Hand crafted labs products

[KingDaddyO]

Originally Posted by jaguarmusicboy

I'm always amazed at the ease with which people in this forum can get their noses out of joint and their knickers in a twist over this stuff; at which point a perfectly reasonable thread will become derailed as one or more parties weighs in with an initial salvo of "LET THE FLAMES BEGIN!" Now I know that musicians and sound engineers are a fiesty lot in general, but cmon folks! Save the venom for the people who need it (my candidates would be the ENTIRE Bush administration and everyone connected with the creation and marketing of BARNEY). Differences are a fact of life as are the conflicts they engender. Successfully managing conflict is an essential survival skill; it inhibits the ultimate social disease of mismanaged conflict which is WAR. So ... in the interest of fairness and a return to useful dialogue (two words never uttered in Pentagon speak) ...

1) Thank you Flute Player, for initiating this thread about a line of equipment I have had a LOT of curiousity about. It appears that the general consensus is certainly in favor of the sound quality being achieved at HCL.

2) Thank you King DaddyO and Not So New, for bringing attention to the wiring and build quality issues. The photo that King supplied the link for should - infact - instill
some caution in those of us who are thinking about purchasing gear from HCL. In particular, the proximity of wires to the heat generating tubes should be a MAJOR concern to the builders especially since only a little extra care in the design and fabrication of these products would eliminate the potential for major shorts and even a possible fire hazard.

In partial defense of the builders, much of the hand point-to-point soldered vintage gear that folks seem to LOVE to throw money at on ebay (RCA, Western Electric,
Federal, etc) looks pretty messy when opened up for inspection; but wires that run in close proximity to an unshielded heat source are absolutely unacceptable. It may be that that particular photo was of an older unit, or an unfortunate "monday morning" sample. In any case, were I the manufacturer, I'd be going back to the designer/fabricators and demanding they implement rapid changes to their design and construction process to improve the safety and longevity of the product. I am still intrigued to hear and try this line; but I don't care HOW good it sounds, I don't want to pay $1200.00 for something that spontaneously combusts in eight months.

After all, spontaneous combustion is for drummers!

Final two cents: HCL should be grateful for this feedback. We all learn from this forum, that's why we're here. What's been suggested is not difficult or expensive and if incorporated, it will greatly improve both the image and sales of their products.

Now play nice in the sandbox all of you, unless of course you're contemplating shooting a purple dinosaur, in which case, GO FOR IT!

Happy New Year All!

jaquarmusicboy, I understand there might be an opening at the U.N. You seem to have a few of the skills that I saw lacking in Mr. Bolton. What the hey...you're already in the neighborhood.

However I want to provide a clarification, just to be sure that my my link in this thread is not giving anyone the wrong impression.

The link I provided in post #12 above, opens up on a thread which is discussing a non-HCL product (specifically, an Innertube Audio Atomic Squeezebox). The wires in the IAAS are indeed really, Really! too close to the tubes. Later in that same IAAS thread (post #23), is where the first link to an HCL image occurs. That is the image being discussed in this thread, and while I did not care for the HCL wiring layout, I think it is only fair to say that it does not pose the same 'too-close-to-the-tubes & 'soon-to-burst-into-flames' concern that the IAAS image shows.

[HandCrafted Lab]

Wow, wow,wow....guys...........thumbsup


Sorry for the our non instant replies...we have in Ukraine here few after new year days still,it`s main holidays,but we continued work today already. And we can see not joking debates here meanwhile.

Well, let to define few important moments now.Each from us is musician, engineer,producer,studioowner..I.e we are people who is occupied by intelligent work in main, and first attribute of any famous big intellectual in past is the loyalty,tolerance for another opinion and friendly tone in communication. Nevertheless,it not was obstructed for these people to perform a lot of great things,discoveries due to wide point of view, but cold nous,study of experience of another peoples,and of right analysing of events,actions,important thing.

How we can sight from life of each from us - than people is more old (i.e - educated,professional,mild,with big life experience) - than less radical in opinions,conclusions...whereas know real DEPTH of this or this question....opposite of young people, which know all(on they opinion) and like to perform quickest conclusion in radical,aggressive way sometimes,calling smiles of old people (with count of the fast overpast youth also..pity ).

Therefore we we call all for loyalty and tolerance concerning to each other, I.e. to be the professional people, engaged intellectual work, and thus showing high standards in the dialogue, inherent in intellectuals. And except for it.... New Year...... Fine mood..... On what all of us is congratulated sincerelythumbsup

Okay first, in the interest of full disclosure I was the one who posted the photos on the link above and in a few other threads as well.

Ye, we know,of course. But we placed these big size pics for it. Probably, an our little pity due to other pics,where wiring is more clear (see above...di-box,channel strip). But each can see indoor of devices(btw., not each manufacturer open device top for overall review.But we can, and our devices will be opened always, before bidding and purchasing). And we shall try that devices became better and better

Also I am sorry to be skeptical of the posts above but I have been around here for a while and when folks with post counts of 15 and 21 come here to claim just how great a company is... well..... that raises my eyebrows.

But Michael....I know a huge amount of people(incl. stellar persons) worldwide, which have a 100-200 post for 2-3 years here(and at the TapeOp etc, or without any post anywhere even ), but who is very, very professional musicians, studioowners,producers,engineers. These people is very occupied by studio work,studiosessions around o`clock,tours and appear here,when decide to refresh device park,study,sell old and buy new/newest gear. Meanwhile, studiosets of these people costs million dollars often. We asks often of our clients to send to us audiosamples from the our gear,but customers not have a time often for it due to big busyness. We understand they,whereas we is very busy also by manufacture (and how musician also) and we have 120 post now during 1,5 year here...though we are manufacturing and supplying devices worldwide during a line of years.

With some of the wiring on the photos I have seen I question the longevity of the unit. And I don't really think the idea of sending a unit back and forth accost the ocean to get it repaired is something I want to go through.

I think that if our devices have stopped or flamed - this fact would be presented here (and in other places) immediately (before our first posts here even since in July 2005). However all we can see here statements of real owners our gear which are only customers, not endoursers (we not work with any endoursers due to personal opinion, and will work never. It ` s not effective in hi-end).

Meanwhile,years ago we sent device to Washington. During transportation this device got very big kick....I do not know..in the jet or airport of departure / arriving,custom houses,by worker at the uploading/downloading. But power torroidal trafo was torn off from 5mm boltstike , and this bolt had bend on 30 degree!!! . Two switches destroyed, few wires was torn off also,couple PSU capasitors declined (trafo has 2 kg weight yet). But main board,all tubes and and wires around main board was not damaged. I should to point,that we install tubes into sockets with fixing by spring index always (soviet military). And I have a sureness, tubes in 8 devices from 10, with usual gentle ceramic or plastic sockets (without index) will have a fall out of sockets during transportation. We repaired this device of course...but this device had way from Kiev to Washington and around,to Washington again,and to LA in summer~40000km.All tubes(and device in all) in good condition yet on today in studio of very good musician,producer and guy

we will continue comments for all of course.....now coffee break

[not_so_new]

Hi HCL (what is your name by the way, seems strange to call you "HandCrafted Lab")

Originally Posted by HandCrafted Lab

Wow, wow,wow....guys...........


Sorry for the our non instant replies...we have in Ukraine here few after new year days still,it`s main holidays,but we continued work today already. And we can see not joking debates here meanwhile.

No problems man, Flute and I shared a PM or two and I think we are on the same page.. ya know?

Well, let to define few important moments now.Each from us is musician, engineer,producer,studioowner..I.e we are people who is occupied by intelligent work in main, and first attribute of any famous big intellectual in past is the loyalty,tolerance for another opinion and friendly tone in communication. Nevertheless,it not was obstructed for these people to perform a lot of great things,discoveries due to wide point of view, but cold nous,study of experience of another peoples,and of right analysing of events,actions,important thing.

Lost me there, sorry.

How we can sight from life of each from us - than people is more old (i.e - educated,professional,mild,with big life experience) - than less radical in opinions,conclusions...whereas know real DEPTH of this or this question....opposite of young people, which know all(on they opinion) and like to perform quickest conclusion in radical,aggressive way sometimes,calling smiles of old people (with count of the fast overpast youth also..pity ).

Now that I get.. good line.. I might just quote that.

Therefore we we call all for loyalty and tolerance concerning to each other, I.e. to be the professional people, engaged intellectual work, and thus showing high standards in the dialogue, inherent in intellectuals. And except for it.... New Year...... Fine mood..... On what all of us is congratulated sincerelythumbsup

Ye, we know,of course. But we placed these big size pics for it. Probably, an our little pity due to other pics,where wiring is more clear (see above...di-box,channel strip). But each can see indoor of devices(btw., not each manufacturer open device top for overall review.But we can, and our devices will be opened always, before bidding and purchasing). And we shall try that devices became better and better

Good policy. On the other hand HCL, you understand that people can be put off by something they preceive is going to have potential problems right?

With all the great gear on the market today could you see a reason why someone might go with another manufacturer whos gear seems to have less chance of breaking down?

But Michael....I know a huge amount of people(incl. stellar persons) worldwide, which have a 100-200 post for 2-3 years here(and at the TapeOp etc, or without any post anywhere even ), but who is very, very professional musicians, studioowners,producers,engineers. These people is very occupied by studio work,studiosessions around o`clock,tours and appear here,when decide to refresh device park,study,sell old and buy new/newest gear. Meanwhile, studiosets of these people costs million dollars often. We asks often of our clients to send to us audiosamples from the our gear,but customers not have a time often for it due to big busyness. We understand they,whereas we is very busy also by manufacture (and how musician also) and we have 120 post now during 1,5 year here...though we are manufacturing and supplying devices worldwide during a line of years.

I don't want you to think that I care about post count, that does not mean anything to me with two exceptions.

1) When someone that I have seen around here for years says that they like something that means they like it. That does not mean I will like it but I know that they don't have an agenda.

2) When someone with a low post count has posted nothing but high praise about a single product, isn't that suspicious? I am not saying that YOU would do this but some manufactures have been known to post threads about their own products to drum up business.

When the day comes that Andy Wallace shows up with with a post count of 2 I will listen to ever word he has to say but when an anonymous someone posts I am not going to believe them just because they show up here... right?

I am not knocking your product or you, you seem like a good guy.

I think that if our devices have stopped or flamed - this fact would be presented here (and in other places) immediately (before our first posts here even since in July 2005). However all we can see here statements of real owners our gear which are only customers, not endoursers (we not work with any endoursers due to personal opinion, and will work never. It ` s not effective in hi-end).

Meanwhile,years ago we sent device to Washington. During transportation this device got very big kick....I do not know..in the jet or airport of departure / arriving,custom houses,by worker at the uploading/downloading. But power torroidal trafo was torn off from 5mm boltstike , and this bolt had bend on 30 degree!!! . Two switches destroyed, few wires was torn off also,couple PSU capasitors declined (trafo has 2 kg weight yet). But main board,all tubes and and wires around main board was not damaged. I should to point,that we install tubes into sockets with fixing by spring index always (soviet military). And I have a sureness, tubes in 8 devices from 10, with usual gentle ceramic or plastic sockets (without index) will have a fall out of sockets during transportation. We repaired this device of course...but this device had way from Kiev to Washington and around,to Washington again,and to LA in summer~40000km.All tubes(and device in all) in good condition yet on today in studio of very good musician,producer and guy

we will continue comments for all of course.....now coffee break

That is good to hear!

Good talking to you man. As I said, I would be interested in getting a compressor at some point if you could send me photos of the EXACT unit I would receive that showed a better and cleaner build. Are you willing to do that?

Thanks again.

[azzzy]

I thought I'd chime in here. Usually I post on harmony-central (and I've been a member there for several years even though my post count is still under a thousand). I mostly post about guitar gear. At one point when I was looking into buying a decent mic pre and did not receive enough feedback on harmony-central, I found GS. My first couple of posts were general questions about mic pres. Then I got really interested in Manley and my question was specifically about a Manley Mono pre. Then somebody suggested HCL. I already had the Manley but I also had more than one mic, so I figured at that price and with extremely positive reviews from the owners chances are I wouldn't regret buying an HCL pre. I bought it and have stopped using the Manley all together. Since then my posts on here were about HCL. Because that's what I own and that's what I know.

Now, I'm not going to claim that I have done extensive comparison between various pres. I don't have neither resources for that kind of thing nor time. But one thing I know is after I recorded with the HCL Affinity I could listen to my vocals and actually like them for the first time! There are clips, if anybody is interested. I am not the greatest singer but the Affinity made my singing sound very "studio-ready".

About reliability. Nothing is eternal. Even the world will end at one point. As for gear, just because something looks perfect does not guarantee flawless operation and vise versa. Mesa/Boogie has a great reputation for reliability and in 5 years I have never had a problem with my Rect-O-Verb combo (my main gigging amp for those 5 years). However my Dual Rectifier has been in the shop twice already and I barely used it (too loud). My Affinity gets turned on quite often (almost daily) since I play bass through it. I've had it for almost a year now and so far no issues (knock on wood).

A lot of what HCL uses was developed as proprietary Soviet military technology. Some of Soviet weapons may have seemed crude and simple in comparison with their Western counterparts but they worked just as well (if not better), and one thing they had going for them was superb reliability. You could land a MiG on its belly and have it back in the sky within minutes! Well, those MiGs had the same tubes (and probably the same methods of wiring) as HCL gear.

[flute player]

Originally Posted by azzzy

I thought I'd chime in here. Usually I post on harmony-central (and I've been a member there for several years even though my post count is still under a thousand). I mostly post about guitar gear. At one point when I was looking into buying a decent mic pre and did not receive enough feedback on harmony-central, I found GS. My first couple of posts were general questions about mic pres. Then I got really interested in Manley and my question was specifically about a Manley Mono pre. Then somebody suggested HCL. I already had the Manley but I also had more than one mic, so I figured at that price and with extremely positive reviews from the owners chances are I wouldn't regret buying an HCL pre. I bought it and have stopped using the Manley all together. Since then my posts on here were about HCL. Because that's what I own and that's what I know.

Now, I'm not going to claim that I have done extensive comparison between various pres. I don't have neither resources for that kind of thing nor time. But one thing I know is after I recorded with the HCL Affinity I could listen to my vocals and actually like them for the first time! There are clips, if anybody is interested. I am not the greatest singer but the Affinity made my singing sound very "studio-ready".

About reliability. Nothing is eternal. Even the world will end at one point. As for gear, just because something looks perfect does not guarantee flawless operation and vise versa. Mesa/Boogie has a great reputation for reliability and in 5 years I have never had a problem with my Rect-O-Verb combo (my main gigging amp for those 5 years). However my Dual Rectifier has been in the shop twice already and I barely used it (too loud). My Affinity gets turned on quite often (almost daily) since I play bass through it. I've had it for almost a year now and so far no issues (knock on wood).

A lot of what HCL uses was developed as proprietary Soviet military technology. Some of Soviet weapons may have seemed crude and simple in comparison with their Western counterparts but they worked just as well (if not better), and one thing they had going for them was superb reliability. You could land a MiG on its belly and have it back in the sky within minutes! Well, those MiGs had the same tubes (and probably the same methods of wiring) as HCL gear.

Great post,
One of my reactions of the HCL gear was also that it colours my sound the most in the lowest and mid frequencies.
So I am glad to see that someone uses it for base too.
About the reliability it is always a question with hand build, but that is something we just have to deal with. And as you have read everybody has it's own meaning about this. But you can also have a serial product from any trade mark that bursts in the first month. I believe that the people at HCL ( for so far as I know ) never and ever sell things that are not reliable.

[HandCrafted Lab]

Originally Posted by jaguarmusicboy

After all, spontaneous combustion is for drummers!

But I`m guitar player&keyboardist ...thumbsup

Final two cents: HCL should be grateful for this feedback. We all learn from this forum, that's why we're here. What's been suggested is not difficult or expensive and if incorporated, it will greatly improve both the image and sales of their products.

Ye, of course. We agree with many things about consumers point of view,though as a developers we can guarantee safety of devices due to many,many tests around o`clock in our laboratory/studio and in studios of our old/oldest clients during line of years. They not had flammable cases never. Therefore we placed this big pictures without any doubt,as usually. Meanwhile,other devices was performed by other type of wire,and has more clear wiring due to it.I.e it was wrong to say,that we ignore clear wiring...no, of course. But we perform devices with reasonable fanatism concerning of it, considering sounding as main task yet...and how you can see at these pics -

http: // www.papa-movie.com/Di-Box_Top_2_2048.jpg

http: // www.papa-movie.com/VF_top_1843.jpg

(and others, see above post #13)


we can perform wiring clear enough.But it`s consumers point of view yet - and we not debate with it, certainly. It mean to debate with own success.

Meanwhile we perform now summator for flute player, and this device will be performed without PCB(only for VU-meters circiut and PSU) 3U rack summator+2U separate PSU I.e point to point at the metal chassis,with ceramic tube sockets,with aluminium cap at the tubes. I hope, wiring in this summator will pleasure from all points of view....for us how developers,and for consumers also,of course. And gift for flute player. Including sounding,naturally.

And for mrbowes, which ordered just now leveller. Device will performed at the 3mm thick PCB(how usually,btw not each manufacturer apply PCBs of such quality) It will BLACK PCB evidently. It`s sexy enough

As usually, big pics of these devices we shall place at the our web-site soon, I think during 2-4 weeks.

Happy New Year All!

Ye thanx, He-he...We join!!

[mrbowes]

Albert,

Thanks for the update - I'm very much looking forward to receiving the Leveller. Keep us posted with any updates.

All the best,

Josh

[macr0w]

Originally Posted by jaguarmusicboy

After all, spontaneous combustion is for drummers!

Yes It Is!

[Blacky]

Originally Posted by flute player

He He finally someone serious,
Well I use and gonne the solution at the end as the leveler of the final mix.
I have made a little mastering section were it is in line with a Drawmer 1961 tube EQ.
I posses also a drawmer mercenairy edition comp but with the solution you can add the warmth to your final mix.
The warmth of the sound in my opinion is about the same as Tube Tech.
But it can colour also to much like a Manley sometimes does.
The most warm sound you find in the low and mid.
So I use it for bass line also, allthough I own a boiler comp form rich farm and that sound very good for base and drums too.
Again saying it without commercial perspectives it has realy an amazing quality.
It is an easy to handle device with clear meters and knobs on it.

HI flute player!
I'm interested here on the "Solutions S2"
What happens with the "Release Time 0,06sec.for 50% rel.; 0,5sec. for full "release" is it fast enough for mastering? I think i get the fastest attack for 50% on ratio, can't see knobs here for attack/release (La2a style).
Can you explain me how do work? Maybe a little bit more for master sounds.
Thanks for reply
Robert

[frans]

The short version: HCL is good value for the money. The frontplate of my Manley mic/eq 500 combo looks more impressive, okay. Will I sell the Manley? Over my dead body. Will I sell the HCL? No. Will I buy more gear? Hey, it's Gearslutz!!! Will some of it be built by HCL? Yes. So who cares if YOU decide to buy gear not at HCL? I don't. Albert aka Mr. HCL has enough work without you.

I am not Andy Wallace but I like my HCL micpre and i won't post clips, because - yawn - I am too lazy. Let me explain what I like about tube gear: First I like the stuff because of it's behaviour with transients and the dynamic range. GOOD tube gear has a sort of "airbag" which eats peaks - if you push the pre enough, it will leave less work for your compressor or mastering engineer. To say it with the words of M Stavrou (the book "mixing with your mind") Less voltage, more illusion. This peak-eating is colored with k2 and some k3, depends on the topology. Every topology does this in a way, discrete transistor designs, OP-amps, etc.etc. but every topology has a different coloring, different k2/k3/k4/k5 and a differently sized airbag. For what I do I DON'T WANT superclean accurate transients - no orchestral recordings in HIFI here (not a very good comparison, btw.) But with the right pre (and matching gain) downsized transients SOUND like the transients are all there.
So there again: good tube gear should not have a unique "sound", it should just do what it does very good. And if you think Albert's english is bad, let me hear your "Ukrainian" - hohoho!

[zak7]

Hi!! I heard the audio clips of HCL and really sounds interesting and good!!
But let me tell you something!!

I think the issue that JaguarmusicBoy pointed : "the proximity of wires to the heat generating tubes should be a MAJOR concern to the builders especially since only a little extra care in the design and fabrication of these products would eliminate the potential for major shorts and even a possible fire hazard."
were I the manufacturer, I'd be going back to the designer/fabricators and demanding they implement rapid changes to their design and construction process to improve the safety and longevity of the product.

Also HCL units cost anything from $1200 and up...well I really don't think its a bargain....comon guys!!!....check the wiring, the quality of the rack, the finishing, the buttons, the paint, the logo printing!!
If you compare stuff like groove tubes Langevin Dual mono mic Pre: $1200, Manley Dual Mic Pre $2150, Sebatron gear from $1000 and other brands you can consider that the price ogf HCL is not a bargain !!
Yes they can say A,B,C,D cost are!!!!! I understand....but lets face it: HCL need to work on that area and better wiring, buttons, switches, paint and enclosure will not cost more than $200 bucks!! Ithink you should eat $100 and charge maybe $100 more so then we can have a great unit with awesome sound, look, and presentation.....that units look like an advanced DIY project ..not like a professional gear from a boutique audio company ready for a market.

Well my point is that I don't think that HCL products are a great value as some people said considering the build quality and the look and finishing of their products!1 I am not talking here about sound quality..again I think sound good! ...but don't you think Manley, Groove Tubes, Langevin, Sebatron and others can not be as good o better for the same price o maybe just some few hundreds more? in some cases would cost the same!
But even if would cost just few hundreds more you buy great sounds and great build quality, service, representatives in all USA and other countries and of course a better resale value!!

I think in order to trade the lack of service and representation , and the wait ...I think you should build a product that looks more professional and have a better wiring...that looks safe!!

So Please Mr HCL I ask you to consider re checking your wiring and the finishing of your products..Honestly they look kind of not finished prototype and may not go with the quality and level of your sound!!!

And you dont have to put your logo name so BIG in some products ... you do not need that!

Again nothing wrong about your products.. actually I would consider buying some if that issues are addresed!!! But now I think are not a bargain at all !!!

Thanks!!!


Thanks!

[ioaudio]

Originally Posted by zak7

I think the issue that JaguarmusicBox pointed about the wiring and how close they are to hot areas that would allow some hazard is very important!

i cannot find the picture where this is shown. can you point me to it?

[frans]

This reminds me of my totally excellent Sebatron EQ/comp which i bought very cheap (it didn't work)...to solder ONE broken wire (this was in the days before Gearslutz and i bought the thing on looks alone..cough, cough)...and while I was at it I fixed some other wires with gaffa so they would not give me trouble in the future. Okay, it looked like a pre-series-model with handwriting and all but the HCL has better wiring. does this keep me from buying moremoremore Sebatron gear? No, Sirrrr!

[flute player]

Doc2.doc


So Please Mr HCL I ask you to consider re checking your wiring and the finishing of your products..Honestly they look kind of not finished prototype and may not go with the quality and level of your sound!!

Uhumm, not bad for a finished prototype ????
Well, looks good then don't you agree

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by zak7

Hi!! I heard the audio clips of HCL and really sounds interesting and good!!
But let me tell you something!!

Also HCL units cost anything from $1200 and up...well I really don't think its a bargain....comon guys!!!....check the wiring, the quality of the rack, the finishing, the buttons, the paint, the logo printing!!
If you compare stuff like groove tubes Langevin Dual mono mic Pre: $1200, Manley Dual Mic Pre $2150, Sebatron gear from $1000 and other brands you can consider that the price ogf HCL is not a bargain !!

Dude! Are you high?!! Or did you fail arithmetic in elementary school? Manley Dual Mic Pre costs $2150. HCL Affinity costs around a grand (or whatever it is now, I think $1100). Which is practically half the price of the Manley! And compared side by side, they are equally great units (although personally I prefer HCL Affinity). How is that not a bargain? Langevin is solid state, so it's not a valid comparison. I am not familiar with Sebatron, but I looked it up and their cheapest tube dual mic pre is $1340, which is still more expensive than the Affinity. Besides, just because it's got tubes in it doesn't mean it performs as well as the HCL. Any other major manufacturer's tube pre costs at least a grand per channel. Which is twice as much as HCL. At that HCL sounds as good or better than the rest (to my - and my band mates' - ears).

Originally Posted by zak7

Yes they can say A,B,C,D cost are!!!!! I understand....but lets face it: HCL need to work on that area and better wiring, buttons, switches, paint and enclosure will not cost more than $200 bucks!! Ithink you should eat $100 and charge maybe $100 more so then we can have a great unit with awesome sound, look, and presentation.....that units look like an advanced DIY project ..not like a professional gear from a boutique audio company ready for a market.

Have you seen an HCL unit up close? Are you basing your post solely on pictures? I don't know what you expect a piece of recording gear look like, but if I were presented with an Affinity and told say it was an offering from Neumann or some other well respected company, I would have totally believed it. It looks and feels very professional.

You would pay an extra $100 for an awesome look??? More power to you. 'Cause we all know how the look of your gear affects the sound. I'm fine with the way my Affinity looks. I'm sure, since all HCL stuff is hand-made one at a time, for an extra $100 Albert will paint your mic pre glowing poison green or whatever else you want. As for me, I don't care what my recording gear looks like as long as it's easy to work with and produces great sound, and I'd rather keep my $100, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by zak7

Well my point is that I don't think that HCL products are a great value as some people said considering the build quality and the look and finishing of their products!1 I am not talking here about sound quality..again I think sound good! ...but don't you think Manley, Groove Tubes, Langevin, Sebatron and others can not be as good o better for the same price o maybe just some few hundreds more?

Once again, your basic math is off. All of the major manufacturer's tube gear costs about twice as HCL, not "just a few hundreds more". Unless by "few hundreds" you mean ten hundreds. Looks are subjective. I like the way HCL looks. And I am not too crazy about your favorite Sebatrons (granted I have only seen them in pictures, but isn't that what you're basing your opinion of HCL on?)

Originally Posted by zak7

in some cases would cost the same!

Let's hear some examples.

Originally Posted by zak7

But even if would cost just few hundreds more you buy great sounds and great build quality, service, representatives in all USA and other countries and of course a better resale value!!

But you're paying twice as much for the service and representatives in the US! Is it really worth it? In the unlikely case something goes wrong with your HCL unit, it will cost you probably $40-80 to ship it to Ukraine and get it back. Which is quite a bit less than an extra grand you're paying with other companies. As for the resale value, how often do you see these sold? I have only seen one used Affinity on ebay, and I think it sold for $800. And that was back when new Affinity was around $960. I'd say that's pretty good for a resale.

Originally Posted by zak7

And you dont have to put your logo name so BIG in some products ... you do not need that!

What??? Why don't you tell Albert how to design his gear from scratch? You are clearly such an authority on aesthetics!

Originally Posted by zak7

Again nothing wrong about your products..

Really? So what was your long-winded post all about?

Originally Posted by zak7

actually I would consider buying some if that issues are addresed!!! But now I think are not a bargain at all !!!

So you're saying, if you had to pay an extra $100 for a different looking box, then it would be a bargain? I think you gotta work on your bargaining skills.

Bottom line is at the moment HCL is the best value in high-end pro recording gear. And the reason it's the best value isn't just because it costs significantly less than other companies' stuff, but because it sounds awesome, in many cases better, than gear costing twice as much. Try it for yourself. In fact, if you're in Chicago feel free to stop by and check my Affinity in person. I am hoping to get the Faust in February, and you can check it out as well. thumbsup

[C/G]

Originally Posted by zak7

I think the issue that JaguarmusicBoy pointed : "the proximity of wires to the heat generating tubes should be a MAJOR concern to the builders especially since only a little extra care in the design and fabrication of these products would eliminate the potential for major shorts and even a possible fire hazard."
were I the manufacturer, I'd be going back to the designer/fabricators and demanding they implement rapid changes to their design and construction process to improve the safety and longevity of the product.

Again, those pics are from the internals of an Inner Tube Atomic Squeezebox Compressor, and not the HCL unit.

[KingDaddyO]

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

Again, those pics are from the internals of an Inner Tube Atomic Squeezebox Compressor, and not the HCL unit.

zak7, please see post #31 at the top of this page for clarification on this important point.

[KingDaddyO]

Originally Posted by frans

>snip< ...And if you think Albert's english is bad, let me hear your "Ukrainian" - hohoho!

HA HA... good one frans

[zak7]

King daddy
jaguarmusicboz wrote ...check post#31
"2) Thank you King DaddyO and Not So New, for bringing attention to the wiring and build quality issues. The photo that King supplied the link for should - infact - instill
some caution in those of us who are thinking about purchasing gear from HCL. In particular, the proximity of wires to the heat generating tubes should be a MAJOR concern to the builders especially since only a little extra care in the design and fabrication of these products would eliminate the potential for major shorts and even a possible fire hazard. "

and Azzy!! I am not talking about looks as much as build quality....check for example of the Reality Summing Mixer
http://www.papa-movie.com/html/mixer.html I think looks cheap in the quality of the enclosure and finishing.

Also maybe $1300(with extras) to $1800 is a big difference for you...but add that extra cost of better buttons, case etc..and yes maybe will be $1500
then add the benefit of having instant comunication with a dealer here in the USA.

Anyway if you prefer to save $500 bucks I undesrtand...and I never said I would not buy a HCL... actually I said I would....but if really sounds so good don't you think the sound should be in the same level of the build quality?

and why you are so defensive? relax man I never said anything wrong about the sound of the HCL?
thanks for the offering about checking your HCL!! that is cool!!

[flute player]

Ok, I will show up again.
Let me first begin to say that the pictures from the mixer are old ones.
HCL is, as Albert has told to GS, building a summing mixer for me with a total different design.
When this device is ready perhaps he will put the pictures of it on their website.

About the remark of extra costs for a better outlook I can only say this.
You don't pay money just to drive a mercedes benz just it looks so nice.
Befor I ordered my HCL gear I read allmost every word about the quallity.
In my opinion that is the most important isue and not that it looks like the MIR.

I guess my thread has made a lot of talk about the gear.
Now let us hear it !! to shut up all those who are still sceptic.
Allthough I have started this discussion I am not able to record at this moment.
The reason for this is that I wait on a new Mac Pro. ( dual 3,0 Ghz )
So for my show you have to wait till the end of next month.
But hey, I know that those who have the gear must also have some recordings.
It may be recordings in comby with other gear as well.
In that way you can here how it combines as good as other "bigger"trade marks.

"Flute player" is Paul from The Netherlands

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by zak7

and Azzy!! I am not talking about looks as much as build quality....check for example of the Reality Summing Mixer
http://www.papa-movie.com/html/mixer.html I think looks cheap in the quality of the enclosure and finishing.

Build quality and aesthetics (looks) are two VERY different things. You're bringing the Summing Mixer as an example. There are no pictures of its insides. How can you make conclusions of the unit's build quality just by looking at its box?

As for it looking cheap to you, that's clearly subjective. I don't see anything cheap about it. In fact it looks very professional to me. And different color knobs make it easier to work with. But to each their own.

Originally Posted by zak7

Also maybe $1300(with extras) to $1800 is a big difference for you...

The Affinity is $1100, not $1300. The Manley Dual Mono Pre is over 2 grand, not $1800. Please do not distort the facts. And yes, $1000 makes a big difference to me. I could buy another Affinity with it!

Originally Posted by zak7

but add that extra cost of better buttons, case etc..and yes maybe will be $1500

What do you mean by "better buttons"? Do you want your buttons made of solid gold like Elvis' toilet? Actually there are no buttons on the Affinity. There are 5 switches. They do what they are supposed to do - switch stuff on and off. So far nothing has failed. I don't know for sure, but my guess would be they use military grade switches, and those will be the last thing to break in your equipment.

Originally Posted by zak7

then add the benefit of having instant comunication with a dealer here in the USA.

I don't think the benefit of having instant communication with a dealer in the US is worth a thousand bucks. First of all, it's not that instant. Secondly, Albert is pretty good at answering your e-mails and even talking to you on the phone (if you can fight your way through the language barrier ). Thirdly for the difference in price you can simply get an extra unit, and if one breaks down you still have another one to tie you over.

Originally Posted by zak7

Anyway if you prefer to save $500 bucks I undesrtand...

Yes, I do prefer to save money. However in this case it's closer to $1000, not $500.

Originally Posted by zak7

and I never said I would not buy a HCL... actually I said I would....but if really sounds so good don't you think the sound should be in the same level of the build quality?

Don't you think you can't really comment on the build quality until you actually have seen the unit and preferably used it? And yes, the sound does match the build quality. Or the other way around. Whatever...

Originally Posted by zak7

and why you are so defensive?

I wouldn't call my response defensive, but if you're asking me why I replied in this manner, the answer would be because you're posting about something you don't have any experience with. You distorted the facts (or didn't check them before posting) and posted your personal opinions as though they were universal truths. Sorry, I think that's wrong.

Originally Posted by zak7

relax man I never said anything wrong about the sound of the HCL?

I never said you did. But you bashed their build quality (even though you haven't had any experience with their stuff) and you said it wasn't a good value, which is not true.

Originally Posted by zak7

thanks for the offering about checking your HCL!! that is cool!!

You bet. I think more people need to know about how great HCL stuff is. I am willing to contribute to that cause.

[Allen Wrench]

Hey, which 'Paul from the Netherlands' is this?

Paul from Ijmuiden?


- ALLEN WRENCH -
international superstar

[flute player]

Originally Posted by Allen Wrench

Hey, which 'Paul from the Netherlands' is this?

Paul from Ijmuiden?


- ALLEN WRENCH -
international superstar

No I come from Leystad.
A place approx. 40 KM away form Amsterdam.
Ijmuiden is a little bit further away near the cost.
I am as famous as Dr Wrench ha, ha,

[KingDaddyO]

[QUOTE=zak7;1057912]King daddy
jaguarmusicboz wrote ...check post#31
"2) Thank you King DaddyO and Not So New, for bringing attention to the wiring and build quality issues. The photo that King supplied the link for should - infact - instill
some caution in those of us who are thinking about purchasing gear from HCL. In particular, the proximity of wires to the heat generating tubes should be a MAJOR concern to the builders especially since only a little extra care in the design and fabrication of these products would eliminate the potential for major shorts and even a possible fire hazard. "


zak...
jaguarmusicboz wrote ...check post#31 is not accurate. I wrote "check post #31". Please be careful when editing quoted posts, as inaccuracies will contribute to additional misunderstanding and unnecessary follow-up responses.

In reponse to your 'quoting' me above, I don't see what your point is. It appears that you are misinterpreting post #31. Post #31 was written specifically to clarify the impression, that jaguarmusicboy was mistaking the IAAS picture for an HCL picture.

[musical5]

Does anyone happen to know the U.S. price on the LA2A comp?

Thx

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by musical5

Does anyone happen to know the U.S. price on the LA2A comp?

Thx

I don't see how that's relevant to this thread but here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=re...edco8gCpz1SJ3g

[HandCrafted Lab]

Originally Posted by frans

...my Manley mic/eq 500 combo looks more impressive, okay. Will I sell the Manley? Over my dead body. Will I sell the HCL? No. Will I buy more gear? Hey, it's Gearslutz!!! Will some of it be built by HCL? Yes.

I should to point,that our main customers is people who buy rare(very rare) and used hi-end stuff. These devices has lamentable condition sometimes,wiring as well....since 60-80th...What for? if a lot of modern well-favoured devices are presented today on the market?

Originally Posted by frans

...So who cares if YOU decide to buy gear not at HCL? I don't. Albert aka Mr. HCL has enough work without you.

Ye. And during several years already,btw for old/oldest customers also. From 1 Jan a line of newest orders.Frans, you are right as always. I trust you because many your forecasts have come true.

Originally Posted by frans

... Every topology does this in a way, discrete transistor designs, OP-amps, etc.etc. but every topology has a different coloring, different k2/k3/k4/k5 and a differently sized airbag..

Full truly...

Originally Posted by frans

... So there again: good tube gear should not have a unique "sound", it should just do what it does very good.

But it`s main features of good device.....In other words - it`s unique sounding

Originally Posted by frans

... And if you think Albert's english is bad, let me hear your "Ukrainian" - hohoho!

Ye,and deutsch also...but device making&music is more important tasks.Though,if to be honest bad english did not interfere dialogue with any customer never.

Originally Posted by ioaudio

hey albert (and the rest of hcl)
you build great looking stuff, i like your approach! i also like your kind of documentation, showing pics from the inside of your units, which looks very professional.
good luck with your business!

-max

Thanx, Max We place big pics of interior always....In other case we would not discuss these films now. From our experience during many years(and me how musician as well) - it seems to me that Max is man who record and/or compose music really. But we did not send device Max before.

Originally Posted by mrbowes

Albert,

Thanks for the update - I'm very much looking forward to receiving the Leveller. Keep us posted with any updates.

All the best,

Josh

Josh, we start preparation for device building. I will put here some pics from assembling of your device. Thus device assembling in on-line

Originally Posted by zak7

Hi!! I heard the audio clips of HCL and really sounds interesting and good!!

Thanx

Originally Posted by zak7

But let me tell you something!!

I think the issue that JaguarmusicBoy pointed : "the proximity of wires to the heat generating tubes should be a MAJOR concern to the builders especially since only a little extra care in the design and fabrication of these products would eliminate the potential for major shorts and even a possible fire hazard."
were I the manufacturer, I'd be going back to the designer/fabricators and demanding they implement rapid changes to their design and construction process to improve the safety and longevity of the product.

You know.... Some our friends and colleagues/customers bring/send their hi-end devices (expensive enough sometimes) to us for repair.....except our devices....

Originally Posted by zak7

Also HCL units cost anything from $1200 and up...well I really don't think its a bargain....comon guys!!!

....check the wiring, the quality of the rack, the finishing, the buttons, the paint, the logo printing!!If you compare stuff like groove tubes Langevin Dual mono mic Pre: $1200, Manley Dual Mic Pre $2150, Sebatron gear from $1000 and other brands you can consider that the price ogf HCL is not a bargain !!

.....that units look like an advanced DIY project ..not like a professional gear

Strange.. Why we did not know about it earlier? during many years? And our clients as well,incl oldest,stellar and biggest.

Originally Posted by zak7

...not like a professional gear from a boutique audio company ready for a market.

but we not build devices for boutiques. Our main clients hate luxury boutiques evidently,as they said,and did not purchase hi-end devices from boutiques never.
We build gear for real studios,real people who is occupied by studiosessions,music making,playing around o`clock in main.

Originally Posted by zak7

Well my point is that I don't think that HCL products are a great value as some people said considering the build quality and the look and finishing of their products!1

On mine, you start to contradict to yourselves. You talk to owners of our devices - and try simultaneously convince yourself of that it cannot to be never.

Originally Posted by zak7

I am not talking here about sound quality..again I think sound good! ...but don't you think Manley, Groove Tubes, Langevin, Sebatron and others can not be as good o better for the same price o maybe just some few hundreds more? in some cases would cost the same!

So-so...
please comment to us your current device setup on today. I think,it will be interesting for all. Only absolutely fair. Many have here setups 100K $ and higher, higher.... And well understand a level of professionalism when speech comes about such things as hi-end gear. I.e - setup level in reality

Originally Posted by zak7

And you dont have to put your logo name so BIG in some products ... you do not need that!!

Well ....from wiring to painting,logo,knobs,case....

Originally Posted by zak7

Again nothing wrong about your products...Thanks!

thumbsup

Originally Posted by frans

This reminds me of my totally excellent Sebatron EQ/comp which i bought very cheap (it didn't work)...to solder ONE broken wire (this was in the days before Gearslutz and i bought the thing on looks alone..cough, cough)...and while I was at it I fixed some other wires with gaffa so they would not give me trouble in the future. Okay, it looked like a pre-series-model with handwriting and all but the HCL has better wiring.

Originally Posted by flute player

Uhumm, not bad for a finished prototype ????
Well, looks good then don't you agree

We can not contest with own customers....with oldest a fortiori...

Originally Posted by zak7

and Azzy!! I am not talking about looks as much as build quality....check for example of the Reality Summing Mixer
http://www.papa-movie.com/html/mixer.html I think looks cheap in the quality of the enclosure and finishing.

I think that Reality owners of this full tube (i.e with tubes on all inputs) mixers not think so. In particular, if companions of these Realityes is ProTools,Apogee,Prismsound.

Originally Posted by zak7

....but if really sounds so good don't you think the sound should be in the same level of the build quality?

but why you are 1 man who is contesting against of 3 real owners our devices now? in this top only,besides of others GS tops with our gear and a lot of other owners which have our gear a long/longest time? It can be answer for all members and owners,evidently. We can propose visits of our User List also.

Originally Posted by zak7

....thanks for the offering about checking your HCL!! that is cool!!

Ye,many our old clients have seen our devices the first time in studio of friends. And we like to acquaint people in such way thumbsup

[musical5]

HCL, what is the U.S. price of your compressor? Feel free to PM the info.

[HandCrafted Lab]

Originally Posted by flute player

...
But hey, I know that those who have the gear must also have some recordings.
It may be recordings in comby with other gear as well.
In that way you can here how it combines as good as other "bigger"trade marks.

Ye, Paul. Azzzy recorded several songs with Affinity late -

Originally Posted by azzzy

...Now, I'm not going to claim that I have done extensive comparison between various pres. I don't have neither resources for that kind of thing nor time. But one thing I know is after I recorded with the HCL Affinity I could listen to my vocals and actually like them for the first time! There are clips, if anybody is interested. I am not the greatest singer but the Affinity made my singing sound very "studio-ready".

These songs placed in Azzzy (Valentine Azbelle) section of our User List On our opinion is nicely enough

[AMIEL]

Mr HCL..how long takes you from taking the order to the final destination in the U.S?