Stereo mic pre in the 2K price range... can't decide!

[philboy]

Hi guys, this is my first post.

First i must say that i'm in a situation where i can't hear the preamp before buying.

I'm looking for a great quality stereo preamp to upgrade my home studio. I will be recording acoustic instruments (mostly guitars) and also electric guitar and basses (miked cabs and DI) as well as some voice. I touch a wide variety of styles in my recordings, so i need a versatile unit.

A very important factor is that i need a pre with lots of gain (70 dB or more), but still very quiet, in order to crank up my low output dynamic MD441 (or eventually a ribbon mic) to a usable level without adding noise.

I have a small home studio and can't afford dozens of pres. I want a big sounding unit that will add punch to my tracks, but with the ability of acheiving reasonabely clean sounds as well for acoustic stuff.

My budget is around 2k.

So...

A-Designs Pacifica / MP2 ???
Great River MP-2NV ???
Chandler TG 2 ???
ADL600 ???
Vintech???
Millenia???



I just want some discussion and have your opinions and experiences.

Thanks

Phil

[cdog]

Originally Posted by philboy

Hi guys, this is my first post.

I want a big sounding unit that will add punch to my tracks, but with the ability of acheiving reasonabely clean sounds as well for acoustic stuff.

My budget is around 2k.

That sounds like the ADL600. Its got a ton of gain, some cool impedence options, and its huge sounding yet pretty clean.

[Open Sky]

Welcome to Gearslutz. Kiss your free time goodbye!

There is such a wealth of info on preamps here. Just in case you haven't yet done so, you could do a lot of poking around in previous threads and get a good sense of what pre would suit your tastes best. It's still not easy to decide, though.

Sounds like you're off to a good start with the preamps you're considering. Good luck.

[studjo]

Buzz MA 2.2 - lots of clean gain and a great sound (in the uncolored vein)



Jo

[lpkyer]

A-Designs Pacifica / MP2= polyvalent
Great River MP-2NV = boring
Chandler TG 2 = awesome. if you record rock music, it's the way to go.
ADL600 = never tried
Vintech = x73i is really nice !!!! I was highly surprised with the quality of this unit
Millenia = uber-clean.

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by philboy

A very important factor is that i need a pre with lots of gain (70 dB or more), but still very quiet, in order to crank up my low output dynamic MD441 (or eventually a ribbon mic) to a usable level without adding noise.

Buzz MA2.2 transformerless version

Clean but not sterile, and dead quiet at high gain settings.

[Protools Guy]

I love the sound of my Vintect Dual 72

[hurricaneE]

TG-2 isn't my first choice for anything BUT guitars, and I've gotten great results on both acoustic and electric. DI is rnice, too, and I don't think much of DI'ing things. I don't use it on vocals. -E

[hurricaneE]

Originally Posted by Fman

but only slightly behind anything Chandler. Don't go that way unless you want British invasion tone though. Good luck!!

Gotta correct this characterization of Chandler; I've got a TG-2 all over an alt.country record I did, and it doesn't sound anything like the British Invasion. I ran it clean and wide open, and I got a nice, big, present sound. I'd have to say it sounds American, seeing as how everyone involved was American. -E

[Tone Laborer]

polyvalent....that's exactly what I was thinking.
With just a touch of pleonasm.

[Beardhead]

What about a Mindprint DTC? It's 2 channels, a nice parallel EQ and compressor. Something nice for mixdown, too.
Claus

[philboy]

I just read a lot of threads, and the Pacifica gets lots of great reviews here. Although it seems less versatile (no impedence switching, no saturation - only a volume button) it seems it makes anything you throw in sound better. Wish i could try one. The ADL seems a nice piece of gear too, so does the Great River & Chandler.

Anyone had the chance to compare a few of these side by side?

Phil

[mdsmith64]

Originally Posted by philboy

Anyone had the chance to compare a few of these side by side?

Phil

I have both the Great River and Pacifica and have spent a lot of time comparing them side by side (search my posts for soundclips of both on distorted guitars). I have used both for both steel strung and nylon strung guitars and for DI bass.

Originally Posted by philboy

I will be recording acoustic instruments (mostly guitars) and also electric guitar and basses (miked cabs and DI) as well as some voice. I touch a wide variety of styles in my recordings, so i need a versatile unit.

In my studio on my music the Great River wins hands down on all guitars.

Originally Posted by philboy

A very important factor is that i need a pre with lots of gain (70 dB or more), but still very quiet, in order to crank up my low output dynamic MD441 (or eventually a ribbon mic) to a usable level without adding noise.

I've tried using my Royer R121 ribbon on both the Great River and Pacifica and the Great River is my personal favorite for this mic. Plenty of gain. In fairness, I actually prefer my AEA The Ribbon Pre to either of these on acoustic instruments.

Originally Posted by philboy

I want a big sounding unit that will add punch to my tracks, but with the ability of achieving reasonably clean sounds as well for acoustic stuff.

This screams for the Great River in my opinion.

Don't take my word for it. Search my posts for clips and associated discussion. I believe you will find acoustic samples using the Great River on The Listening Sessions website as well ( http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/ ).

Best Regards,

Mike.

[yhomas]

I don't have any of these, but for regarding the Pacifica, here is a nice quote from Dan Richards:

http://studioforums.com/eve/forums/a...1931042621/p/3

Let's make sure we're using the term "versatile" the same way here. There are pres that do offer more sonic versatility, such as the Great River NV, Phoenix Audio DRS, Vipre - in that you can get a wider range of tones - from cleaner to more colored - from them. What I mean by versatile is that it works well on more applications and on more styles of music. If that's the kind of versatile you're talking about, then, yes, I'd say - and have said - that the Pacifica is the most versatile preamp on the market. If I had to walk away tomorrow and only ever use one mic preamp, my choice would be the Pacifica - with no reservations or looking back. [ Well, as long as I could bring along my LaChapell 992 EG to keep it company. ]

[Damian Taylor]

Hi man,

Check out Seventh Circle Audio too, if you don't mind doing a bit of assembly. I've just ordered a few bits from them, you get the benefit of being able to buy two or three channels for a relatively low in price, then every time you have a few hundred bucks spare you can buy another kit to add either more channels of something you like or a new channel of something you don't have. There are tons of posts on here describing their sound - and I've only just received mine and am yet to assemble them, but in terms of bang for the buck they're wonderful. Tim is very cool to deal with and the quality of the components and racking is extraordinary.

Hope this helps,

Damian

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by lpkyer

A-Designs Pacifica / MP2= polyvalent
Great River MP-2NV = boring
Chandler TG 2 = awesome. if you record rock music, it's the way to go.
ADL600 = never tried
Vintech = x73i is really nice !!!! I was highly surprised with the quality of this unit
Millenia = uber-clean.

MP-2NV is boring? Defiantly YMMV there.

I never tried a Pacifica, after all the reviews around here I think I might give one a try.

I have not tried a ADL600 either.

I have used Mellenia stuff and they are always a little too clean for my taste.

I have a 473 which is the same preamp as the x73i I believe, very nice.

The TG-2 is the cats a$$ for distorted guitars I love it.....

But of all the preamps I have ever used or that I own the MP-2NV is the one that I would not want to be without ever again. It is a do it all unit. Back down the gain and it is very clean, crank the input and lower the output it gets nice and thick, change the input impedance and you get new sounds. Really I would use lots of descriptors for the MP-2NV and boring is NOT one of them.

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by philboy

First i must say that i'm in a situation where i can't hear the preamp before buying.

Why not? All kinds of ways to arrange demos or rentals.

I'm looking for a great quality stereo preamp to upgrade my home studio. I will be recording acoustic instruments (mostly guitars) and also electric guitar and basses (miked cabs and DI) as well as some voice. I touch a wide variety of styles in my recordings, so i need a versatile unit.

Here is what you may end up doing anyway: everyone will pitch the products they own or have used. The popular choice of the day might be the one you decide to go with.

So you buy it, and put it to use. Then eventually you start to wonder whether one of those other ones might work better, or differently. hmmm.

Ok, sell the first one, and get the latest flavor that appears tasty. Compare to the reference recordings you made when you had the first one. Same? No big deal, just out the money from selling at a loss. Better? Good choice to have changed, then. Worse? Uh-oh. Gambled and lost. So try again.

After a while it might make sense to *keep* the one you have, and buy another to compare to that one. Keep rotating one until you can get some experience with a few different types. Same method works for mics, compressors, whatever. There are certainly a lot of good products on the market now, we have it good.

A very important factor is that i need a pre with lots of gain (70 dB or more), but still very quiet, in order to crank up my low output dynamic MD441 (or eventually a ribbon mic) to a usable level without adding noise.

Not always necessary. You can get perfectly good levels by running the analog equipment where it sounds good, then boosting digitally later in the mix. I record with low output mics (Sm7, R84, RE20, etc.) all the time with 50-60 dB preamps and mixers.

So, have fun with it, spend a little money as the cost of education. Buying used or trading can be good options, might not lose as much in the recycling.

Steve

[Lobotomy]

If you want a big sound I recommend A-Designs MP2. Big and warm are words I would use to describe this preamp.

Good Luck,
Andreas

[philboy]

Squeegybug, i think what you say makes very good sense. Experimentation will be the key. I'll get a first one and then when possible a second one to compare and decide which one i keep, unless i decide to keep both !

Thanks everyone !


Phil

[Jim vanBergen]

Don't knock the Portico 5012 or Aurora GTQ-Mk2. Both sound great! GTQ a high priced for your budget but SO worth the $$, Portico is small and sounds huge.

Pacifica, Great River, Chandler -- all serious, great preamps. None of the models you're considering are a BAD choice, and all we can give you is personal opinion.

Hope this helps! Let us know what you decide to do. Me, I own about 16 different TYPES of preamps, from 2-16 channels of each one. Makes for a lot of fun!

[mdsmith64]

Originally Posted by Fman

I guess I'm Devil's advocate on the Pacifica, but it just seems like the cleanest pre I've heard, and good night if you pair it up with an R122 it is amazing on acoustic guitar about 3 inches off the frets. It seems like if you want transparency, then why get a pre that is typically used to record stacks? I think the Great River is awesome, don't get me wrong, but I'm used to seeing it in another application, as in SM57 in front of Mesa Boogie pushing spls too high for ribbons to be practical. In those kind of situations I like the iron you can bring in with say a Flamingo or ME1NV, but I guess I just think there are different remedies for different folks. That seems to be consistent, and like Jim VanBergen says, they're all excellent pres, just depends on what you want.

But maybe I'm wrong on the TG2, I just recall Beatles and Pink Floyd and Rolling Stones and I think about Chandler every time and Abbey Road, blah etc. You get the idea, it's a bias I have with Chandler, but I still prefer 'em on rock to add a little bit of that somehow 'smooth' distortion to the character. For what I'm referring to I really should be posting an mp3, since jargon like "British" is pretty ambiguous.

Still, I like Pacifica, da's all I'm sayin'.

No problem. Everyone is going to hear things differently. That's why I insisted that he didn't take my word for it and was careful to point the original poster in the direction of some soundclips so he could judge for himself. Incidentally, and speaking of acoustic guitars, here is a clip of the Great River on acoustic guitar done by a Gearslut that I think is very good:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...coustic+guitar

I'm not so sure about the Great River being "typically used to record stacks", but I would be willing to say that it certainly does sound great in that application. Particularly with a dynamic mic and the impedance switch punched in.

Again, for my money and if I wanted a versatile preamp that sounded good on "recording acoustic instruments (mostly guitars) and also electric guitar and basses (miked cabs and DI) as well as some voice" I would choose the Great River.

All this being said (and as someone else has already said), Philboy is on the right track and will be just fine with any one of the preamps he is considering.

Best Regards,

Mike.

[bgc]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

...Aurora GTQ-Mk2. Both sound great! GTQ a high priced for your budget but SO worth the $$.

The GTQ is actually a tremendous deal when you factor in the eq.

[Max Gain]

My first Quality pre, I bought unheard also. It is kind of scary!! It did turn out, though and is still on my A list of gear.
I've been reading through this thread and it's not mentioned(maybe no longer the IN pre) but I would strongly recommend the Phoenix audio DRS 2. It can sound clean or as driven as you want, has lots of gain, rides beautifully in a mix and is a bullseye for your price range!!

[warhead]

The A Designs MP series might be a better fit for what Phil is asking for, big sound...essentially clean but can be pushed a bit as well. I would seriously consider the MP-2A based on what he's looking for. For some reason it's sort of an "under talked about" preamp.

War

[Museamp]

Originally Posted by philboy

Hi guys, this is my first post.



I'm looking for a great quality stereo preamp to upgrade my home studio.

My budget is around 2k.



Phil

I like the Telefunken TAB V76, Neve or API mic pres.

All pretty different but great for small studios that want a world class sound.

You should also think about a good Compressor 1176 , LA2a orig. or copy
also very different from each other but an excellent way to get a great sound at home.

Tommy Hollister

[pianoman]

FWIW, I was wrestling with a preamp decision not long ago. When I'd narrowed the list down, I was able to hear samples posted in various places by Gearslutz members. Especially if you know what it is you'll be recording, this user group is great for directing you to the audio you need to hear before making a purchasing decision. Worked for me (and thanks, GS crowd!).

[Roland]

Take a look at the Crookwood paintpot, www.crookwood.com. Has all the features you are talking about (highlevel gain etc) and is highly thought of amongst pro's, not just one of the fashionable ones around today.


Regards



Roland

[pramrod]

How about a pair of Purple Audio BIZ preamps in a 6 space API rack- you can get the 6 space api rack for like 5 clams and get the biz-s for $650 each- that leaves you 2 clams to go out and eat some nice steaks after you've tracked your shiz! the BIZ have so many available colors, plus you can expand and buy lots of different flavors to fill up your 500 series rack- how about adding a couple of API 560's and a couple of API 525's or something yummy like that- it's like an expandable trip man!!! highly recommended- biz are kicking so much ass over here, they are my goto pre's even before my v76's much of the time (though the v76's do work magic too). highly recommended!!! enjoy pram

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by bgc

The GTQ is actually a tremendous deal when you factor in the eq.

I could not agree more. I'd like at least eleven more GTQ's...maybe I can wait (and afford) an Aurora console one day. I'd love P&G faders with his summing amplifiers!

[Jeraz]

Originally Posted by warhead

The A Designs MP series might be a better fit for what Phil is asking for, big sound...essentially clean but can be pushed a bit as well. I would seriously consider the MP-2A based on what he's looking for. For some reason it's sort of an "under talked about" preamp.

War

Yeah, I was looking at this one myself the other day...was quite surprised at the versatility and bang for the buck...also like the Pacifica very much. I use the John Hardy M-1 for most stuff now, since I am just a small-time one-man operation, but am looking for something more colored and with some variation in sound for my next buy.

Best,

Mark