Who makes the best U47 Clone?

[delcosmos]

Regarding the VF14K...

I don't care if it has a crystal tube inside or a peanut or a piece of s^&!

It works and works very well, I am the owner of a slutty vintage mic collection and btw, I don't have any endorsement or close friendship with TELE-USA.

I'm so happy that there is a solution to the lack of VF14's, 6 of my vintage microphones (U47's and U48's), each has an original VF14M and the day one dye and there were no more tubes for sale, I will be happy to know that there is a solution out there that works and sounds good. So instead of be mad about this VF14k thing, I'm grateful with them.

I know they don't sell them separately, but I hope and I'm sure they will in a future, in the mean time at least I have one from my AE!

Yes, I have made tests swapping my original VF14m with the VF14k and the differences were minimal, it still sounds like a 1959 U47. And I prefer a VF14k replacement any day than a conversion to EF14 or any other tube.
I know this will up-set some people, I don't care, I just want to share my experience, and BTW my U47ae stands out and has won many vocal shootouts against my best microphones on certain singers.

Best regards.

Armando.

[DONNX]

Just curious,

Why is it so impossible to make a VF-14M again? Since we are talking about it, I think it would be nice to know why man can step foot on the moon, but can't make damm the VF-14M tube!

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by DONNX

Just curious,

Why is it so impossible to make a VF-14M again?

My guess is the cost of production would be so high it would not make sense as the group of potential clients is pretty small.

[dbjp]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

My guess is the cost of production would be so high it would not make sense as the group of potential clients is pretty small.

Yup, back in the day there was a big demand for the VF14's through the military so it all made sense.
Today, someone would have to spend a few million bucks for a factory plus R&D (or whatever the realistic cost is). It's very unrealistic to make that money back through mic manufacturers only.

[audioboffin]

I've used about a dozen real u47's. Of those there were some dogs, some ok ones and some real gems. Generally the clones or similar styled mics have been much more consistent than the dozen Neumanns in terms of tonality and dynamic response. I will say out of all those mics, only just one real 47 had the mojo that inspired every single singer I ever put in front of it, with no exception. None of the clones, not even the Wagner had that effect on the person in front of the mic with the cans on. Why? I can't explain, but it's a real phenomenon.

BTW the magic 47 is the only mic I have used that actually delivered recordings that sold well... whatever that means..

[Friedemann]

Originally Posted by audioboffin

Generally the clones or similar styled mics have been much more consistent than the dozen Neumanns in terms of tonality and dynamic response.

Curious about that in 40 years from now

[huarez]

So far I know, the Wagner is not available anymore due to the lack of original parts.
When you got different information or are able to purchase one second hand and don´t want it please sent me a mail

[proudestmonkey]

I'm surprised the Lawson hasn't been brought up yet. It may not be the absolute best of the bunch but it's really good quality and for the price is probably the best bang for the buck. I don't think the mics that cost twice as much are twice as better.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by proudestmonkey

I don't think the mics that cost twice as much are twice as better.

What is your measurement unit for how good is a mic? How much good is a Schoeps CMC6-MK4 with respect to an Oktava MK-012 ?

[Piedpiper]

Originally Posted by proudestmonkey

I'm surprised the Lawson hasn't been brought up yet. It may not be the absolute best of the bunch but it's really good quality and for the price is probably the best bang for the buck. I don't think the mics that cost twice as much are twice as better.

I have liked the Lawson in certain contexts, but IME, it is bright and thin relative to "The Sound". My sense is that Rick was more after his own sound than capturing the original accurately.

It occurs to me that optimal proximity can vary from mic to mic and that some of these shoot outs where they are very careful to locate the mics exactly equidistant from the source may ironically actually be skewing the comparison. Another reason why shootouts are misleading. The comparison elsewhere on GS between the new BeezNeez T-1, James, Neumann U87 and the Wunder CM7 may be a case in point where the Wunder was surprisingly thin and edgy in comparison.

[proudestmonkey]

Originally Posted by didier.brest

What is your measurement unit for how good is a mic? How much good is a Schoeps CMC6-MK4 with respect to an Oktava MK-012 ?

No specific measurement, just my opinion. I don't think the mics in the 4-5K range are 100% better than the Lawson which is about 2K if I remember correctly. And maybe I'm wrong but I think that's a fairly reasonable observation. Its no secret you pay the most for the last 5-10%.

[GYang]

Yesterday a guy came to session with his own U47, 100% full specs with original tube. I was bit nervous when he saw my Wagner from previous session and immediatelly required to put his mic without wish to try alternative.
We finished session with ELAM 251, although neither me nor singer thought it would be a ticket.
Finally, I put Wagner just for pure comparison purpose.
Guy immediatelly commented that mic is equally great as his U47 on which he was very proud. And his U47 was probably the best one I ever heard so far.
Again I got full proof that Wagner is not clone sonically speaking, it is 100% sound of the best of best U47 available and it means it is better than 60-80% of remaining U47s which for various reasons lost a bit of their initial qualities.
I would never swap Wagner47 for original vintage U47. No point.

[Piedpiper]

Originally Posted by proudestmonkey

No specific measurement, just my opinion. I don't think the mics in the 4-5K range are 100% better than the Lawson which is about 2K if I remember correctly. And maybe I'm wrong but I think that's a fairly reasonable observation. Its no secret you pay the most for the last 5-10%.

True enough, but just as with musicians, there are many decent players out there, but the great ones really bring the music alive in a way that totally eclipses the wannabes. You might say that technically they don't play 100% better than the merely good players, but that last 10% makes "all" the difference. Ultimately, there is no way to quantify these things.

[proudestmonkey]

Originally Posted by Piedpiper

True enough, but just as with musicians, there are many decent players out there, but the great ones really bring the music alive in a way that totally eclipses the wannabes. You might say that technically they don't play 100% better than the merely good players, but that last 10% makes "all" the difference. Ultimately, there is no way to quantify these things.

Agreed

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by Piedpiper

Ultimately, there is no way to quantify these things.

thumbsupThis was my point! Whether the sound improvement is worth the price difference is a personal judgement issue.

[Plush]

The majesty imparted by the FLEA 47 is irrefutable.

[proudestmonkey]

Originally Posted by didier.brest

thumbsupThis was my point! Whether the sound improvement is worth the price difference is a personal judgement issue.

maybe piedpiper said it better

[didier.brest]

Actually my point is that stating that a mic is 100 or 10% better than another one does mean something only to the author of the statement because there is no universal unit for measuring how good is a mic, not even one that would be shared by a limited community of users. It is ever questionable, at least to me, whether such a statement is relevant to his author: making a paralell between a 100% increase of the price and a much smaller improvement of the sound, as you did, implies that you have a personal measurement unit of how good it is. Then I am interested in knowing the results from your measurement on your 'how good' scale for the mics that you have tested.

[ddageek]

Plush from the way you've gushed and the mutual friends who have said if you say so it's so, as well as others who I know who have tired the Flea I tend to agree!
For ME The Lawson is the ticket Granted at this point I just have the 47fet I Purchased from Pigpen, but the Samples I've used before Give me what I want and can afford in a 47 type microphone (okay I would love to try a Thirsch M7 on the Lawson) Plus lot more
versatility The fact is If I put what you have in that one mic into a Lawson System I may not Have the authentic U47 tone but I have a versatile system, For ME this is a better investment! So for MY NEEDS this is the best 47!

THIS is what is missing from this thread, THERE IS NO BEST 47 CLONE! Each authority has his opinions on what is best, and for each those opinions are Justified! Each of us has our own Technical, Aural and budgetary biases! Each of us who has been lucky enough to have used the real thing and has experienced multiple samples has heard different mics that are in different conditions and have aged differently, thus we have heard different things and formed differing opinions on what a 47 should sound like!

Go listen to the real thing as many as you can then listen to as many clones as you can! Form your own opinion Don't just follow an "expert" you might be disappointed!

[Piedpiper]

Good points all. One thing I often miss is an emphasis on what the specific differences are, rather than which is better. Better for what? For instance, I like the Lawson for a lighter brighter sound and, from what I've heard, I would like the BeezNeez for a smoother richer fuller sound. It just depends on what you're looking for in your 47.

[carloff]

BTW Do you know you can use different heads for U47?
I have other head with U67 capsule and I think Flea is making something with sferic capsule as in M50..

[jjblair]

I have spare heads. I had a K67 installed in one at one point. It sounded fine on a Blue47, but I did not care for it on a real U47. Too sharp.

[badboymusic]

JJ,

A previous poster asked if you have heard a Wagner U47w? I too am curious as to your opinion on it.

Thanks!

[neon]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

The term "clone" doesn't really fit a lot of other U47 wannabe's .

Like the Peluso's you sell??

[neon]

Originally Posted by audioboffin

I've used about a dozen real u47's. Of those there were some dogs, some ok ones and some real gems. Generally the clones or similar styled mics have been much more consistent than the dozen Neumanns in terms of tonality and dynamic response. I will say out of all those mics, only just one real 47 had the mojo that inspired every single singer I ever put in front of it, with no exception. None of the clones, not even the Wagner had that effect on the person in front of the mic with the cans on. Why? I can't explain, but it's a real phenomenon.

BTW the magic 47 is the only mic I have used that actually delivered recordings that sold well... whatever that means..

hahahaha! I get that you love and prefer your 47, but what happens if you do not have that special one??? not more successful records or inspiration???

Dude, too much Romanticism .

[Squawk]

Originally Posted by Piedpiper

It occurs to me that optimal proximity can vary from mic to mic and that some of these shoot outs where they are very careful to locate the mics exactly equidistant from the source may ironically actually be skewing the comparison. Another reason why shootouts are misleading. The comparison elsewhere on GS between the new BeezNeez T-1, James, Neumann U87 and the Wunder CM7 may be a case in point where the Wunder was surprisingly thin and edgy in comparison.

I think you'd also find that one CM7 can sound different from the next, depending on capsule specs. My CM7/M7 is rich, full, 3d and slightly darker then most of the clips I've heard on shootouts. The one I bought was picked out from a half dozen CM7's based on the particular qualities I was looking for..

[badboymusic]

Originally Posted by huarez

So far I know, the Wagner is not available anymore due to the lack of original parts.

That is correct.
Gunter is up to around serial #192 and has enough parts to build around 200. They are all spoken for with a long waiting list, so there is no use emailing Gunter asking to buy one, the possibility of buying a new Wagner U47w has past. Second hand is the only option at this point.

[Bob the V]

Originally Posted by spicemix

Could someone please explain the relationships between Mercenary, Telefunken USA, TAB-AMI, and JJ Blair? They all seem in cahoots on one side, vs. a number of mostly European critics on the other, and make use of PSW forums which they control and other boards to hawk their wares, some of which have been revealed to be of quite dubious nature (e.g. Their infamous VF14 mockup which they won't even quote a price for).

What is under the rock that people aren't quite kicking over?

You are forbidden from using those names together in a single post as they are charter members of the Illuminati and they have dispatched a division of the Trilateral commission to waste you. Purity of Essence! Shoes for Industry!

Bob Vandiver

[George Necola]

Originally Posted by huarez

So far I know, the Wagner is not available anymore due to the lack of original parts.
When you got different information or are able to purchase one second hand and don´t want it please sent me a mail

it is..

[George Necola]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

My guess is the cost of production would be so high it would not make sense as the group of potential clients is pretty small.

that's right.. it's not possible (blueprints missing, production facility missing..).