Gibson vs PRS?

[Whitecat]

I was like you guys once. Then I tried a Starla.

PRS have made superb strides in the last five years, mainly in the pickup department.

Through the 90s and most of the noughties I also couldn't bond with them, despite loving how they looked and felt. Couldn't get past the triple rec midwest FM radio crap and bland late-career Santana tone that seemed to be associated permanently with PRSi.

That's all changed now. My quest for a great Gibby continues (I do have one Les Paul - the original Robot!) - but I now have four PRSi at the moment. None of which even existed pre-2008.

I still find the stock Customs 'meh' - but there are a lot of sleeper models in their lineup that fly under the radar when you think about PRS in general.

Fundamentally, guitars don't have their own souls, that's something you have to bestow upon them yourself...

Anyway. Just my opinion.

[kennybro]

Have to admit, it's been a long time since I spent any time with the new ones, except for a few SE's which I kind of liked.

[FFTT]

The more I look at build quality, fit and finish, the better the Collings 290
looks with either P-90s or for more of a fine Gretsch tone, they also come
with TV Jones pickups.

The I-35s are also sweet, super high quality.

[kennybro]

I think it's pretty hard to go wrong with any Collings. 290 single pickup is one smoking guitar. If I was going to get another guitar anytime soon, it'd be the 290 DCS in TV yellow.

[pwrmac7600]

i have an early 90's Les paul standard which has original Burstbucker 1 and 2's and I also have an Early 90's PRS McCarty with stock pick ups. I Love both! I really liked and used the PRS more when I was actively playing live, because of the weight, but every time I pick up my les paul after playing my PRS I suddenly remember why I love my Les paul so much. The tone is just plain beefier and seems to have much more character. Don't get me wrong I still love my PRS, but the Paul still wins hands down.

[Roots Rock]

I have a PRS CE24 and it is a great guitar for live purposes due to the 5 way switch. I would say that it has its own sound, smooth and focused, rather than comparing it to a Les Paul OR strat. Some of the prior posts have compared it as "boring" in respect to a LP or Strat, but I would characterize it as a great tone... different... smooth and focused with a little twang in the bridge position, and a little squack in position 2 & 4.

I have a Les Paul 58 reissue which sounds amazing... big body and great crunch when playing chords with mid gain... but more limited in the sounds you can get from it. If you have other guitars (let's say a strat) a LP would be a great addition ... but would limit your sounds dramatically if its your only guitar.

That being said, my main guitar recently is a Strat with a bridge humbucker and Kinman noiseless single coil pickups. Very versatile and just fits the music I've been playing recently more than the PRS (although I still use it regularly for live).

I'll put the telecaster at the opposite end of the spectrum... tons of twang. Kind of the polar opposite of the Les Paul. I love tele's and use them to record lead lines and twangy rhythm parts.

My advice is to consider the style and versatility you need. If you are going to only have 1 guitar... I would say go with the PRS if you want more LP tone... or Strat if you want some twang (PAF humbucker in the bridge is great for higher gain). If you have other guitars and want the beef... buy an LP.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by cactus_farmer

PRS? How do they compare to Gibson (specifically the Les Paul vs Custom 24)?

Biggest difference between those two archetypes imho is that, due to the 24 fret fingerboard on the PRS, you can never get those wonderful neck pickup sounds that a Les Paul excels at. Moving the pole pieces back away from the harmonic node (antinode?) makes it impossible to get anything but an approximation of that thick jazzy LP tone on a 24-fret PRS.

I've owned a 1998 PRS CE24MT for a dozen years, and I think of it sort of the same way I do hybrid bikes: They're a compromise between, rather than the best of, their two ingrediants (mountain & road bikes, or Fenders & Gibsons). The PRS does beat the living snot out of any Fender or Gibson I've ever heard for hi-gain applications -- it's an incredible nu metal machine -- but it doesn't offer the versatility (idiosyncratic as it may be) of a good Les Paul or Telecaster.

Ideally you want all three.

[barryjohns]

Establish an action plan and over time own both. Buy used when you do. I own both, I play my Les Paul's more than any of my other guitars, but that's me. As a player I connect better with them, one in particular. I do love my PRS, as well as the ones I've sold! Nothing can get a Les Paul sound, but a les Paul it tonaly restrictive. For me it's fine!

[barryjohns]

Also, IMHO more tone comes from the hand grip and the fingers than do the guitar.

[Tag101]

Originally Posted by cactus_farmer

So what, in tonal terms makes a PRS different to a Gibson, generally?

More mids, less mids, less bass...?...etc...

Which Gibson and which PRS?? Do you think a Gibson 335 sounds like a Les paul, or a les paul like a Johnny Smith, or a Johnny Smith like a 330, or a 330 like a Super 400, or a Byrdland like an L5??

And do you think a PRS Modern eagle sounds like a hollowbody2, or a Custom 24 like a Santana, or a Santana like an Artist 3, or an Artist 3 like a semi hollow LTD? I have played and or owned many of each, so if you could be specific as to what model Gibson compared to what model PRS, I can probably give you a good comparison.




AH! Cu 24 VS L.paul! Custom 24 more upper mids, a LP more lower mids. Bottoms and Top ends very similar. The PRSs are WAY more consistent. To equal a CU24 tonally, you would have to go with a real good historic LP.

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Biggest difference between those two archetypes imho is that, due to the 24 fret fingerboard on the PRS, you can never get those wonderful neck pickup sounds that a Les Paul excels at. Moving the pole pieces back away from the harmonic node (antinode?) makes it impossible to get anything but an approximation of that thick jazzy LP tone on a 24-fret PRS.

I've owned a 1998 PRS CE24MT for a dozen years, and I think of it sort of the same way I do hybrid bikes: They're a compromise between, rather than the best of, their two ingrediants (mountain & road bikes, or Fenders & Gibsons). The PRS does beat the living snot out of any Fender or Gibson I've ever heard for hi-gain applications -- it's an incredible nu metal machine -- but it doesn't offer the versatility (idiosyncratic as it may be) of a good Les Paul or Telecaster.

Ideally you want all three.

This makes a lot of good sense. Navarro totally rocks a PRS with Janes, and I agree it does that thing well.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

My LP gets played 10X more than my Custom 22. The 22 body is nice because it's contoured and is lighter, but the LP neck fits my hands better. Also, as hard as I try, I can't get my 22 to sound exactly like a classic LP. The LP is just sweeter sounding for whatever reason.

Try an SC58 or a "Stripped" 58 if you get a chance...

The Custom 22 has a few key differences that are going to keep it slightly different from an LP. The stock pickups are one; the scale length another, and the bridge assembly is a third point that has a bigger effect than some might imagine. It's why SC245s also don't sound like LPs.

But Paul's getting pretty damn close with the '58s' ...

[Tag101]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

My LP gets played 10X more than my Custom 22. The 22 body is nice because it's contoured and is lighter, but the LP neck fits my hands better. Also, as hard as I try, I can't get my 22 to sound exactly like a classic LP. The LP is just sweeter sounding for whatever reason.

Again, this is a totally subjective call. I sold my Gibsons (Historic LPS and 335s, 339s) for the exact same reasons. My PRSs just sounded sweeter no matter what I tried.

[sam c]

I would not think players would want there LP to sound and play like a PRS or vice versa. Wouldn't need to buy others if they all sounded or felt the same. That is why they are "different" guitars.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by sam c

I would not think players would want there LP to sound and play like a PRS or vice versa. Wouldn't need to buy others if they all sounded or felt the same. That is why they are "different" guitars.

If Gibson could consistently make guitars to the quality/standard of PRS then I'd agree with you.

[Tag101]

PRS Custom 22s have some of the best cleans and milder overdriven tones you can find. The neck pup on my CU22s can sound like a huge hollowbody guitar when I want it to.

Check out the tone in this clip when I kick it in around 27 seconds in.

MP3 Player SoundClick

Same guitar on the bridge pickup doing AC DC

MP3 Player SoundClick

Same guitar doing Black Sabbath metal.

MP3 Player SoundClick

Same guitar with less overdrive, louder volume

MP3 Player SoundClick

A different setting for heavy rock: MP3 Player SoundClick

PRSs flat out kick ass.

[musicgen]

Love gibsons but their quality control lately not so good, even on their high end. I am not a big fan of PRS scale and the way they feel. I am interested in playing a PRS Starla though!

[barryjohns]

Originally Posted by Tag101

PRS Custom 22s have some of the best cleans and milder overdriven tones you can find. The neck pup on my CU22s can sound like a huge hollowbody guitar when I want it to.

Check out the tone in this clip when I kick it in around 27 seconds in.

MP3 Player SoundClick

Same guitar on the bridge pickup doing AC DC

MP3 Player SoundClick

Same guitar doing Black Sabbath metal.

MP3 Player SoundClick

Same guitar with less overdrive, louder volume

MP3 Player SoundClick

A different setting for heavy rock: MP3 Player SoundClick

PRSs flat out kick ass.

Let me start by saying nice playing. Additionally, very nice looking guitars and room.

Now on the the real comments, I guess the "But" part of the discussion. None of the OD tones in any of the clips come close to sounding like a Les Paul or an SG, not even close. Does that mean that the PRS does not sound good, no it doesn't all. If I could give you some advice, lay off the reverb, waaaaaaaaaay too wet. But again, nice playing, enjoy your beautiful guitars. I also own PRS.

[dabianzo]

Originally Posted by Jolly_Rogers

Thanks for stating the obvious. Did i say that the action was something inherent to the guitar? The setup is an artform in itself, and Gibson is not very good at it. Whatever local tech you pay to fix your Gibson is likely not as good as the fellow at PRS. I am a professional guitar tech so I am well aware that the action can be changed, and it is also why i respect PRS so much for their excellence in achieving such fine action, it is far beyond the average tech. Better action results in better sound in my experience. That being said, the setups done by the techs at PRS are superior to Gibson and most guitar shops or other people. You won't get a PRS setup from anybody except PRS. Without their setup, its not the same. Fender Custom Shop does very nice setups too.

Just plain silly...

[barryjohns]

Originally Posted by dabianzo

Just plain silly...

[emitsweet]

Originally Posted by cactus_farmer

Gibson's are much darker and Fender's are much brighter...

a guitar is brighter or darker due to the wood and the pickups not the logo

a PRS swamp ash sound like a strat because it's made out of ash. A prs custom is made out of Mahogany and maple so it traditionally sounds like a Les Paul. A PRS Mahogany Custom sounds like an SG or explorer. PRS McCarty is very Les Paul like.

If a stat has a maple top and a Mahogany back it will sound similar to a chambered Les Paul An all maple Les Paul with be bright. I had a 70s Paul that had a maple neck is was much brighter than my 60 reissue Its all about the wood and wood thickness nothing more really. A Les Paul with a single coil pickup is going to sound like thin Les Paul not a thick strat. The p90 can attest to this.

etc..

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by emitsweet

a guitar is brighter or darker due to the wood and the pickups not the logo

a PRS swamp ash sound like a strat because it's made out of ash. A prs custom is made out of Mahogany and maple so it traditionally sounds like a Les Paul. A PRS Mahogany Custom sounds like an SG or explorer. PRS McCarty is very Les Paul like.

If a stat has a maple top and a Mahogany back it will sound similar to a chambered Les Paul An all maple Les Paul with be bright. I had a 70s Paul that had a maple neck is was much brighter than my 60 reissue Its all about the wood and wood thickness nothing more really. A Les Paul with a single coil pickup is going to sound like thin Les Paul not a thick strat. The p90 can attest to this.

etc..

Don't really agree with any of this.

Woods have a very minimal effect on tone compared to pickups, scale length and hardware on electric instruments.

In fact, most Strats are made from alder. Only a handful by comparison are ash.

The reason the P90 equipped LP sounds the way it does is because of that scale length, not the wood.

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by Whitecat

Don't really agree with any of this.

Woods have a very minimal effect on tone compared to pickups, scale length and hardware on electric instruments.

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by Jolly_Rogers

...the setups done by the techs at PRS are superior to Gibson and most guitar shops or other people. You won't get a PRS setup from anybody except PRS. Without their setup, its not the same. Fender Custom Shop does very nice setups too.

Setup is a constantly moving target. More often than not, the factory setup of most guitars is wacked by the time it gets into an owner's hands. Humidity changes, strings changed, etc... (at Guitar Center, make that totally wacked).

I, and I'm sure many people on this board, can set up a PRS every bit as nicely as any tech in the PRS factory can do the job. They'll do it quicker, as they do it all day long, every day. But no magical mythical formula locked in Paul's office vault. Just get it to factory specs, and then slightly tweak it for best action on that particular instrument and to the player's preferences.

[Jeff Scott]

I'd sooner put my money into a PRS than a Gibson.

[nuthinupmysleeve]

Originally Posted by Tag101

PRSs flat out kick ass.

You like 'em so much you have like six of 'em? All with the same pickup configuration? Or is that from a music store?

[nuthinupmysleeve]

Originally Posted by Whitecat

Woods have a very minimal effect on tone compared to pickups, scale length and hardware on electric instruments.

Agreed... and it's the reason why I maintain it's not wise to spend a ton of money on a solid body electric!

[emitsweet]

Originally Posted by Whitecat

Don't really agree with any of this.

Woods have a very minimal effect on tone compared to pickups, scale length and hardware on electric instruments.

In fact, most Strats are made from alder. Only a handful by comparison are ash.

The reason the P90 equipped LP sounds the way it does is because of that scale length, not the wood.

read up mate

GuitarPlayer: All About Tonewoods

[nuthinupmysleeve]

I know I'll get flamed for this, but whatever... Don't post a link to an opinion piece as "proof." Post a link to a double blind test. Otherwise it's just simply one opinion vs. another.

My opinion on this changed when a friend recorded his guitar parts with a humbucker on an acoustic guitar, and it sounded like an electric guitar... The same, to me, as any other guitar would sound with the same pickup. Oh, and another friend had a crappy plywood guitar from sears that wouldn't play in tune until he put a new neck on it, then he added anderson pickups. It rocked. No not proof either...

[kennybro]

Woods have a very minimal effect on the tone of a solid body electric. This can be easily demonstrated. I've build quite a few solid bodies, and over a very long period of time, I've learned that the type of wood type is about the last thing I need to worry about when considering what the finished solid guitar is going to sound like.

First, pickup configuration and total electronics
Second, scale length
Third, configuration; bolt on vs. glued or neck through (even this is very minimal)

Not saying that wood is totally out of the picture, although at times it would seem so. There's also a “serendipity effect” that’s difficult or impossible to control, but I can nearly guarantee it has very little to do with wood type. It’s why two identical factory Les Pauls, cut from the same block on the same day, might sound slightly different.

Acoustic guitars are another animal all together.

I've heard plywood and aluminum Strats that sound like very nice Strats, with all of the signature sound detail you would expect (electronics, scale length, bolt neck). No article in any magazine could possibly affect what I've learned from personal experience.

And beyond all that, the player will have a huge effect on the sound of a solid guitar. Two different players can make the same guitar sound totally different, and two very different guitars can sound nearly identical in one players hands.