I do something similar to what you originally suggested.
Nice guitar -> DW Fearn DI. Output to a nice tube amp (or whatever amp) & get a sound you like in the room. Mic that with a nice mic/ pre (I use an R84 into a DW Fearn pre). Play with distance (depth) and tone controls. May have to back off on bass to get the sound in the DAW like you first heard in the room. Or, EQ at the preamp stage.
I record a DI later that I often mix in straight or with modeling for Jazz/ Blues. I send the DI output into a UA 610. I like that better than the DI on the 610 itself. If the guitar is nice, that should be nice too and the two blended sounds can really sound good.
Also important, I monitor on Vic Firth headphones. Any high quality headphone should do. They really cut out the room noise and have a LOT of detail, so I can really hear nuances of what I'm playing. No stray "ghost" notes to deal with later - I can really hear it all when tracking. Helps me keep it very clean.
I also blend 2 sounds on stage with 2 amps, so it's something I usually do.
Have had some pretty high end people comment that it's one of the smoothest guitar sounds they have ever heard.
But, what works for me now may not work for everyone and vice versa....
It's funny. I'm a guitarist who has, over the past few months, gotten into recording. I've labored over how to get a good drum sound, a good bass sound; vocals are tricky to get just right. I never even gave recording electric guitar a second thought. I just stick a 57 about an inch in front of the speaker grill and run it into a tube preamp with lots of gain and some gentle compression, and it sounds great to me. Sometimes I'll use a LDC for room ambiance.
It occurs to me that when recording electric guitar, I've almost never even bothered experimenting with mic proximity, or with using multiple mics, or with trying a different type of mic. I mean, I've tried all kinds of things when recording drums. When recording bass, I prefer a direct signal and a mic on the cab. But I guess I just got lazy when it comes to my own sound - but then again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it - right? When it comes to recording electric guitar, it just seems like it's easy to get a good sound if you've got a good guitar, a good amp, and a good player.
Just an afterthought - one thing I HAVE experimented with that can yield a thick tone, is splitting your signal and recording your part on two amps simultaneously. Not always necessary, but if ever you feel your tone is lacking dimension, you might give it a try.
I think sometimes people over complicate recording guitars. They put up too many mics and take a DI. People are afraid to commit. I say make decisions!! Think of the sound you want and keep trying things til you find it. It won't always be the same.sometimes one mic will be more then enough... Sometimes you need a second mic. I never take a DI feed cause I take the time to get the sound right. There are few instances where I take a DI.
Sometimes people put up too many mics or take a DI they ignore the amp as an instrument and don't diagnose what ain't working. My advice is get the amp sounding the way you want it in the room. Then start with one mic... Adjust til it sounds great... Add second mic if you need more dimension...adjust til it sounds great alone and with the first mic.
So much easier to mix when yiu've been sculpting the sound out as you go.
Its doing this whilst playing that I struggle with.
How accurate would it be to DI a test signal and reamp it while you get your sound?... I guess there would be no point if the DI was in any way coloured
It's true that things can be overcomplicated BUT productions are complex things for some bands and having a DI version somewhere just in case can save the day later on!
A great take but the sound won't sit in the mix (which can be done 6 months later with a different engineer and a different studio..)
Not saying it's better that way, but I do see why people like the option of reamping.
I like to try and get it right straight away and find it quite straightforward BUT a DI track costs nothing and I do it without telling the band ;-)
Not that I record bands much these days, but next time I do, I'll have a DI track...
If the cab is loaded with AlNiCos, you're not going to make them compress and sing
properly unless you push them with enough power and volume.
If they are under powered, they tend to loaf, yielding a flubby low end.
With high powered ceramic speakers like the EVM12L and The Fane Medusa,
you'll still have plenty clarity at low volumes, but these speakers also want
to be pushed hard to make them come to life.
Hi FTTT
Thanks so much fit the test.
Interesting tonal differences between the two videos. I like the 2nd one better. What would be the main difference there?
Totally understand the idea of pushing the master....how do you figure out 'that' optimum point of overdriven sound that is the best for recording? Do you have any tricks up your sleeve when you identify that sound?
In the two videos above, the amp is set exactly the same.
The difference is coming from the guitars, pickups and wood density.
John's custom built guitar clearly has more lower mid emphasis, with Fralin
Split Coils ( both HB & SC) and the main guitar and neck are built from
1 piece of wood.
The LP with original Shaw PAF's has a fatter low end, somewhat lighter mids,
and more top end.
Here I'm just testing the top end tracking with my Strat Plus,
playing a super simple ballad round.
Note the glassy top end.
Guitar is switched one notch up from the bridge PU.
Love the tone. I can understand how it sounds in a room like yours now, just by the video recording itself.
However, is there a true recording of that exact piece you did with the mics that you could share?
This is straight up through my interface AKG-D1000 on the EVM12L & Mercenary TAB SM57 on the Fane Medusa 150-C.
The Bad Cat has on board reverb, that's it.
Considering the air handler is on and the fridge is on 6 feet behind the amp in the kitchen. No noise filtering, just mics on amp this is ideal for adverse conditions
in an untreated living room.
This is straight up through my interface AKG-D1000 on the EVM12L & Mercenary TAB SM57 on the Fane Medusa 150-C.
The Bad Cat has on board reverb, that's it.
Considering the air handler is on and the fridge is on 6 feet behind the amp in the kitchen. No noise filtering, just mics on amp this is ideal for adverse conditions
in an untreated living room.
Could I ask what dB levels you had the clean vs overdriven sounds at?
What levels do you use for master as well as channel volumes?
I'm running this straight through my ProjectMixI/O using Capture in iMovie
to get audio and video together.
In this mode, I just set the interface inputs conservatively to stay green only.
Opening the finished file in Soundtrack Pro, the primary input level is -6dB
on all the takes.
To stay at the same input level in the clean channel, I turned the Bad Cat Channel 1
volume down to just shy of 10:00.
Again watching playback in Soundtrack Pro there's a peak at -2.4 and one
at -.20 but it hovers right about -6dB most of the time.
I see you mic both cones...
I'm used to find the cone that sounds better and put mics on it. Anyone doing this?
BTW as stated before source is really important. Once you get good source (good amp and pedals and a not-too-shitty guitar) you can get it with a single 57.
I see you mic both cones...
I'm used to find the cone that sounds better and put mics on it. Anyone doing this?
BTW as stated before source is really important. Once you get good source (good amp and pedals and a not-too-shitty guitar) you can get it with a single 57.
Here I'm just testing the top end tracking with my Strat Plus,
playing a super simple ballad round.
Note the glassy top end.
Guitar is switched one notch up from the bridge PU.
There's some kind of weird distortion on this clip. The other ones sound pretty good... Sounds like a pretty sweet head/cabinet combination you have there. However, with just one guy wanking on the electric guitar unaccompanied, it's hard to know how it would sound in the context of an actual song. Do you have any recordings that you have made with that particular rig that you can share?
There's some kind of weird distortion on this clip. The other ones sound pretty good... Sounds like a pretty sweet head/cabinet combination you have there. However, with just one guy wanking on the electric guitar unaccompanied, it's hard to know how it would sound in the context of an actual song. Do you have any recordings that you have made with that particular rig that you can share?
Not yet, just got the cab and extra Medusa together the day before this.
I posted this back in June just roughing out some ideas.
Not happy with the vocals, but you can hear the AXA12 & Medusa 150-C in a
rough mix.
I try different song ideas through different amps and guitars to see how I want
the guitar parts to sound.
Just camera mic here, but another study from the same song going through
my '64 Ampeg Reverberocket. Also through a 2001 Fane Axiom 12 75, similar to the
Medusa 100. Playing with an idea for the intro and root melody for the lead break.
I'm still experimenting, learning and adjusting levels as I try to capture
what I'm hearing in the room as accurately as possible.
Only by experimentation do you figure out the ideal settings for a particular project.
Here I'm tracking the Reeves Jimmy into Logic Studio with a very slight Space Designer Reverb added in post production.
I have the pre-gain cut back a bit here compared to the earlier clips and pulled the AKG on the EVM12L back a bit from the cone.
Just a ham fisted rough track to check I/O levels.
This is fine by me because it shows me where I need to tighten
up on playing accuracy.
Amazing what a difference a quality guitar/amplifier makes to a clean sound. Guess it really does all start at the beginning, right?
__________________ "The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child
"i was not looking at what it was doing, i just kept going till it sounded full." jamesyeah "Sometimes invisible are these glistening threads........" Janni Littlepage
Well it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to spend thousands on a studio,
attempting to capture quality sound, if you're going to skimp on the sound source.
You should be hearing the EVM12L in the left channel and the Fane Medusa 150-C in the right channel.
I recorded panned -40 left + 40 right according to my ProjectMix I/O display.
There is obviously lots of bleed between the two speakers coming from the cabinet.
I'm mostly impressed with the basic sound quality considering these clips were
recorded in an open, untreated living room with the air handler running full blast,
and the fridge humming away 6 feet behind the amp & cab.
I'm definitely buying another Mercenary TAB SM57 as soon as budget permits.
It captured every detail with the expanded top end response, yet the noise
rejection is remarkable in these far from ideal conditions.
I'm tempted to try out my '52 Ampex 403 Mic Pre and my DAV BG-1, but see very little need to track any hotter if the boosted signal just ends up capturing more room noise.
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