amazing mastering experience

[blaugruen7]

i have posted this at a musician forum.
but because i am so excited i will post it at my most beloved forum, too.

at first i apologize of not being native english speaking.
please insert your babelfish.

and now back to topic.
i am still blowed away by this experience.
yesterday i visited a friend. he is working at a mastering house.
i am a saxophonist and electronic musician fiddling around with mixing my music.
i brought with me my music and at first we listened to my "master".
especially one piece sounded very wrong and i couldnt say what it is i didnt liked.
he told me, that it is loud, but i have used my software limiter way too much.
and at this point i clearly heared this.
al right.
then whe started the mix version. peaking max at -6db in cubase. there was nothing on the stereo bus, no home-mastering at all.
and it sound better then my "mastering"
very obviously.
:-)
and what he did then in 30 seconds TOTALLY BLOWED ME AWAY. and i am still working on reassembling my parts! still now 20 hours later i am impressed.
we were at the same loudness then my squashed version, but it SOUNDED BETTER THAN EVER BEFORE.
not only better.
AMAZING UN-BE-LIEV-ABLE BETTER.
there is no way for me fiddling around with any plugs and even take me 3 month time and hope to get any near this i have heared yesterday.
that was very much fun!!
for me there is no way doing a home-mastering. not even "amateur-mastering" makes any sense. i can mix it as best as i can. but then up to mastering.
its not only the icing on the cake.
its 12 more cakes.
i hope you feel my ecstasy.
yesterday i really learned my lesten. supercool.
and by the way. its really fun not only feeling some physically uumph. but actually HEARING the deepest low end. really fun. very uncommon for me.
for you gearslutz:
very nice 1.9 meters high pmc monitors. bad looking like hell, but a never heared sound and detail.
obviously much better detail and flatter bass then the b&w nautilus 801 i directly compared with my music in the second room. :-)
very nice fairman eq and compressor. the compressor makes you feel being in "kid-mode" or cartoon land. it has knobs bigger than old washing machine knobs! too funny.
and now i look around for some bucks to pay the mastering. :-)

[Empty Planet]

Don't worry about the second language thing -- though there are exceptions, most Americans barely know their own.

So cool that you had such a positive experience! It's really a treat to have your first encounter with mastering to be such a great one. It's amazing what a different set of ears can bring to a project if they genuinely know what they're doing.

I don't suppose you'd like to post a 30-second example of "before" and another of "after"?

In any case, congratulations on your new-found respect for the craft, and especially on your tunes, which sound like they've been given new life.

Cheers.

[blaugruen7]

oh yes, i would love to post some before and after examples!

but i must say, that this is a middle distant friend of mine and he invited me
to the company mastering room he works in. giving me the opportunity to listen
to my music on his very nice system.
he made it clear in the beginning, that he would not like to master
it for me for free. its not his company and equipment...
he just did a short example on one track, what he would do
with the music...
so i have no files.

to get it mastered i would have to pay 90eur/h exclusice tax. one hour per track, ten tracks to master.
that is a little bit over my budget, being a starving saxophonist/ electro-music-nerd. :-)
on the other side he was interested in my music and wanted the
mix-version to listen to.

now i am searching for a label to release the material. and its very
common that the label pays the mastering. so maybe i can come back to him somewhere later...

once again, its major fun listening on super big speakers.

[kosi]

Where did you do it ?
Calyx or Dubplates & Mastering ?
Can you post some audio files ?

[syra]

Originally Posted by blaugruen7

and what he did then in 30 seconds TOTALLY BLOWED ME AWAY. and i am still working on reassembling my parts! still now 20 hours later i am impressed.
we were at the same loudness then my squashed version, but it SOUNDED BETTER THAN EVER BEFORE.
not only better.

...It sounds like he got most of the loudness by pushing the A/D...the reason you have lots of trouble getting this sound with your plugins is that it can't be done without outboard...

[blaugruen7]

Originally Posted by syra

...It sounds like he got most of the loudness by pushing the A/D...the reason you have lots of trouble getting this sound with your plugins is that it can't be done without outboard...

that is the same he told me.
"you cannot get that loudness without outboard"
loudness with this openness and without that plugin loss of course.
very cool.
once again, i am a saxophonist and this is my first first hand professional mastering experience. and i am very impressed.

[blaugruen7]

Originally Posted by kosi

Where did you do it ?
Calyx or Dubplates & Mastering ?
Can you post some audio files ?

Emil Berliner Studios
their main company is in hannover and they have 2 mastering rooms in berlin.
its in the universal building.
dirk niemeyer is my man.
i cannot post files as described above. but you will get a test master from him for shure.
when you give him work, tell him you have his adress from me, maybe then i get some discount on my mastering.

[kosi]

Originally Posted by blaugruen7

Emil Berliner Studios
their main company is in hannover and they have 2 mastering rooms in berlin.
its in the universal building.
dirk niemeyer is my man.
i cannot post files as described above. but you will get a test master from him for shure.
when you give him work, tell him you have his adress from me, maybe then i get some discount on my mastering.

Sorry, I didn't get it first place (ahem Gearsluz reading while recording...) that he only showed it to you and you don't have any files at hand. Too bad.
But thanks for the tip, it's always good to have new possibilities !

[Infernal Device]

The first time I sat in on a mastering session was my first time having my production mastered at a real place. That is when Joe Lambert worked at Classic Sound, NY. I was friggin' floored at what he did, with NO computer monitors, just his ears.

I still go to him, now at Trutone (Times Square). God he is great. He told me what I could do to improve my mixes and tracking, and I must say, it has helped my mixes move into that elusive "high" end.

John Golden is another one. I mail him the stuff, and get it back sounding WAY better than I could ever imagine. When I get the master in the mail, I am more excited than the band!

I know what you mean brother!

[Bruce Keen]

Understanding the mastering process is key to getting your mixes right.
The more I understand about mastering the less work there is to do on my mixes.
I strive to get the mixes sounding exactly the way I want them.
What I've understood so far:
Needless to fight just for level. Get it sounding right.
Compression and limiting work better on subgroups than slamming the master.
Leave (head) room for the ME.
Monitoring is the most important thing in your gear. That includes your DA your speakers and your acoustics. Use reference Cd's to check for lies in your monitors.
When mixing an album always have previous mixes of previous tracks handy.
You make the ME's job easier if the album sound is coherent rather than trying to create the greatest thing for each track.
Along the way I also learnt from ME's that instead of grabbing the eq or comp and twiddle for the sake of it, write down what your going for, think about it objectively,
then do it fast. Sit back and listen. If it's not working try and figure out why without touching anything. Reset. Repeat. An ME explained this to me and after trying it out it makes so much sense. I now understand how a lot of experienced ME's are able to nail an eq in one shot. I've seen great mixers do that also and always thought it was incredible. It's quite simple. Think twice before doing it. I like the idea of writing down what you're going to do before touching the desk.
The idea being that once you make a move your perception of a sound changes. For instance once you've boosted the top end the low end might seem weak if you've overdone it and then you boost the low end at which point you mids are lacking. This wouldn't have happened if you had made a note before. Maybe a lot of people will disagree with this but it sure works for me.
Dabble with mastering yourself. Try and make a decent listening CD after letting your mixes settle a bit. With time I get a feel for knowing when a mix is done. Not that I ever succeed but it's getting better.
Apparently back in the early days of abbey road you had to do at least 2 years of mastering before you were allowed in a studio. What a great concept.

Cheers

[Empty Planet]

Just a word to the wise -- something often overlooked by folks in less-than-stellar rooms who compare their mixes to reference CDs:

Make sure the reference tune is in the same key as your tune.

If your listening environment hasn't been extremely well treated, different frequencies are going to pile up in different places in your room -- in other words, if your tune is in A and your reference tune is in E, and there happens to be a null at 110hz in the mixing "sweet spot," you're going to be piling a wild amount of noise into that imaginary hole to match what you're hearing from that tune in E.

I'm pretty smart, huh?

Nope.

This bit of all-too-obvious-once-you-think-about-it wisdom comes to you via an article I recently read in an old issue of an audio magazine. Thanks, Tape Op.


Cheers.

[Bruce Keen]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

Just a word to the wise -- something often overlooked by folks in less-than-stellar rooms who compare their mixes to reference CDs:

Make sure the reference tune is in the same key as your tune.

If your listening environment hasn't been extremely well treated, different frequencies are going to pile up in different places in your room -- in other words, if your tune is in A and your reference tune is in E, and there happens to be a null at 110hz in the mixing "sweet spot," you're going to be piling a wild amount of noise into that imaginary hole to match what you're hearing from that tune in E.

I'm pretty smart, huh?

Nope.

This bit of all-too-obvious-once-you-think-about-it wisdom comes to you via an article I recently read in an old issue of an audio magazine. Thanks, Tape Op.


Cheers.

Not quite sure if you're being ironic or not. I've never mixed a track that had only one fundemental. I know some exist but to reference to something that's in the same key doesn't make any sense to me. The kick might be above the bass or below. The bass line might be totally different. If you know your reference Cd's well (have listened to them in many environements) you should be able to apprehend the holes and bumps created by the room. I do appreciate the point made but getting a song in the same key will most likely not solve that problem.

[Empty Planet]

Some excellent points! But I have to tell ya, I'm keen on anything that'll make the process of mixing move ahead more expeditiously, and since I've begun to make it a point to know the changes (true, "key" is shorthand, but a good one I think, as it communicates the point about being conscious of the physical waves in the room) not only of the tune I'm working with but any tune on CD I may compare it to -- and I am so not at the place where I can give up my reference CDs! -- my mixing process is smoother and the results have been less subject to unpleasant surprises.

I'm delighted your method works for you. Really, I am. Guess there's more than one way to turn a trick, huh?

Cheers.