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Passive Bass Guitar strange "ripping paper sound"
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Old 25th January 2007   #1
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Passive Bass Guitar strange "ripping paper sound"

Hello all,

I'm looking for a little help fairly urgently. I'm in the middle of recording some DI'ed bass. We're DI'ing in the control room. Signal path is as follows:

Fender Jazz Bass >> Raindirk Passive DI >> Helios Pre / EQ >> Distressor >> Apogee AD16

this goes direct to digi in on 192 i/o, pro tools HD 7.1

Using Passive basses (Jazz, Precision, Mustang) we are getting a strange farting, paper ripping sound on low notes. This sound is cleaned up by rolling the tone all the way off the guitar, which is destroying the bass tone. It is not present when using an active bass (musicman stingray). All elements of the signal path have been replaced, (it is not the Helios overloading, as they are prone too). We went straight into Producer pack instrument input, changed cables, DI and have found the fault to be the guitars. I guess something is being induced or perhaps a component is overloading.

Has anyone any experience of this? Turning the guitar's volume down does not solve it.

it's getting a bit annoying, as a number of the sounds require the older, passive basses.

Thanks again for help in advance, wonderful, wonderful people...
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Old 25th January 2007   #2
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all the passive basses are experiencing this?

I've got a hard time thinking that they would all be
at fault in the exact same way, so I'd look further at
some commonality between the setups

I always switch out cords
make sure input jacks are connecting properly, that
sort of thing.

Its usually some dumb, obvious thing like that
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Old 25th January 2007   #3
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thanks mate.

I'm afraid we've changed out everything. Beginning to think it might be something electrical. Strange.

We changed out all the cables... in fact everything. The only way to get rid of it was to roll the tone of the guitar all the way "off".

feeling clueless...
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Old 25th January 2007   #4
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Also for a sanity check, do the basses make the noise when plugging into a real amp?
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Old 25th January 2007   #5
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have you tried a different DI?

sounds like you might be getting some sort of pickup loading.
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Old 26th January 2007   #6
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pickup loading? tell me more..

Myself and another engineer were talking it through and thought it sounded "electrical" or impedance related. This pickup loading sounds promising.

We have variable load on the DI. However when we tried producer pack instrument in it made the same sound. I guess this could be coincidence.

Would you mind explaining pickup loading some more? I think this may be it.

thank you...
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Old 26th January 2007   #7
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Can you please post a file of the sound you're talking about? Might be able to help if I can hear it.

Ta!
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Old 26th January 2007   #8
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kelcyx

Have you listened thru phones??
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Old 26th January 2007   #9
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I just got in from the studio (it's 0034 AM here). I can post a sound file tomorrow am. I did listen through phones, and even recorded some audio and exported it from PT to another program through different converters to listen to. I am sure the problem is on the the way in from the guitar.

As I say closing the guitar's tone control (changing the loading? I think) all the way to "0" cleans the sound up.

all this help is greatly appreciated.

The bass sounds clean and full range, however there is a phhrrrllrrr sort of ripping sound on top.. It's subtle but there. I am starting with bass player in the morning and will try through the amp.

thank you again everyone... any more ideas greatly appreciated!
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Old 26th January 2007   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthurchino View Post
pickup loading? tell me more..
The load a pickup sees makes a huge difference in sound. Usually a pickup sees the load from the guitars volume and the tone control. Under normal conditions (load is mostly resistive, like a tube amp input) it's effect is a resonant hump in the upper mids of the frequency band, somewhat like a mild parametric EQ. The load on the pickup (and the pickup, tone control, volume control and cable as well) set the frequency and gain of that hump.

This is the normal behaviour if the pickup sees is a resistive load.

Now I'm guessing: You have connected your passive bass to a DI box. If this box input is a transformer, the pickup wouldn't see a resistive but an inductive load. This could (!!) interact with the pickup in strange ways by building a resonant circuit from the cable, capacitor of the tone control and the transformer winding. Your ripping paper sound could be such a resonant oscillation.

A short sample of this sound would be usefull for diagnostic btw.

The easiest way to get rid of it is to use some kind of line driver between the passive bass and the DI box. It can be as simple as a single transistor impendance buffer or a stomp box in bypass (some of them have an impendance buffer even if turned off).

The active basses electronic does, among other things, the same. The pickup won't be affected by the load connected to the bass anymore. All it sees is the well defined load of the active "on board" EQ. Whatever you plug into the bass now effects the load of the active electronic, not the pickup.

Hope that helps.
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Old 26th January 2007   #11
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Nils,

vielen danke. Ich verstehe.

That is exactly what we have done, and yes, it is a transformer input.

We were in the ball park, and guess it was a loading thing. That makes perfect sense. You learn something new everyday.

thank you all. I will post a sound in the morning, but I think we might have cracked it. THeresonant frequency solution makes sense as it does vary with which notes are being played, although I guess the resonanace is far higher than the fundamental of the notes.

thank you all... more ideas appreciated..
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Old 26th January 2007   #12
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the SIMPLE thing is to try another DI.
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