Apogee VS. 192's also, 8 Channel Pre's

[thedoner]

Greetings ‘Slutz!

I’m brand new on here and this is my first posting. So be gentle!
I’m putting together a recording rig for both home and location use based around a Pro Tools HD2 accel system running off a 2 Magma chassis and a Macbook Pro. I could use some advice…I’ll be recording mostly rock bands, in all their various permutations, and the occasional classical or jazz show. My first questions are regarding converters: I’m considering an Apogee front end consisting of an AD16 and a Rosetta 800 connected via X-HD cards giving me a total of 24 inputs. (I’ll be mixing in the box for starters so # of outputs isn’t a factor) Nothing against the 192’s BTW; I use them everyday at my staff gig and they sound pretty damn good… but size, weight, rack space, and portability are of major importance to me for this rig.
Sooooo…my questions are as follows
1) How do the Apogees sound compared to the 192’s?
2) Do they present any strange issues interfacing with PT such as clocking problems, latency, etc. I know PT often doesn’t play nicely with third party hardware.
3) Speaking of clocking, if I don’t need to sync to an external source (such as video) would I still need to purchase a Big Ben, or will the AD16 alone suffice? (Apogee claims that it has the same clocking technology)

My second questions are regarding Mic Pre’s
I need 24 channels, in the smallest, most portable configuration possible, so I’m looking at several 8ch. 1U units. Budget is an issue for me here so pleeeeease resist the temptation to recommend an API rack, Grace 801, UA8110 etc. Droolworthy as they may be, I simply can’t afford them right now. The absolute max I can drop for 8 channels is $2500, and I'd like to mix and match if possible for some tonal options.
I’ve been reading/ hearing very good things about the True System 8.
and mixed reviews of several others in the $1000-2500 range such Audient, RME, Presonus, Oram and Mackie. (I know, I know, I should be booted out of the High End forum for the mere mention of the “M” word…)
Anyone have any experience with these units or others in their range?
Sorry for such a long post and thanks so much (in advance) for your advice.

thedoner

[7om]

Originally Posted by thedoner

I’m brand new on here and this is my first posting.

First of all, welcome to gearslutz!

Originally Posted by thedoner

1) How do the Apogees sound compared to the 192’s?

I have not worked with the 192's. I had apogees before moving to ProTools. I did have a MOTU 2408 mkIII as well before ProTools and found the Apogees exceptional by comparison. I am very happy with their sound.

Originally Posted by thedoner

2) Do they present any strange issues interfacing with PT such as clocking problems, latency, etc. I know PT often doesn’t play nicely with third party hardware.

Not really. I have an HD1 system with a Rosetta 800 and a DA-16x. Everything works as it is supposed to. Occasionally (once or twice a month), I will boot up ProTools at the beginning of the day and get an error message that it couldn't find the hardware. I just reboot the machine and everything works without a problem. I always make sure the apogees are fully booted before turning on the computer.

Originally Posted by thedoner

3) Speaking of clocking, if I don’t need to sync to an external source (such as video) would I still need to purchase a Big Ben, or will the AD16 alone suffice? (Apogee claims that it has the same clocking technology)

The AD16x does have the same clock as the Big Ben. I have had my DA16x clock my Rosetta ever since my switch to ProTools. Works great! If you had more than these two devices, you might want to consider the Big Ben.

Sorry I can't help you with the mic pre question. The Grace, however, IS a great box. You might also look for an 8-channel Millennia on eBay. You may be able to find one in your price range, though they are also 2 rack units.

Best of luck pulling your rig together.

-Tom

[jomo1234]

I highly recommend both of the following:

JLM is rarely mentioned on gearslutz as they do not seem to have distribution in the states. I have used this pre with wonderful results. http://www.jlmaudio.com/TMP8.htm

I also heartily recommend the DAV Electronics BG No. 8. There has been plenty of feedback regarding DAV on this forum. Do a search and you will come up with a lot of info. http://www.davelectronics.com/bg8.htm


Good luck!!

[Tone Laborer]

ATI, API's parent company now, makes or used to make an 8ch, 1u pre with limiters in that range.

http://www.audiotoys.com/

[Jacek Gawlowski]

Thedoner,
I advise you to go with the 192 if you wanna stay out of troubles.
I bought Apogee in the first place,but was very pissed with so many
service issues.I finally gave up on it and ended up switching to 192.
Rosettas tend to go down very often.It is not only my experience,
but I've heard similar opinions from other users around the world.
Also,interfacing with Pro Tools is a pain on Rosetta 800.You have to
do most of the switchings manually,while 192 lets you use software
to control all I/O settings.

Soundwise,192 is more transparent and Apogee has its color which
may be pleasing sometimes.

JG

[mytek]

Originally Posted by Jacek Gawłowski

Soundwise,192 is more transparent and Apogee has its color which
may be pleasing sometimes.

JG

There is a new review of Mytek 8X192 ADDA by Dave Martin here:

http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/Active...ndowHeight=750

which compares Mytek 8X192ADDA with Protools HD card Protools HD192 converters.

Michal

[Jacek Gawlowski]

Originally Posted by mytek

There is a new review of Mytek 8X192 ADDA by Dave Martin here:

http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/Active...ndowHeight=750

which compares Mytek 8X192ADDA with Protools HD card Protools HD192 converters.

Michal

Well done Michał! Good review.
I tested your new converter in its early days and I must say I was impressed
by the DA stage.We did a DA shootout-Lavry blue,Mytek,Benchmark and Apogee.
Your converter was voted no. 1/2 in my room by most people as far as I remember.
One of the other mentioned converters failed the test pretty badly,but I will not
tell which one it was ;-)

Jacek

[kelvinchan55]

i was having the same Q.....thx for letting me know

kelvin

[structuredloud]

If it has to be REALLY compact, this one would make an AD16 smile.

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/microframe/

[Haolemon]

I think that you might be able to get 4 four channel Sytek mic pres for around $2800. They are very clean and sound great to me. That would be four rack spaces, but almost within your price range.

[drBill]

I think my preference is pretty well known. Digi software (PT) likes digi hardware. When you get to mixing and don't have ADC, you may be bummed. Also, like I've said many times, with Apogee in bed now with Apple and Logic, look out. Digi is not going to like that one bit. I'd suggest a 192 with the AD card in it. That will give you 16 inputs and a rock solid base. Then add a rosetta if you need another interface. That will give you ADC when mixing, and two different flavors when tracking. And if Digi pulls the plug, you still have the 192 and can keep rockin'. For syncronizing to video, you will need a syncronizer. I'd suggest the sync i/o.

[7om]

Originally Posted by Jacek Gaw?owski

I bought Apogee in the first place,but was very pissed with so many service issues. Rosettas tend to go down very often.It is not only my experience, but I've heard similar opinions from other users around the world.
Also,interfacing with Pro Tools is a pain on Rosetta 800.You have to do most of the switchings manually,while 192 lets you use software to control all I/O settings.

While I have never experienced any service issues at all with any of my Apogee gear (Rosetta, DA-16x and AD-16x), I do agree that manual switching on the Rosetta can be annoying. Much less so with the AD-16x/DA-16x.

[thedoner]

Originally Posted by jomo1234

I highly recommend both of the following:

JLM is rarely mentioned on gearslutz as they do not seem to have distribution in the states. I have used this pre with wonderful results. http://www.jlmaudio.com/TMP8.htm

I also heartily recommend the DAV Electronics BG No. 8. There has been plenty of feedback regarding DAV on this forum. Do a search and you will come up with a lot of info. http://www.davelectronics.com/bg8.htm


Good luck!!

Cool! Both these Pre's are new to me. I like that the JLM has DI's on all 8 channels. Did you order yours directly from them? I'll check around for info on the DAV as well.
Thanks!
TheDoner

[Museamp]

Originally Posted by thedoner

Greetings ‘Slutz!

I’m brand new on here and this is my first posting. So be gentle!


thedoner

Hi,
Get the new Apogee/Apple ensemble unit it rocks with Logic and You'll never look back to Protools again. I had the benefit of switching to logic a year ago and used it with RME AD/DA at first then had the luxury of using an AD from Weiss ADC2 into the RME AES/EBU and it is amazing of course its only 2 channel and very very expensive and the combination blew away the 192 protools system in every sonic way.
Having such a good sounding DAW gets me the chance to check out new great gear
and although I wasn't looking to change anything in my Digital part of my system I got the chance to use the Ensemble for a day and a half and I am going to sell my ultra high end Weiss.
To be honest I stopped being a fan of Apogee over 9 years ago when a chief designer left and I felt they went alittle down hill relying on his tech for the last ten years and I looked to Weiss DCS ans Crane Song. I had the early portable AD-1000 20 bit converters back in the 20 bit day and it rocked compared to just about anything of that era.
So I didn't know what to expect when I heard my beloved Apple working with Apogee.
I probably would have preferred Crane Song, Mytec, DCS, or Weiss But look out this Ensemble is amazing. You see Apple knows alittle about digital Audio and in my guess
they had a thing or to to say about this unit. We've all been waiting for a high end
front end for logic to rock protools socks off and this is it. Ensemble.

Tommy Hollister

Oh No Mr. Bill my City and State is in in my profile. I'll have to look out for the Protools Gangstas . Maybe they'll take back the hit on me from Apogee I like them again.