

Every unit is hand-made on one-by-one basis. They can make any mods you want (provided they don't compromise the sound). Don't guess, just e-mail them.

[retractablezing]

Originally Posted by azzzy

I don't think I've ever heard it break up. Like I said, I have the input knob maxed out but the pre stays clean - just opens up more. After all it's not a guitar amp, I don't think it's supposed to break up.



Every unit is hand-made on one-by-one basis. They can make any mods you want (provided they don't compromise the sound). Don't guess, just e-mail them.

I see. I like to get my pres into breakup though, makes them sound a bit more "vintage".

You get your gain from the tranformers and your opamps. Usually, it's not possible to alter the gain settings without some compromise and deep changes to the design. Hence my question..

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by retractablezing

I see. I like to get my pres into breakup though, makes them sound a bit more "vintage".

You get your gain from the tranformers and your opamps. Hence my question..

Perhaps we mean different things by break up. I am a guitar player and break up to me means audible distortion of the power tubes and in some cases of the preamp tubes. Which is usually refered to as crunch. If a mic pre was breaking up that way I doubt people would want to hear their vocals recorded through it. The Affinity sounds very warm and full at the same time retaining top-end shimmer. Definitely not sterile. I am not sure what exactly vintage pre's are supposed to sound like. I'd say the Affinity sounds "vintage with more definition". Does it make sense? Using guitar analogies, it's kinda like comparing a vintage Fender to a clean channel of a Soldano. While the Fender sounds very warm and full, it lacks that "ping" at the beginning of a note, especially in a chord. With the Soldano you get just as much of fullness and warmth but also each note rings clear and independent. Even at break-up levels. Sorry, I had to resort to a guitar analogy. I lack pro-audio vocabulary.

[retractablezing]

Hey azzzy, i'm a guitar player myself, no problems

When i say breaking up in terms of audio (vocals, etc), it's basically a shimmer on top of the sound, it gets a bit brighter and more present with a bit of hair to it, a bit of crunch i suppose, but not like a fender breakup no.

Normally, preamps with output knobs do this very well.

[HandCrafted Lab]

Originally Posted by retractablezing

60dBs is not enough for some of the work i have to do, quiet sources with ribbon mics. I would have to compress on the way in, which is something i'm not very fond of.

Originally Posted by worm

I really wish I had insisted on that +20db upgrade on my leveler

my only mic being a ribbon.

So... stop which device we consider - Pre or Leveller?

If speech about Leveller, that destination of this device is a correct levelling only. All compressors and levellers has gain up ~8-15dB at all. Here other task, not a huge amplification. 60dB amplification+compression is another story/device - it is channel strip actually.

If speech about Pre,it real,this 60dB. But.... if we start to increase gain up further.....sorry, but how engineer I can not say that it has any sense.
Make difference between dynamical range, noice floor and gain up. These levels can not be alike never. If we have dynamical range 100dB(in theory), that all device worldwide will have noice floor not higher - 85db. Thus, we can have gain up 85dB? But it theory. We can not such gain up,if speech about qualitative amplifcation. And what for? Catch all studio noises,hums? In reality, the best studio has own noise higher. On measuring instruments this level, below -70-75dB has name "white field", no noise,which can be problem in reality, by other words.
If speech about ribbon mics,here 2 way how minimum - 60db gain up is enough for all good ribbon mics.It is enough for Pre,since any pre has own noises. If this gain up not enough,that may be try check other mic? What is sense in purchasing awesome Pre at 3-5K$ with huge gain up, and plugging weak mic into this Pre, if you can plug"correct" mic with good output level, into "correct" Pre from real world,with real indexes and reasonable at price?

Other way with ribbon mics - usage step up trafo with ratio 1:43 for example. Trafo has no own noise in difference from Pre,and 60dB of gain up will be enough.

Originally Posted by retractablezing

I meant if you ever had it breaking up a bit, and if so how did it sound..

My wild guess is that the HCL fella won't be able to bring the gain to 70 something dBs, cause that would mean major component swaps, especially on the transformer side of things.

Any manufacturer, HCL also, can bring 70db and higher without problem. But you cannot work with it . Such awesome pre will catch bad cables, light bulb in studio,digital parasitic noises from computers,radiostation,etc. Correct work with lowest signals achieve in other ways, not increasing gain up till infinity.

Originally Posted by retractablezing

It's a shame, because your products look real good - inside and outside!

Thanx 4 kind words

Originally Posted by frans

I had my affinity preamp made with some additional gain - at the flip of a switch it is ready for my ribbons.

No comments.

No ... HI FRANS!

Originally Posted by frans

Ask Albert/HCL, he will mod everything you want - besides the "bad drummer killswitch" he refused...sigh... so I have to do that myself.

Ha-ha, Frans, I see,that you have same problem still. We afraid,that we shall have a blame due to cruel relation to bad drummers and bass players. We can suggest to you built such special device based on ignition system of your car....I think that 25-50 Kilovolt will be enough for deaf musicians even,with count of 8 pistons in car, it will be enough for whole band of bad drummers and bass players

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Can you add pricing on the Handcraft website? It would help a bit to see how much they cost along with the other specs already on there.

Just an idea.

Thanx. But we prefer communication and discuss with each customer individually. Many people request us and receive our comments each day,and we found best collaboration in such way,in each individual case.

[retractablezing]

Originally Posted by HandCrafted Lab

Any manufacturer, HCL also, can bring 70db and higher without problem. But you cannot work with it . Such awesome pre will catch bad cables, light bulb in studio,digital parasitic noises from computers,radiostation,etc. Correct work with lowest signals achieve in other ways, not increasing gain up till infinity.

Humm..i thought that the mathematics of gain would stumble upon the hability of the transformers to provide it. Unless you're talking about making the preamp work into overdrive pretty much all the time, making trafos, etc, everything work harder all the time, where would you get that extra gain?

Several pres go into 80dBs without any such problems..i think if you have your shielding done right, it won't pick up anything else than what the microphone is hearing no?

Some very good mics have low output, it's just their nature (transformer choice) i guess ;)

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by retractablezing

When i say breaking up in terms of audio (vocals, etc), it's basically a shimmer on top of the sound, it gets a bit brighter and more present

Well, in that case, like I said, the more you turn up the input the brighter and more present it gets. Albert told me that in the Affinity the input stage affects the sound more than the output stage. Hence turning up of the input knob instead of the output. I with I could max out both but then my Aadvark would clip like crazy. Maybe after I get my leveller I'll compress the output just for kicks and try to record with both stages maxed out.

[vibralux]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but speaking of great East European companies Amtec spings to my mind immediately. Lukasz who is the boss there, made the best Pultec style EQ I have ever heard. It is really mind blowing. I had it for few weeks and it was
a killer on anything I have put through it. Check out his PEQ-1 at Mercenary. It' a has a little steep price tag, but its worth every pennie!

cheers

Marty

[retractablezing]

Originally Posted by azzzy

Well, in that case, like I said, the more you turn up the input the brighter and more present it gets. Albert told me that in the Affinity the input stage affects the sound more than the output stage. Hence turning up of the input knob instead of the output. I with I could max out both but then my Aadvark would clip like crazy. Maybe after I get my leveller I'll compress the output just for kicks and try to record with both stages maxed out.

Do you have any ribbons azzzy?

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by retractablezing

Do you have any ribbons azzzy?

Unfortunately (or fortunately ), no. The main two mics I use on everything are AudioTechnica AT4060 and R0DE NTV tube condensers. I also have an SM57 and Shure BetaGreen 5.0 condenser but even for micing guitar cabs I still prefer the tube condensers. I only use SM57 when micing my guitar cab for live gigs (which I haven't had like for a year ). Both tube condensers have huge output. I also ordered a Faust tube condenser from HCL but haven't tried it yet - waiting for an updated power supply. Soon...

[retractablezing]

Originally Posted by azzzy

Unfortunately (or fortunately ), no. The main two mics I use on everything are AudioTechnica AT4060 and R0DE NTV tube condensers. I also have an SM57 and Shure BetaGreen 5.0 condenser but even for micing guitar cabs I still prefer the tube condensers. I only use SM57 when micing my guitar cab for live gigs (which I haven't had like for a year ). Both tube condensers have huge output. I also ordered a Faust tube condenser from HCL but haven't tried it yet - waiting for an updated power supply. Soon...

cheers for the info

[HandCrafted Lab]

Originally Posted by retractablezing

Humm..i thought that the mathematics of gain would stumble upon the hability of the transformers to provide it.

It not is problem..... highest gain up.......additional tube stage or/and interstage trafo and gain up can be above 60dB

Unless you're talking about making the preamp work into overdrive pretty much all the time, making trafos, etc, everything work harder all the time, where would you get that extra gain?

step up trafo and 4 stages can supply 80 dB. But not we.... any circuits,components,tube has technical limitations and reasonable sense.

Several pres go into 80dBs without any such problems...

Full TUBE preamps? Name it

Some manufacturers measure noise floor in different ways....and if you can see specifications of tube pre with "-100-120 dB noise floor" it has funny view, how minimum.....weigh/unweight noise and other tricks....
We measure real noise floor...and any tube can not work without noises of electrons.

80dB gain up mean voltage amplification x10000. Preamp itself will quiet enough...till plugging any source of signal. You will hear your cable,steps and speech in isolated control room, car from street,radio,studio illumination, and other artefacts.

i think if you have your shielding done right, it won't pick up anything else than what the microphone is hearing no?

Ye, shielding and circuit topology is right. And device can not have visible noise. But what we can do with signal source? It has a long cable and low output. But we have first tube already (in variant of 80db gain up for example), which we can use instead of Mic! , we can sing via this tube! , if gain up is 80db. Try connect any mic to this tube,and you will able spy for neighbor behind wall.

Some very good mics have low output, it's just their nature (transformer choice) i guess ;)

Step up trafo is more preferable way in this case

Originally Posted by azzzy

Well, in that case, like I said, the more you turn up the input the brighter and more present it gets. Albert told me that in the Affinity the input stage affects the sound more than the output stage. Hence turning up of the input knob instead of the output. I with I could max out both but then my Aadvark would clip like crazy. Maybe after I get my leveller I'll compress the output just for kicks and try to record with both stages maxed out.

Ye, but here small notice - all tubes/stages should be pumped for good sounding. Deal in reasonable balance between input level, output level for HDR and common gain up.

[retractablezing]

Originally Posted by HandCrafted Lab

Full TUBE preamps? Name it

You're right

Sorry, i wasn't thinking about how the valves would be different to a solid state circuit.

So, within reason (no more trafos, etc), and with the ribbon modification, what's the maximum gain i would be able to take from the preamp?

[HandCrafted Lab]

Originally Posted by retractablezing

You're right

Sorry, i wasn't thinking about how the valves would be different to a solid state circuit.

ye, in solid state or OP circuits it is more really. But working with such highest gain up is not easy yet

So, within reason (no more trafos, etc), and with the ribbon modification, what's the maximum gain i would be able to take from the preamp?

in/out trafos and 3 stages can give real 60dB of gain up,with reasonable noise floor. How you can see, some customers use ribbon mic (frans,for example) without problem

[retractablezing]

cheers for that!

I must look deep into this, your stuff looks real nice.

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by HandCrafted Lab

Ye, but here small notice - all tubes/stages should be pumped for good sounding. Deal in reasonable balance between input level, output level for HDR and common gain up.

Reasonable? When have I ever done anything even remotely reasonable? I am "all buttons in" kinda guy!!!

[HandCrafted Lab]

Originally Posted by azzzy

Reasonable? When have I ever done anything even remotely reasonable?

Ha-ha....

I am "all buttons in" kinda guy!!!

Big guys have 1 big knob


Well, next updating of filltrate leveller

XXL pic 1 XXL pic 2

[filltrate]

looks great...i can hear it already

[worm]

Originally Posted by HandCrafted Lab

So... stop which device we consider - Pre or Leveller?

If speech about Leveller, that destination of this device is a correct levelling only. All compressors and levellers has gain up ~8-15dB at all. Here other task, not a huge amplification. 60dB amplification+compression is another story/device - it is channel strip actually.

I take it back, I read the other guy's post wrong.

I have to say I am very happy with the sound of my leveler. This thing has mojo, lot's of mojo

So far I have mainly used it on bass and I'm getting really satisfying chunky 70s soul/funk sounds with ease.

[filltrate]

Originally Posted by worm

I have to say I am very happy with the sound of my leveler. This thing has mojo, lot's of mojo So far I have mainly used it on bass and I'm getting really satisfying chunky 70s soul/funk sounds with ease.

Thats reassuring to hear ive been doing alot of reading on this site recently and people that own HCL products seem happy w/ them hope thats the case here..i should be getting my S2 in a few weeks

[HandCrafted Lab]

Originally Posted by worm

...I have to say I am very happy with the sound of my leveler. This thing has mojo, lot's of mojo

So far I have mainly used it on bass and I'm getting really satisfying chunky 70s soul/funk sounds with ease.

Tom ,so....upload something here,not hesitate,I think raw tracks is demonstrative always for studio people

And next pics from assembling of filltarte leveller

XXL pic 1 XXL pic 2