Pendulum ES-8 or Crane Song Trakker?

[Sayat Nova]

Hello everyone,

I will be looking to get my first, "real" compressor in a few months, and I think I have it narrowed to the Trakker and the ES-8. I was just looking to see if anyone has had any experiences with either of these?

I work with mostly accoustic, folk instrument stuff (flutes, hand drums, vocals, violin, clarinette, accordian...) and am looking for something that would give me good presence & control along with some colouring posibilities? This will be my main unit for tracking/mixing (and, yes -self-mastering...) so I was hoping to find versatility, as well, if possible.

I soon will have either a Crane Song Flamingo, John Hardy M1 or an MP2-NV as my main pre, and am sure this will influence the compressor choices/recommendations from any of you.

I look foreward to your responses, and hope all is well.

Sayat Nova

sayatnova@astound.net

[Brad Blackwood]

Gotta tell you - you need to give the Pendulum OCL-2 a look as well...

[Sayat Nova]

Thank you Brad for the reply,

Any further information on why this unit comes to mind?...:-) If so, how does it compare/contrast to the other 2 I originally asked after?

Cheers,

Sayat Nova

sayatnova@astound.net

[Brad Blackwood]

I don't have much experience with the Trakker, but with it's pedigree, I'm sure it's great.

I haven't had the chance to sit down and compare them in my room, but I was blown away with the OCL-2 at AES (the most pristine of listening environments). I preferred it over the ES-8.

[NathanEldred]

I'm with Brad, consider the OCL-2 instead of the ES-8 for what you said you are doing (acoustic/purist types of music). The Trakker will be quite a bit more versatile since they are a 'swiss army knife' type of compressor (and a pair of Trakkers cost a whole lot more than an OCL-2, so it's to be expected that they can do more things), both are extremely hi-fi in tone with just a hint of euphonic character. The OCL-2 is a lot more versatile than the average Opto however, it can do a large range of attack and release times that many of the classics cannot even come close to doing. It really comes down to budget vs versatility, you'll be happy with both (I use the OCL in the Quartets and Trakkers everyday and am very pleased).

[Sayat Nova]

Hey guys,

Nathan, since you are familiar with them, how would you compare the Trakker to the OCL, then? Can the trakker do everything that the OCL can, sound-wise? I ask because I haven't had a quality tube piece of gear in my possession yet, but eventually the tube wears-out, no? Whereas the Trakker will not since it is solid-state? This is a major investment for me so longeveity matters...:-) Or is this even an issue?

Well, that last bit about the OCL begs the following: What about the Quartet (speaking of "swiss army knives"!)?...It would seem that the Quartet would make a great base to be able to work in a John Hardy or a Flamingo to vary colour/presence as compliment/option to the tube pre in the Quartet. No?


Thank you both for your responses,

Sayat Nova

sayatnova@astound.net

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by Sayat Nova
Hey guys,

Nathan, since you are familiar with them, how would you compare the Trakker to the OCL, then? Can the trakker do everything that the OCL can, sound-wise?

Sort of. They do have different tones, although they are not in different "camps". The Trakker can do just about anything, except get extremely aggressive (you'll need a Distressor for that). It has a large variety of attack times, from extremely fast (in microseconds) to subtle shades of different tones depending on which of the four settings you use. It also emulates different types of compressor reaction times, like a Delta Mu compressor, Opto, SSL-ish VCA, etc. Again, this is the time variations more than the tones, although it's not just one generic tone, they are distinctive. With the Pendulum it's like a hi-fi LA-2a on steroids. It does a whole slew of Opto emulations and manual attack and release times (it's the fastest Opto on the market @ 1ms attack capability). Also, if you drive the input of the compressor (ie with the output of the preamp or other line level device before it), being a tube device it will generate more harmonic information.

I ask because I haven't had a quality tube piece of gear in my possession yet, but eventually the tube wears-out, no? Whereas the Trakker will not since it is solid-state? This is a major investment for me so longeveity matters...:-) Or is this even an issue?

Yes, it wears out...everything does though. It could be literally 40 years before you have to replace the tube before it wears out with moderate usage and kid glove care. But even if you want to be anal about it, were talking about $50 or so every 5-6 years under heavy usage.

Well, that last bit about the OCL begs the following: What about the Quartet (speaking of "swiss army knives"!)?...It would seem that the Quartet would make a great base to be able to work in a John Hardy or a Flamingo to vary colour/presence as compliment/option to the tube pre in the Quartet. No?

The Quartet is a wonderful piece. The MDP-1 preamp (mono version in the Quartet) is huge sounding, the EQ is exclusive to that piece (I wish Greg would put that EQ in a stereo box), it has the OCL-2 (mono) comp, and a De-esser that works better than any other De-esser that I've ever used (saved my butt a few times with singers that need a dentist). If you don't have a problem with a mono signal path, then the Quartet is incredible. A pair of Quartet's would be a big solution to a lot of problems and could cover many applications, as it has the ability to be quite pristine, or you can push the input a bit for a slightly more ballzy tone. You may not need anything else if you don't need more than two channels at any one given time.

[Sayat Nova]

Nathan,

Again, I thank you. Well, it seems that the way to go would be to get a pair of quartets as my "base", and then add flavours of mic pres to that? I am extremely good with my gear and can handle the 60.00$ or so in a few years! Good to know.

One more question: Is the OCL compressor on the Quartet flexible enough to allow different mic pres to have their individual colour and tone show through? I.E: can it be made to be transparant enough to let the differences in a John Hardy, or a Flamingo show through?

Thank you.


PS: How do you feel abput the pres in the Quartet? What other pres would you feel would compliment it, if any?

Sayat Nova

sayatnova@astound.net

[CV7]

Hey Nathan, curious as to why you don't carry Manley? obviously the Vari-Mu would be out of his price range. I second the Pendulum OCL, but the Trakkers may be something for future growth.

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by Sayat Nova
Nathan,

Again, I thank you. Well, it seems that the way to go would be to get a pair of quartets as my "base", and then add flavours of mic pres to that?

You're very welcome, happy to help. "Flavours" being the key word, if you need other preamps in addition to the Quartets (which are quite versatile), you may want something with just a tinge more character even yet. Having mostly all clean-ish seems redundent, but you may need that too. The Great River 2NV has the ability to go pretty clean, to rough and bigger than real. It works incredibly for low frequency sources also (like jembe, upright bass, digeridoo, organ, etc). Any quality preamp will work in any application, but having different colors in your sonic "pallette" makes life a lot easier.

One more question: Is the OCL compressor on the Quartet flexible enough to allow different mic pres to have their individual colour and tone show through? I.E: can it be made to be transparant enough to let the differences in a John Hardy, or a Flamingo show through?

It's flexible, and doesn't mask the character of what comes before it. It's a very natural sounding compressor, it adds just a little of that certain something, but it's subtle.

Thank you.


PS: How do you feel abput the pres in the Quartet? What other pres would you feel would compliment it, if any?

They're some of the sweetest I own. See above.

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by CV7
Hey Nathan, curious as to why you don't carry Manley? obviously the Vari-Mu would be out of his price range. I second the Pendulum OCL, but the Trakkers may be something for future growth.

Unfortunately we were told no by the manufacturer, maybe one day....

[Sayat Nova]

Actually, I also have the MP2-NV on my list, as well, and for the same reasons as you give. That's a bit confirming.

Cheers,

Sayat Nova

sayatnova@astound.net

[PRS1JAZZ]

Call me freaky but I LOVE the DISTRESSORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FRICKIN UNREAL!

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by Sayat Nova
I am extremely good with my gear and can handle the 60.00$ or so in a few years! Good to know.

Figure on replacing the tubes with every like 10-15,000 hours of use... in a 4,000 hour a year commercial facility... that's like every 3 or 4 years (like changing the oil in your car... you let it go a little longer than it should most of the time)... in a "home" facility... once a decade oughtta do it.

One more question: Is the OCL compressor on the Quartet flexible enough to allow different mic pres to have their individual colour and tone show through?

The OCL compressor on the Quartet is flexible enough to do damn near anything... that's one of the cool things about it.

If you have a copy of the latest "Tape Op", there is an article with Greg Gualtieri, Pendulum's chief cook and bottle washer, that should give you a bit deeper look into the design philosphy behind the Pendulum Audio product.

The OCL came about when Greg designed his own opto attenuator that performed like no other opto-attenuator on the planet. Contrary to popular myth, it was never intended to be an LA-2A on steroids [nor any other altering/enhancement chemical], it was designed to be an OCL-2... which is indeed a damn cool box.

The version of the OCL-2 in the Quartet can work absolutely wonderfully with any mic amp. One of the coolest things about the Quartet is that each and every section of the quartet can be used independently. For instance, you can use the mic pre on a kik drum while you're using the EQ on a guitar and the dynamics section on a vocal... all with zero cross talk. The De-esser is locked into working with the compressor... so you can only separate 3 of the 4 sections.

On a personal level, in many applications, especially 2 buss and if I'm only using one compressor on vocals... I prefer the ES-8 [which is why you'll find and ES-8 in the "Quartet II (Mercenary Edition)"] While the OCL-2 does have the ability to grab faster than any optical based compressor on the market, it is still a bit limited in what it can and can't do by the physics of an opto gain reduction cell.

On a functional level, I have found the ES-8 to be a tad more versatile... on a sonic level, I have almost always prefered to richness of remote shutoff tube compressors to the tone of optical based compressors... could be a personal thing.

A side note to CV7... the Manley "Variable MU" [circle R trademark registration symbol here]... actually doesn't work on the Variable MU principle [which was how they were able to trademark the words "Variable MU"... they weren't describing how the unit worked... this forced units that do work on the Variable MU principle to describe their method of operation in other ways... Pendulum chose to describe the function of the ES-8 as "Delta MU" as "Delta" is the greek symbol for 'change' (variable).

The Manley Labs "Variable MU" compressor really has little of the clarity and detail that can be found in the ES-8. The low end on the Manley units really turns into mush very easily with those units... a region of the audio spectrum that I'm very sensitive to keep clear and opulent sounding... as opposed to mushy and indistinct.

While I have found the Manley product absolutely useless for my applications on bass and 2 mix [though a little dab of it... like 1db of GR or less has worked at times in mastering], it kinda works OK on some vocal tracks, and will often work very nicely as a parallel drum buss compressor within the context of one of my mixes. The one I used to have had a custom "lateral/vertical" matrix installed on the unit... which helped with some rather neat effects at times... but frankly, when I found the ES-8 the Manley product [even though it was serial #666, had the custom matrix, and a black and gold "color scream", with groovy custom red knobs] was made redundant.

Many of Manley's products, like the Massive Passive, the 16x 2 mixers, and the SLAM! are great and while we keep the line... but things like the 'Variable MU', and the Manley "Opto" have quite lost their lustre since we met Pendulum.

[planet red]

The place I normally master at has a ton of pendulum gear, including the OCL and the vari mu comp that uses the fairchild tube.... basically the ES 8 with a different tube from what I understand.

The engineer there told me for two buss work the OCL is almost worthless. We tried it once for fun and I wasnt impressed compared to the ES 8.

[Dan-O]

I'll go with Brad and Nathan. The OCL-2 is an outstanding performer on anything. It gets a routine workout here.

Dan-O

[DrC:Drive]

The ES8 is an exceptional piece of gear. It works well in tracking vocals particularly if the signal goes first through one channel on fast setting and then again through the second channel, adjusting to taste. Where it has really shone for me is in mixing using, it on a submix of drums which are then blended back with the original tracks. I mix in Protools, and its the one factor I have noticed that really improves my drum sounds and gives the overall mix a hi end sheen and a euphonic punchy character. I have been really happy with these "inthe box mixes". I have a Trakker which is also great, but the ES8 wins on sheer musicality. Also Greg the designer is really helpful if you have any queries. I got mine from Mercenary at a good price after recommendation from Fletcher, and I am not disappointed, I reckon its the best single piece of equipment I, and I have tried a lot of different products!!

James Cullen